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On May 31 2009 21:42 Hundredth wrote:
I really think you should cover who these advanced topics at aimed at.
D/D+/even C- players should probably be focusing on standard builds and improving their mechanics from what I've seen, and you're constantly telling people to 'find their own styles and builds'
Would you really advise these ways of thinking for low level players? I'm not saying it's wrong but it seems like a much slower way for a low level player to improve.
wtf?
This is just a way of undestanding existing build orders. The same thinking for creating a build order is used in understanding someone elses.
Applying these steps to jaedong vs mind on othello, you can simply map out game possiblities , timings and triggers and goals and plans in the sam way you would for your own build.
Just copy food related things is bad, understanding the concepts behind your build will make your build stronger and more fluid.
Playing smart and mechanical is better then playing just smart or just mechanically or neither!
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I'm not talking about understanding the build orders you're using as is pretty evident in what I typed.. I'm asking whether people at low levels should really be trying to make their own styles when their mechanics and knowledge aren't up to scratch. As I said, it just doesn't seem as effective as practicing standard 'cookie-cutter builds' until you're at a decent level and understand why the build is standard.
Seriously you missed the actual question.
Playing smart and mechanical is better then playing just smart or just mechanically or neither!
Well yeah
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On May 31 2009 23:57 Hundredth wrote:I'm not talking about understanding the build orders you're using as is pretty evident in what I typed.. I'm asking whether people at low levels should really be trying to make their own styles when their mechanics and knowledge aren't up to scratch. As I said, it just doesn't seem as effective as practicing standard 'cookie-cutter builds' until you're at a decent level and understand why the build is standard. Seriously you missed the actual question. Show nested quote +Playing smart and mechanical is better then playing just smart or just mechanically or neither! Well yeah
Its a game; some people get bored of doing cookie-cutter builds over and over. Most people will never improve beyond D+ (not because they are inherently unable, but simply a fact of life) and some just want to find the most fun options for themselves.
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On May 31 2009 22:58 Hundredth wrote:
It was a typo in that I said 'rather than mechanics', I meant 'improving on mechanics' but I think you assumed that.
Anyway, what I said is learning 1 build order seems more efficient. You got to D+ then found it hard then dropped it? That's what it sounds like to me.. and of course you'll find things hard but overcoming them is improvement.
One more time. I dropped the standard build for every game. It was losing me matchups and i still practice it. The difference is your not going to get to past c+ unless you have crazy macro micro. People know how to counter your builds and it will become increasingly difficult to stop their scouting. If you can manage it go for it. But you'll hit a block and to beat iccup'ers who do "crazy shit" you have to adjust your game or vastly improve your ability beyond theirs.
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VERY NICE!!!1 ^___^ major fan!
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On May 31 2009 21:42 Hundredth wrote:
I really think you should cover who these advanced topics at aimed at.
D/D+/even C- players should probably be focusing on standard builds rather than focusing on mechanics from what I've seen, and you're constantly telling people to 'find their own styles and builds'
Would you really advise these ways of thinking for low level players? I'm not saying it's wrong but it seems like a much slower way for a low level player to improve.
I think this is a great question that I'm sure many are wondering as well.
I believe that my advice is highly applicable to players of all skill levels (with the exception of the "building triggers and the imaginary player." That's more for players who are pretty comfortable in all matchups and are trying to get to that "next step").
In regards to your question, this is what I think a player should do:
Pick ONE playstyle, in ONE matchup, on ONE map. (ie, PvZ, early expand corsair style on destination). Then, try to use all the advice I'm providing to hone that one playstyle. You'll be able to get from D to C in probably 2-3 months (as was the case w/ a friend of mine). When you move on to other playstyles or other matchups, not only are your mechanics solid, but also your mindset is in the right place.
I advice people to "find their own styles and builds" because this allows players to have significantly more fun AND have a MUCH deeper understanding of their own play. I'm not necessarily saying to do something nonstandard, but rather a player should try to adjust a standard build to his liking, modifying or even throwing away certain portions of it, instead of trying to "figure out the standard, right thing to do is."
In a sense, I think starcraft is an incredibly fun game and a wonderful exercise in creative problem solving. I HATE the periods when I've been mentally stuck because I didn't quite know how to think. My primary goal is to provide tools to make sure people never feel stuck, that they always see a clear path towards improvement, that they approach starcraft with the right mindset regardless of their skill level!!!
hope that answered your question!!!
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Day, you HAVE to enter this into the guide competition for SC2 beta keys, then give it to me for suggesting it! I know you want to, so just PM me the key. This'll win for sure, ezpz.
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keep this up! i love you.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
On March 16 2009 20:56 Scaramanga wrote:
<3 day[9]
:D
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The links won't open for me 
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I understand and love these podcast. One question I have is what is considered a winning strategy? I know that Day[9] talks about making a winning move before the game. As a Protoss player, I always try to just mass out on 11+ gates or mass out in arbiters for the goals of my BO against a Terran player. However, I'm pretty sure there are multiple ways to win than mentioned. Can you do a podcast about what if your winning strategy doesn't meet the requirements to win?
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On June 03 2009 08:53 Sets wrote:
I understand and love these podcast. One question I have is what is considered a winning strategy? I know that Day[9] talks about making a winning move before the game. As a Protoss player, I always try to just mass out on 11+ gates or mass out in arbiters for the goals of my BO against a Terran player. However, I'm pretty sure there are multiple ways to win than mentioned. Can you do a podcast about what if your winning strategy doesn't meet the requirements to win?
i'm a bit confused
i'm not sure i've ever used the term "winning strategy" as a strict definition. could you point to the time/cast where i use this term so i can clarify?
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I think he may be referring to the part about the differences in strategies aimed toward winning a game and strategies aimed toward strictly gaining an advantage in the winning with an advantage cast.... that is just the closest thing I can think of in your casts....
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true mathmatician speak.
logical and concise, hole free.
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Lol here's me again posting after 1 day(previous post is a day old). I've been planning my BO for my match ups, they're all on Destination.
PvZ:
Sair - AirControl
then DT/Reaver pwn harass
Move to 3 base, take the island
Move up to goon/temp/reaver break
ZvT:
Rape initial push with hydras! >:3
Power to 3 base, get upgrade (would force tank heavy)
Rush guardian then expand island (profit!)
PvT:
Get a goon/zeal early game to pressure his FE build abit
Expo 3rd, block w/ pylon, get like 15 gateways. Use shuttles with DTs in them
Arbitor
(goal is to use 2 shuttles nazgul style :D)
ZvP:
3 Hatch hydra (fast-ish, forces cannon)
Lurk Contain
Get evos upgrading, ultra ling, harass with lurkers on the back of his mineral line to keep him busy
Drops. Keep making lurkers for lategame if no reaver present.
I did pretty well(I played maybe 4ZvP and 1TvZ(we both went random))! I think overall the message is "To Have a Plan" because people do better when they have a plan. My problem before was I always try to come up with strategies on the spot, although sometimes it works, without a definite map-oriented goal, my mechanis/multitasks suffers and I barely go over 120 apm.
Today with a definite plan, even my zerg hits 140 and game felt great.
:D
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On June 04 2009 06:19 evanthebouncy! wrote:
Rush guardian then expand island (profit!)
Huh? There is no island on Destination.
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Congradulations on your planning.
I do think you might want to revise (all) your zerg builds.
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On June 04 2009 12:33 AttackZerg wrote:
Congradulations on your planning.
I do think you might want to revise (all) your zerg builds.
haha yeah They probably sucks bad
but I'm getting the feeling even a bad plan is better than no plan at all.
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On June 05 2009 06:31 evanthebouncy! wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2009 12:33 AttackZerg wrote:
Congradulations on your planning.
I do think you might want to revise (all) your zerg builds. haha yeah They probably sucks bad but I'm getting the feeling even a bad plan is better than no plan at all.
yeah going 3 hatch hydra to force cannons wont pay off for your economy. May as well go for a 5 hatch lurker contain since its just as easy to get the contain up.
raping initial push with hydras zvt can work so long as your opponent doesnt scout den before lair.
And then again you can just rape an initial push by having 2 sunkens and some lings, or get 9 mutas.
also im unaware of an island on desti??!?!
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On June 05 2009 06:31 evanthebouncy! wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2009 12:33 AttackZerg wrote:
Congradulations on your planning.
I do think you might want to revise (all) your zerg builds. haha yeah They probably sucks bad but I'm getting the feeling even a bad plan is better than no plan at all.
You are undoubtably correct in that.
Another look at it is that I can get to b- incorperating queens into every single game I play as a counter to templar/muta/tanks/marines and if I have a good feeling for when and where then I'm going to be way better at doing it then if I say "Ok queens are teh l33t, I'll make them".
Now are queens the best option most of the time? No but they can be used to win if they fall into my game plan, even if my gameplan is worse.
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EPT
