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Yes I made a pretty long post about the differences.
Also petzerglings post is correct.
But the main difference with petzerglings strat and my strat is that petzerglings strategy is simply better if you scout him on the first try.
Both builds tech up very fast, but petzerglings build have an earlier expansion.
With that earlier expansion his eco will be good enough to do my build but with 3 rax instead of 2.
The timings will only be slightly delayed, not much at all, 10 seconds or so (unless you have to make a bunker then it might add a couple of more seconds).
So this build is actually better on most 2player maps, and if you're good enough you should make this build as standard on all maps if you're able to scout him on the first try.
My build is valid on most maps and even if you dont scout him on the first try, thats why i suggested the lesser players to practice my build.
If you're good enough to switch things up, go between this build and my build every game depending on the scout as your standard build.
Because its pretty much the same build, one doing 15cc the other 18cc thus one can afford 3rax and the other 2 rax.
The reason why artosis build gets +1 and range before factory is only because his build includes academy before second barrack.
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I have a question about the the timing attack. If the zerg went for a 3 hatch lurker build and omitted mutalisks completely, do you still push out at the same time? do you move out earlier?
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On March 14 2009 11:49 mastuh wrote:
I have a question about the the timing attack. If the zerg went for a 3 hatch lurker build and omitted mutalisks completely, do you still push out at the same time? do you move out earlier?
I may be wrong now, Stylish and the other can tell you if its wrong later but anyway:
Yes you move out at the same timing I think, you can move out before vessel sometimes and rely on scans but you have to know what you're doing.
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depends on how fast theyre going hive, how many drones/expos theyre taking, and how many hatches they have.
if they took another gas after their third and/or added alot of hatcheries and show no indication of going hive then you sit and wait and build up your tank/vessel count, if they seem really intent on just massing lair tech its good to add a 2nd factory. you dont need to attack until theyre going hive unless they over extend themselves economically like taking their 3rd and 4th gasses immediately upon lurkers finishing.
if they go normal 3 gas hive then yes you should push at your first vessel.
if they go really really fast hive, like off 2 gas, then you arent gonna push at all. in that situation go mines as fast as possible (no tanks at all) while going 2 port vessel, and get a dropship as soon as your first control tower completes. mix in a healthy amount of firebats with your army. drop his main while sitting behind mines and wait for your vessel count to kick in. continue drop harass until he gets scourge. not heavy drop harass, just 1 ship to keep his attention away from swarm pushing your choke. constant vultures for mines.
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Very good post IdrA! Thx for the insight in how to stop 2 gas hive, I've never really faced it much (yet) so it's good to know! How common would you say it is? Doesn't seem very common to me since I've almost never played against it.
Btw wouldn't it be good to just sit outside their natural as they wait for defilers or something? I mean you don't need to siege just stand there and wait for swarm - then pull back. Or will the defilers be out before the time for the push comes?
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Wow, thanks a whole bunch idra for your pro post.
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On March 14 2009 12:46 Zoler wrote:
Very good post IdrA! Thx for the insight in how to stop 2 gas hive, I've never really faced it much (yet) so it's good to know! How common would you say it is? Doesn't seem very common to me since I've almost never played against it.
Btw wouldn't it be good to just sit outside their natural as they wait for defilers or something? I mean you don't need to siege just stand there and wait for swarm - then pull back. Or will the defilers be out before the time for the push comes?
its not common, its an allin thats not very hard to stop as long as you see it in time.
in most situations you wont be able to push his lurkers back before defilers are out, though that depends on your opening build and the map, and how early you recognized he was opening lurker.
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Nice info about the non muta timing, I added it in the OP.
I have a question against 2 gas hive build, you say cut tanks competely and go for vultures+2 port vessel, but I feel like this doesn't get the lurkers out of my face. I played a guy who did 3 hatch and right as his lair tech came in he massively cut drones and just massed up a huge amount of lurkers and lings and sat around waiting for me to push. Naturally I didn't and just built up and went for mines and vessels, the mines helped a ton in the initial push but eventually the mines and vessels ran dry... once they get 1 swarm up with 2 lurkers you have to completely evacuate your natural expo. If you go for mines and heavy vessels against 2 gas hive how do you eventually get out and kill him if your drops get stopped?
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well if your drops get stopped entirely you just have to wait to build up enough vessels that you can irad most of the lurkers and then break out with bats. but really he should have a very difficult time dealing with the drops off of a hardcore defiler rush.
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This is a really good guide. I've tried a lot of build orders for tvz but i cant seem to get the right timings of when to push or what type of counter i will do depending on the zerg's build and i think this guide will help a lot.
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Who is petzergling? Just wondering.
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On March 20 2009 01:17 Louder wrote:
Who is petzergling? Just wondering.
some nerd
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sick. Might i suggest a line item list build order for convenience sake. The explanations are of course graciously appreciated but i also want an easily referenced list for the standard 3 hatch build. Thanks again
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sick. Might i suggest a line item list build order for convenience sake. The explanations are of course graciously appreciated but i also want an easily referenced list for the standard 3 hatch build. Thanks again
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oops. double post cut me some slack. i was using my phone to post this
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sick. Might i suggest a line item list build order for convenience sake. The explanations are of course graciously appreciated but i also want an easily referenced list for the standard 3 hatch build. Thanks again
edit: nevermind, I thought this was a game.
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This scout allows you do get to the natural expansion of the closest possible base of your opponent before your first supply depot.
Forgive me if I'm being a noob, but shouldn't it be: "This scout allows you to get to the natural expansion of the closest possible base of you opponent before your second supply depot." ?
Also, thanks so much for re-posting this, I forgot to save it last time (:
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I love how the double post became a triple post once the apology was added.
*facepalm* ?
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EPT
