EPTThanks and high five!
^5 (-_-)/''/
! Day[9] Podcasts E14: TvZ on Heartbreak Ridge - Page 37
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StalkerSC
Canada378 Posts
Thanks and high five! ^5 (-_-)/''/ | ||
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wiesel
Germany727 Posts
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deverlight
Korea (South)463 Posts
I wish there was a Day[9] podcast for every SC question I could possibly have  These are great! Thanks man! | ||
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Revabug
United Kingdom147 Posts
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Revabug
United Kingdom147 Posts
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AtlaS
United States1001 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On August 16 2009 23:22 Revabug wrote: Am I 'wrongly avoiding' because I go 3 hatch spire -> 5 hatch lurkerling? My Hydralisk micro is weak and I'm way more confident with lurkers, but no one does it and I get told to go Hydras all the time :p The problem of course is that first of all, your lurkers are too late like that to stop any of the timing pushes and you need to get a den after like 4th hatchery and have worse economy. Second, it's pretty much a lot more defensive and lets P take their third almost uncontested, and it only works well against ground type of play. Mass corsairs get very troublesome and you'll end up having to switch to Hydras anyway, especially against something like Sair reaver. It works fine if the opponent is going for a normal ground-heavy build and you can tech quickly to defilers and ultras, but it's far less adaptable. | ||
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Revabug
United Kingdom147 Posts
Except a no stargate +1 Zealot rush (which you respond with Mutalisks) Lurkers first holds off almost all builds like 4 Gate 2 Archon push. It's also quite effective if the P takes their third fast - if you watch some recent ZvP with Effort or Jaedong, they completely destroy the Protosses that take their third quickly. There's a pretty big timing where P won't have obs and you can do some damage, by denying their third or even setting a contain and sniping the forge/gateway. Especially when it looks no different from 5 Hatch Hydra. Yes, vs mass corsair it agreeably loses but you'll see if he's consistently pumping scourge with your scouting scourge anyway so it's not hard to start massing up speed hydras in response. The real problem I have is coordinating attacks; with so many lings it's hard to get a good flank with all your units attacking. Though this is due to mechanics which can be improved I'm asking is if I should be choosing Hydras over Lurkers simply because it's to coordinate and is used more commonly, or should I persist with the 'weaker' strategy | ||
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Neon_Monkey
United States270 Posts
On August 17 2009 00:12 Revabug wrote: I'm confused, most of what you said is the complete opposite! I often go 3 hatch spire, 2 hatches, den, 2nd gas, evo Except a no stargate +1 Zealot rush (which you respond with Mutalisks) Lurkers first holds off almost all builds like 4 Gate 2 Archon push. It's also quite effective if the P takes their third fast - if you watch some recent ZvP with Effort or Jaedong, they completely destroy the Protosses that take their third quickly. There's a pretty big timing where P won't have obs and you can do some damage, by denying their third or even setting a contain and sniping the forge/gateway. Especially when it looks no different from 5 Hatch Hydra. Yes, vs mass corsair it agreeably loses but you'll see if he's consistently pumping scourge with your scouting scourge anyway so it's not hard to start massing up speed hydras in response. The real problem I have is coordinating attacks; with so many lings it's hard to get a good flank with all your units attacking. Though this is due to mechanics which can be improved I'm asking is if I should be choosing Hydras over Lurkers simply because it's to coordinate and is used more commonly, or should I persist with the 'weaker' strategy Progamers open 3 hatch spire 5 hatch lurker a lot. They mostly do it on heartbreak ridge but sometimes on other maps as well. A lot of the time they transition into hydralurker afterwards though, which is my build of choice atm. Just make sure to constantly scout with your first scourges; if they continue pumping sairs after their first you will need a spore at your 3rd/nat. Continueing into lurkerling is viable too. But usually going lurkling requires some turtling with a rather fast hive with a well timed expo to a 4th to survive into the late game, which never really fit my playstyle. And if you do attempt to move out before swarm you can very easily throw the game away if you don't get a lurkling flank just right, which is the main reason I don't do it much anymore. It is a pretty unpopular popular strategy, but not really "weaker". Hydralurker is probably a more solid strat to learn, unless you always play on very large maps. | ||
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MutaDoom
Canada1163 Posts
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captainwaffles
United States1050 Posts
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anderoo
Canada1876 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
On August 17 2009 07:01 anderoo wrote: sick, a new podcast! ![[image loading]](http://www.tacron21.surfor.navy.mil/Command%20Pictures/Detachment%20Two/Command%20PT%20Edwards%20SideStep.JPG) | ||
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Strayline
United States330 Posts
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Chef
10810 Posts
Much thanks.In the latest episode, though, you talk about sidestepping. It's all sound and true, but I dunno if that's the best way to put it. You call it avoiding the strengths of your opponents build, but aren't you really just punishing an opponent for concentrating his forces too much? Like Tsunami said, If my opponent builds many turrets, that in itself if a victory (esp. if you didn't make many muta/any at all). You make your opponent waste money defending from attacks you won't make, or waste money making an attack you can easily thwart/sacrifice. In the end, it all means the same, but I like to think its much easier to value it if you think of it as punishing your opponent, rather than avoiding his strength. Like Sun Tzu said, if your opponent defends only his front, attack his rear. IE: Attack him where he's weak, not where he's strong, even if we're talking in terms of early game/mid game/late game timing. Still, it's a good shake to anyone who is playing mindlessly in their own head and not really thinking about what their opponent is trying to do. Lots of players get stuck for a long time before they realise they're not the only player in the game. | ||
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BarneyEX
Malaysia98 Posts
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Dragonblood21
United States139 Posts
Looking forward to future podcasts. | ||
Day[9]
United States7366 Posts
On August 17 2009 13:26 BarneyEX wrote: Day[9], can you try making a podcast on Terran build orders.Most of your podcast focuses solely on zerg play. Keep up the good work though. only three focus solely on zerg lol [edit] my bad, only two do | ||
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NeVeR
1352 Posts
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
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