|
On August 25 2009 21:44 disciple wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2009 21:23 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 25 2009 21:21 disciple wrote:On August 25 2009 21:10 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 25 2009 21:09 monstar123 wrote:On August 25 2009 21:04 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Flash now, officially, has the highest winning rate of any Terran in any match up, and simultaneously has passed Jaedong up for highest overall win rate, just shy of 68%. All this on top of a +2300 elo and a significant 30 point elo lead over the next highest (Jaedong ofc). Kid's a monster. Take out the GOM. Take out GOM for Bisu and Jaedong (both of which bolster their stats nicely, Bisu would be below Flash on #1 elo of all time if you removed Gom, buddy. It's like your forget that GOM is where Bisu and Jaedong both snagged wins over Flash) and you get similar. High horse, you should get off of it. this was already discussed, bisu will lose no more than 11 points and still be all time #1 What? I remember that, at the time, Gom was removed and Flash became #1 again. The shitstorm happened, gom got reinstated, and Bisu retook #1. Oh well, Flash just has to 6-0 his next 3 wcg matches against Bisu and Jaedong and such and work his way to 2400 elo. 8) nothing like that happened, when gom was removed Bisu's ELO dropped to 2345, which was still more than flash. The "shitstorm" was weather or not special events such as Shinhan Masters, STX Masters and most important the Bisu vs Jaedong special match should be added. Besides GOM was not the major factor for KTY's record - WL was
Then the OP in this thread is a lie?
|
|
|
Next: FlaSh vs Bisu / Jaedong vs Kwanro.
Can't wait!
|
As a peace offering, I put this together to comfort the people who don't like Flash. I hope you like it:
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/58/itso
Anyway, I'm really looking forward to seeing Flash vs Bisu. I'd say they have about 50-50 odds against eachother right now. Remember their set in Season 2 of GOM? Best fucking PvT series I'd seen in ages. I love Flash and Bisu about equally, so I just want to see some epic games regardless of who wins.
Also I hope that whoever wins between Flash and Bisu goes on to win the entire WCG.
|
Russian Federation405 Posts
TwoToneTerran, you’re on TeamLiquid but overall statistics for JD is better than for Flash. 
|
On August 25 2009 21:50 nonduc wrote:TwoToneTerran, you’re on TeamLiquid but overall statistics for JD is better than for Flash.
You're quoting a different site with a different way of measuring things. That's only pertinent to that site, whereas here, TLPD is the pertinent one. :> It's common sense.
|
It's fairly obvious that Jaedong > Flash over the last year or so, regardless of whether one has 0.5% more or or 2% less win rate than the other.
It's harder to compare Flash and Bisu at the moment. That makes the upcoming match extra interesting. (With some luck WCG will bring us Flash vs Jaedong too.)
|
Holy shit! Flash literally fucking tore Effort a new hole.. This is why I like Flash. Just like JD, when he turns on God Mode he's a one fucking wrecking machine. JD and Flash needs to fuse together like Dragonball Z style and their 67 - 68% win rate will turn into 100% win rate.
|
The problem with the final match in WCG, is the fact that its totally irrelevant, both players are already qualified for the WCG, and its a bo3 only, so there is less incentive to practice and its mainly fanservice. Unless there is a large prize pool that I am unaware of, the quality of the games will be lower than he rest of the tourney by either finalist's standards. I remember Stork vs JD last year, where game 2 was a proxy 2 gate in the middle vs a 5pool, it was hillarious, even stork burst out laughing when he saw the lings.
|
lol
if flash would go for the super-kill that would be amazing. like that:
effort
bisu
yarnc (zvt monster)
jaedong
in general this wcg could make for far far better games than any sl this season:
flash vs effort
stork vs fantasy
flash vs bisu
flash vs yarnc (i still hope bisu wins, but i like flash aswell^^)
jaedong vs fantasy
jaedong vs flash
now, THAT is a nice tournament, not some fucking kwanro vs calm finals or 4 hite nooblets battling each other to a secured spot in the finals.....
|
Russian Federation405 Posts
On August 25 2009 21:52 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2009 21:50 nonduc wrote:TwoToneTerran, you’re on TeamLiquid but overall statistics for JD is better than for Flash. You're quoting a different site with a different way of measuring things. That's only pertinent to that site, whereas here, TLPD is the pertinent one. :> It's common sense.
Sorry, as for me common sens for statistics = to count all games of progamer vs progamer first of all. TLPD is just incomplete…
|
On August 25 2009 22:09 nonduc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2009 21:52 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 25 2009 21:50 nonduc wrote:TwoToneTerran, you’re on TeamLiquid but overall statistics for JD is better than for Flash. You're quoting a different site with a different way of measuring things. That's only pertinent to that site, whereas here, TLPD is the pertinent one. :> It's common sense. Sorry, as for me common sens for statistics = to count all games of progamer vs progamer first of all. TLPD is just incomplete…
That includes nonsensical stuff like gimmick and event tournaments, and quite possibly nearly irrelevant stuff like offline prelims -- might as well start ranking players up for beating other pros over Iccup. Should we really buff Savior for doing well in those special events, etc? TLPD is as complete as it should be. It has a definitive criteria and, by that criteria, Flash has scooted past Jaedong.
|
Russian Federation405 Posts
No, no, this is NOT ranking. This’s staistics for win/loss ratio.
|
On August 25 2009 22:13 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2009 22:09 nonduc wrote:On August 25 2009 21:52 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 25 2009 21:50 nonduc wrote:TwoToneTerran, you’re on TeamLiquid but overall statistics for JD is better than for Flash. You're quoting a different site with a different way of measuring things. That's only pertinent to that site, whereas here, TLPD is the pertinent one. :> It's common sense. Sorry, as for me common sens for statistics = to count all games of progamer vs progamer first of all. TLPD is just incomplete… That includes nonsensical stuff like gimmick and event tournaments, and quite possibly nearly irrelevant stuff like offline prelims -- might as well start ranking players up for beating other pros over Iccup. Should we really buff Savior for doing well in those special events, etc? TLPD is as complete as it should be. It has a definitive criteria and, by that criteria, Flash has scooted past Jaedong.
I'm sorry you seem to be missing the point here. To reiterate nonduc's argument: "Wahhhhhhhhh"
|
On August 25 2009 22:17 nonduc wrote:
No, no, this is NOT ranking. This’s staistics for win/loss ratio.
Yes, and for win/loss ratio, Flash beats Jaedong by TLPD criteria. How are you arguing this? You completely missed the point of my post, where those statistics are arbitrarily inflated by gimmick/pointless tournaments with no legitimate bearing on whether a progamer wins or loses. OSL/MSL/GOM/PL/WCG all have something to contribute, whereas ANY progamer vs progamer match up is suspect.
|
Russian Federation405 Posts
TwoToneTerran, I’m sorry for my bad English. I’ll try to explain.
TLPD ins’t show for you overall statistics for total games — it’s just show selected statistics. And this selection is just non-evident — because one special event is counted (Special Match JD 3 vs 2 Bisu) but another isn’t (SPL All Stars 2008 incl. JD 0 vs 1 Flash). That’s why I prefer to use overall statistics — this’s pretty common for koreans and you can see this kind of statistics in GOM players info before 1st game for example. In this case statistics from Yogosu.Com isn’t 100% correct but it’s better than TLPD by now (compare H2H JD vs Flash please).
|
Arguing over whether JD or Flash has the highest career winning % is kind of silly at any rate. I'm a Flash fan, but even I can admit that Jaedong has won more games that matter in the past few months.
In my view Jaedong is pretty much the undisputed #1 in Starcraft right now, and #2 is what us hopeless (Bisu/Flash/Fantasy) fanboys are fighting over.
What IS undeniable is that Flash has been a FUCKING BEAST this month, and with his TvZ apparently fixed, he's going to be scary as hell in the next starleagues.
|
On August 25 2009 22:33 nonduc wrote:
TwoToneTerran, I’m sorry for my bad English. I’ll try to explain.
TLPD ins’t show for you overall statistics for total games — it’s just show selected statistics. And this selection is just non-evident — because one special event is counted (Special Match JD 3 vs 2 Bisu) but another isn’t (SPL All Stars 2008 incl. JD 0 vs 1 Flash). That’s why I prefer to use overall statistics — this’s pretty common for koreans and you can see this kind of statistics in GOM players info before 1st game for example. In this case statistics from Yogosu.Com isn’t 100% correct but it’s better than TLPD by now (compare H2H JD vs Flash please).
My point was is that the vast majority of TL uses TLPD, and will continue to, and it is the standard for this site. By that standard, Flash is ahead. If I ever go to Yogosu and talk about this I'll be happy to say Jaedong has a better career rate than Flash, but that isn't the case here. Why even have a TLPD if you're just going to dismiss it with other sites that aren't necessarily better, but just use a different criteria? (I mean seriously All Stars is not worth mentioning for a real career record. The gom special match is an entirely different story, anyhow)
|
Guys, let's stop arguing please.. this is getting nowhere. TT_TT In the end, it's fair to say that both has monsterous career win rate and they're pretty much similar. Sometimes Jaedong is higher, sometimes Flash is higher. Both are my favorite players anyway. I'm almost certain that 5 - 6 months from now (of course I could be wrong but given how consistent they are), both will probably have similar win-loss % by then still. So why don't we all just hold each other's hand, jump in circles, and get along. Lol! j/k :p
|
Russian Federation405 Posts
IMHO your point is wrong: this’s no question about preferences of majority of TL users but it’s 1) about completness of overall statistics and 2) for evidence of criteria for selected statistics.
Total statistics in TPLD isn’t comlete and it’s not shown. And selection isn’t evident — there’re many special events and tournaments with best players in it but these events not counted but GOM2 Special Match 2009 is counted…
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
