EPTI've heard amateurs on these forums recommend guardians, so why is it that they perform so badly in professional games? And why do progamers keep using them?
[Q] Why do progamers use guardians?
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Sulunais
Korea (South)34 Posts
I've heard amateurs on these forums recommend guardians, so why is it that they perform so badly in professional games? And why do progamers keep using them? | ||
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icystorage
Jollibee19346 Posts
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
"depends on the players" if jaedong makes guardians they probably won't perform badly. | ||
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JMave
Singapore1803 Posts
On August 13 2009 14:02 icystorage wrote: i think leftover muta from harrass are the only ones turned to guards, but i could be wrong This is mostly true. | ||
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De4ngus
United States6533 Posts
On August 13 2009 14:03 travis wrote: You could replace guardians with any unit here, and I would reply the same. "depends on the players" if jaedong makes guardians they probably won't perform badly. Actually, Jaedong said in an interview a while ago, that he doesn't like to use guardians because every time he does, he loses, lol. | ||
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General_Han
Australia6 Posts
But as mentioned above, leftover mutalisks do tend to get morphed into guardians for some additional harassing power. | ||
cgrinker
United States3824 Posts
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Failsafe
United States1298 Posts
2 hatch muta is a low econ strategy, but due to the double gas, you do have an enormous potential income of vespene. since you haven't got as many minerals as you might like to compliment the enormous vespene income (and because the map has very few routes for ground forces) guardians are an extremely tempting choice. on outsider, typically guardian use is intended defensively as their name might suggest, but in other instances it tends to be used more aggressively (and is typically designed as a surprise) | ||
Last Romantic
United States20661 Posts
On August 13 2009 14:07 De4ngus wrote: Actually, Jaedong said in an interview a while ago, that he doesn't like to use guardians because every time he does, he loses, lol. This is true. Curiously, Jaedong has only won one or two games out of the perhaps dozen or so in which he opts for guardians. | ||
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Leunal
United States127 Posts
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sixghost
United States2096 Posts
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lazz
Australia3119 Posts
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
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Xenocide_Knight
Korea (South)2625 Posts
On August 13 2009 14:03 travis wrote: You could replace guardians with any unit here, and I would reply the same. "depends on the players" if jaedong makes guardians they probably won't perform badly. No jaedong guardians blow | ||
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DIMJkE
Bulgaria425 Posts
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Metaspace
Austria670 Posts
Since I realized that, I only use guardians when they can be cliffed to attack workers at an expo. You can be sure that they will be quickly dealt with by a decent player anyway, but this way I feel you get your resources worth back in disruption of the opponent economy. It also serves to draw his attention, while I attack another expo with my main army, or can take my time to nicely flank his. Usually I only use leftover mutas, just in cases where an expo is particularely exposed, I somtimes explicitly replenish initial muta numbers to, say, 8 or 10. When I upgrade air attack during the muta phase, the guardian option is slightly more favorable (gets you more worker kills, or perhaps even some building kills). | ||
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Duckvillelol
Australia1240 Posts
You go back and look at carrier glory days, during the GSI on gom, just about every toss would start churning out carriers on katrina and maybe othello, then they started getting phased out after a certain young man decided 'g' spam was the way to victory. So imo it's mainly the map that decides the use of guardians (or x unit), and the reason the fail in high level gaming is because of the 'relatively' easy countering, and they keep using them still because... leftover muta's as mentioned already. | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On August 13 2009 14:20 cgrinker wrote: Guardian Hydra used to be a standard play until SK Terran an then they were just big Irradiate clouds to break your Hydralisks Hehe kinda true  Guard/Hydra was during 1.07, then a whole bunch of shit happened, then SK Terran broke out in 2004  Guardians are good against a Terran than goes Heavy tank (ie 3fac/2fac tank) and were a rather standard counter - THEN SK Terran broke out - which raped it ridiculously. The reason why Guardians were a better choice when there are a large number of tanks is because it means the Terran is using all his gas on Vessels, so you dont have to worry about though. Plus, Ultras take a shitload of damage from Tanks - so its better to have long ranged guardians to counter the tanks. Since Terran's rarely go heavy tank, guardian use is pretty map dependent and situation dependent. For instance, on a map like Outsider the easy access to a double gas expo (the island) and the strength of muta harass usually goes well with a Guardian strat. The cliffs and semi-island style of the map also support the use of guardians. Against Protoss, their use is much more limited. But they can be annoying when you least expect them. I think they are quite good when Protoss goes reavers (since it means they aren't building as many templar ie less storm) but the jury is still out on that one. For an example of this watch Calm vs Best game 3 on Destination from their recent WCG match. | ||
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NoobSkills
United States1598 Posts
Zerg: Scourge Muta Terran: Vessels Marines(if they're out in the open) Wraiths and Valkyries Toss: Corsair HT-Storm and Goons I've mainly seen them used in TvP after muta harass if terran is in some sort of a contain by lurkers and they're guarding their natural expansion. They're good then because you can stop terran from mining in that base and snipe vessels with scourges if they come to irradiate the guardians. Easy way to put terran back to one base. But yes mostly they're weak and can be taken down by any player with ease. | ||
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MoRe_mInErAls
Canada1210 Posts
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