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! [G]The art of TvZ Han Bang-1 Vessel 3 Tank Timing - Page 3

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
March 13 2009 00:49 GMT
#41
On March 13 2009 06:13 infinity21 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2009 06:05 Zoler wrote:
Sooo... so far I've been playing with Artosis TvZ build. Is this one better? Which would you better players recommend?

Pros/cons etc.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=86770&currentpage=32 scroll down a bit


Yes I made a pretty long post about the differences.

Also petzerglings post is correct.

But the main difference with petzerglings strat and my strat is that petzerglings strategy is simply better if you scout him on the first try.

Both builds tech up very fast, but petzerglings build have an earlier expansion.
With that earlier expansion his eco will be good enough to do my build but with 3 rax instead of 2.
The timings will only be slightly delayed, not much at all, 10 seconds or so (unless you have to make a bunker then it might add a couple of more seconds).

So this build is actually better on most 2player maps, and if you're good enough you should make this build as standard on all maps if you're able to scout him on the first try.

My build is valid on most maps and even if you dont scout him on the first try, thats why i suggested the lesser players to practice my build.

If you're good enough to switch things up, go between this build and my build every game depending on the scout as your standard build.

Because its pretty much the same build, one doing 15cc the other 18cc thus one can afford 3rax and the other 2 rax.


The reason why artosis build gets +1 and range before factory is only because his build includes academy before second barrack.

According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
mastuh
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States64 Posts
March 14 2009 02:49 GMT
#42
I have a question about the the timing attack. If the zerg went for a 3 hatch lurker build and omitted mutalisks completely, do you still push out at the same time? do you move out earlier?
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
March 14 2009 03:21 GMT
#43
On March 14 2009 11:49 mastuh wrote:
I have a question about the the timing attack. If the zerg went for a 3 hatch lurker build and omitted mutalisks completely, do you still push out at the same time? do you move out earlier?


I may be wrong now, Stylish and the other can tell you if its wrong later but anyway:

Yes you move out at the same timing I think, you can move out before vessel sometimes and rely on scans but you have to know what you're doing.
Lim Yo Hwan forever!
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
March 14 2009 03:22 GMT
#44
depends on how fast theyre going hive, how many drones/expos theyre taking, and how many hatches they have.

if they took another gas after their third and/or added alot of hatcheries and show no indication of going hive then you sit and wait and build up your tank/vessel count, if they seem really intent on just massing lair tech its good to add a 2nd factory. you dont need to attack until theyre going hive unless they over extend themselves economically like taking their 3rd and 4th gasses immediately upon lurkers finishing.

if they go normal 3 gas hive then yes you should push at your first vessel.

if they go really really fast hive, like off 2 gas, then you arent gonna push at all. in that situation go mines as fast as possible (no tanks at all) while going 2 port vessel, and get a dropship as soon as your first control tower completes. mix in a healthy amount of firebats with your army. drop his main while sitting behind mines and wait for your vessel count to kick in. continue drop harass until he gets scourge. not heavy drop harass, just 1 ship to keep his attention away from swarm pushing your choke. constant vultures for mines.
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-14 03:49:09
March 14 2009 03:46 GMT
#45
Very good post IdrA! Thx for the insight in how to stop 2 gas hive, I've never really faced it much (yet) so it's good to know! How common would you say it is? Doesn't seem very common to me since I've almost never played against it.

Btw wouldn't it be good to just sit outside their natural as they wait for defilers or something? I mean you don't need to siege just stand there and wait for swarm - then pull back. Or will the defilers be out before the time for the push comes?
Lim Yo Hwan forever!
mastuh
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States64 Posts
March 14 2009 04:27 GMT
#46
Wow, thanks a whole bunch idra for your pro post.
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
March 14 2009 06:16 GMT
#47
On March 14 2009 12:46 Zoler wrote:
Very good post IdrA! Thx for the insight in how to stop 2 gas hive, I've never really faced it much (yet) so it's good to know! How common would you say it is? Doesn't seem very common to me since I've almost never played against it.

Btw wouldn't it be good to just sit outside their natural as they wait for defilers or something? I mean you don't need to siege just stand there and wait for swarm - then pull back. Or will the defilers be out before the time for the push comes?

its not common, its an allin thats not very hard to stop as long as you see it in time.

in most situations you wont be able to push his lurkers back before defilers are out, though that depends on your opening build and the map, and how early you recognized he was opening lurker.
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
petzergling
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
538 Posts
March 16 2009 20:43 GMT
#48
Nice info about the non muta timing, I added it in the OP.
I have a question against 2 gas hive build, you say cut tanks competely and go for vultures+2 port vessel, but I feel like this doesn't get the lurkers out of my face. I played a guy who did 3 hatch and right as his lair tech came in he massively cut drones and just massed up a huge amount of lurkers and lings and sat around waiting for me to push. Naturally I didn't and just built up and went for mines and vessels, the mines helped a ton in the initial push but eventually the mines and vessels ran dry... once they get 1 swarm up with 2 lurkers you have to completely evacuate your natural expo. If you go for mines and heavy vessels against 2 gas hive how do you eventually get out and kill him if your drops get stopped?
Mod Edit: Don't bold your entire post
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
March 19 2009 06:12 GMT
#49
well if your drops get stopped entirely you just have to wait to build up enough vessels that you can irad most of the lurkers and then break out with bats. but really he should have a very difficult time dealing with the drops off of a hardcore defiler rush.
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
logicgosu
Profile Joined March 2009
18 Posts
March 19 2009 09:26 GMT
#50
This is a really good guide. I've tried a lot of build orders for tvz but i cant seem to get the right timings of when to push or what type of counter i will do depending on the zerg's build and i think this guide will help a lot.
Louder
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States2276 Posts
March 19 2009 16:17 GMT
#51
Who is petzergling? Just wondering.
petzergling
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
538 Posts
March 19 2009 18:29 GMT
#52
On March 20 2009 01:17 Louder wrote:
Who is petzergling? Just wondering.

some nerd
Mod Edit: Don't bold your entire post
LaLaBye
Profile Joined February 2009
United States90 Posts
March 30 2009 13:22 GMT
#53
On March 20 2009 03:29 petzergling wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2009 01:17 Louder wrote:
Who is petzergling? Just wondering.

some nerd

Haha. Anyway thanks so much for posting this when I wanted to print out the other one and it was gone I was like and all depressed because had I have printed it sooner >.<

But now its up and I thank you :D
What do you mean the LOSER has to say GG?
omninmo
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
2349 Posts
April 13 2009 06:42 GMT
#54
sick. Might i suggest a line item list build order for convenience sake. The explanations are of course graciously appreciated but i also want an easily referenced list for the standard 3 hatch build. Thanks again
omninmo
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
2349 Posts
April 13 2009 06:45 GMT
#55
sick. Might i suggest a line item list build order for convenience sake. The explanations are of course graciously appreciated but i also want an easily referenced list for the standard 3 hatch build. Thanks again
omninmo
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
2349 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-13 11:46:13
April 13 2009 06:49 GMT
#56
oops. double post cut me some slack. i was using my phone to post this
404.Nintu
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Canada1723 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-13 07:16:34
April 13 2009 07:16 GMT
#57
sick. Might i suggest a line item list build order for convenience sake. The explanations are of course graciously appreciated but i also want an easily referenced list for the standard 3 hatch build. Thanks again

edit: nevermind, I thought this was a game.
"So, then did the American yum-yum clown monkey also represent the FCC?"
Rainbow
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States249 Posts
April 15 2009 23:57 GMT
#58
This scout allows you do get to the natural expansion of the closest possible base of your opponent before your first supply depot.



Forgive me if I'm being a noob, but shouldn't it be: "This scout allows you to get to the natural expansion of the closest possible base of you opponent before your second supply depot." ?

Also, thanks so much for re-posting this, I forgot to save it last time (:
petzergling
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
538 Posts
April 16 2009 14:21 GMT
#59
thanks fixed error
Mod Edit: Don't bold your entire post
Reason
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United Kingdom2770 Posts
April 16 2009 15:16 GMT
#60
I love how the double post became a triple post once the apology was added.
*facepalm* ?
Speak properly, and in as few words as you can, but always plainly; for the end of speech is not ostentation, but to be understood.
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