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4 turrets aint shit to a good muta user, they will die without killing a single muta
turrets buy time for marines, they are not the attacking force
if i feel i am facing a really good zerg i just make an extra bunker with 3-4 turrets, it works wonders, and requires no effort
nobody plays SK terran passively, that's stupid and it's how you lose with it; sk terran is about aggression, not being contained, taking the fight to the zerg, keeping swarm in the middle
getting 12 vessels is not autowin, nobody can even use 12 vessels except Nada and 450 apm perfect mechanic pros, guaranteed you're gonna fuck up and not use all your energy and get scourged out the ass
and LOL at MM being support units, supporting tanks and vessels....do you even PLAY tvz? what the fuck advice is this? MM do ALL the damage in tvz. tanks are only good for opening a lurker contain or killing sunkens, unless you're 2-3 faccing and going super heavy tanks, in which case the MM are still not support units, just not the only damage dealers.
you honestly think a group of 36 3/3 MM is "support" for your 6 vessels? vessels support MM by killing the only things that zerg has that can kill extremely well-microed MM....defilers and ultras
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Calgary25995 Posts
On February 16 2009 23:32 Piy wrote:
don't listen to aupstar, most of what he says is wrong or irrelevant.
Most of what he said looks solid to me here...
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On February 19 2009 02:36 NoobsOfWrath wrote:
4 turrets aint shit to a good muta user, they will die without killing a single muta
turrets buy time for marines, they are not the attacking force
if i feel i am facing a really good zerg i just make an extra bunker with 3-4 turrets, it works wonders, and requires no effort
nobody plays SK terran passively, that's stupid and it's how you lose with it; sk terran is about aggression, not being contained, taking the fight to the zerg, keeping swarm in the middle
getting 12 vessels is not autowin, nobody can even use 12 vessels except Nada and 450 apm perfect mechanic pros, guaranteed you're gonna fuck up and not use all your energy and get scourged out the ass
and LOL at MM being support units, supporting tanks and vessels....do you even PLAY tvz? what the fuck advice is this? MM do ALL the damage in tvz. tanks are only good for opening a lurker contain or killing sunkens, unless you're 2-3 faccing and going super heavy tanks, in which case the MM are still not support units, just not the only damage dealers.
you honestly think a group of 36 3/3 MM is "support" for your 6 vessels? vessels support MM by killing the only things that zerg has that can kill extremely well-microed MM....defilers and ultras
no, i dont think you are required to be extremely aggressive with SK to win. you can just run around killing stray units, dodging flanks, irradiating defilers, killing undefended bases with multiple drops, basically starve zerg to death.
12 vessels is pretty much autowin even if you get scourged after you at least irradiate one thing before you die. 12 irrads/12 matrixes are so powerful.
by your same logic...a good muta user would rape marines the same as turrets...
and if you go tank heavy, the tanks ARE the damage dealers... having 6 tanks fire all at once deals enough damage to make the marines only purpose to clean up weak units.
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On February 16 2009 22:42 aupstar wrote:
Building excess turrets will hurt your economy a lot since your wasting mining time and another 100 minerals on static defense.
I get my turrets for 75 minerals. Bargain!!
Also, I forgot the reason why people (like the OP) always type "turrent" "turrents" or "turrentz" instead of turret/turrets.
Do your torrents shoot missiles too?
just poking some fun since aupstar's advice is relevant and useful.
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On February 19 2009 02:53 ramen247 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2009 02:36 NoobsOfWrath wrote:
4 turrets aint shit to a good muta user, they will die without killing a single muta
turrets buy time for marines, they are not the attacking force
if i feel i am facing a really good zerg i just make an extra bunker with 3-4 turrets, it works wonders, and requires no effort
nobody plays SK terran passively, that's stupid and it's how you lose with it; sk terran is about aggression, not being contained, taking the fight to the zerg, keeping swarm in the middle
getting 12 vessels is not autowin, nobody can even use 12 vessels except Nada and 450 apm perfect mechanic pros, guaranteed you're gonna fuck up and not use all your energy and get scourged out the ass
and LOL at MM being support units, supporting tanks and vessels....do you even PLAY tvz? what the fuck advice is this? MM do ALL the damage in tvz. tanks are only good for opening a lurker contain or killing sunkens, unless you're 2-3 faccing and going super heavy tanks, in which case the MM are still not support units, just not the only damage dealers.
you honestly think a group of 36 3/3 MM is "support" for your 6 vessels? vessels support MM by killing the only things that zerg has that can kill extremely well-microed MM....defilers and ultras no, i dont think you are required to be extremely aggressive with SK to win. you can just run around killing stray units, dodging flanks, irradiating defilers, killing undefended bases with multiple drops, basically starve zerg to death. 12 vessels is pretty much autowin even if you get scourged after you at least irradiate one thing before you die. 12 irrads/12 matrixes are so powerful. by your same logic...a good muta user would rape marines the same as turrets... and if you go tank heavy, the tanks ARE the damage dealers... having 6 tanks fire all at once deals enough damage to make the marines only purpose to clean up weak units.
lol, no. the MM are not there to "clean up weak units." You cannot sit around and turtle and "kill zerg bases with drops." Yea, right. the 6 tanks certainly deal damage. but what they mainly do is give you range on lurkers to micro back with the marines and separate lurkers from lings.
I really have to question if you even play TvZ. Good luck going SK terran and NOT being aggressive. The entire point is to get out early and stay out. If you go SK terran and sit around you're going to get 12 lurkers on your choke, you'll have a few vessels, you'll be forced to get a tank or two, you'll be slowed as fuck, you will have to choose between dropships or vessels, it will be extremely hard to take a third, you wont be able to stop the zerg from expoing at all, he can easily afford 2-3 lurker at each base and 4-5 sunkens to stop anything but 6+ dropships full of units...
and no, not by my logic would muta rape mm the same as turrets. what the fuck? turrets do almost no damage to mutas, and MM have stim + medics + full damage vs mutas. stop trying to troll me. unless you make 8+ turrets in the same place, a zerg with good micro will only be delayed by turrets. the turrets buy you time to bring a set of MM over. 12 marines + 3 medics will do more than 5 turrets to a set of 11 mutas.
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try going sk terran without vessel and see how long you last.
if you have noticed, no terran ever moves out (except when trying to scare the zerg or rush) without a vessel or tank.
let's just say m&m are like the water against a housefire, tanks are like the fire trucks, and vessel are the hoses.
edit: you can affort to lose as much water as you want, but if you lose your truck or your hoses you're pretty much fked. you will also be fked if you run out of water, but that takes a while longer.
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On February 19 2009 04:47 NoobsOfWrath wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2009 02:53 ramen247 wrote:On February 19 2009 02:36 NoobsOfWrath wrote:
4 turrets aint shit to a good muta user, they will die without killing a single muta
turrets buy time for marines, they are not the attacking force
if i feel i am facing a really good zerg i just make an extra bunker with 3-4 turrets, it works wonders, and requires no effort
nobody plays SK terran passively, that's stupid and it's how you lose with it; sk terran is about aggression, not being contained, taking the fight to the zerg, keeping swarm in the middle
getting 12 vessels is not autowin, nobody can even use 12 vessels except Nada and 450 apm perfect mechanic pros, guaranteed you're gonna fuck up and not use all your energy and get scourged out the ass
and LOL at MM being support units, supporting tanks and vessels....do you even PLAY tvz? what the fuck advice is this? MM do ALL the damage in tvz. tanks are only good for opening a lurker contain or killing sunkens, unless you're 2-3 faccing and going super heavy tanks, in which case the MM are still not support units, just not the only damage dealers.
you honestly think a group of 36 3/3 MM is "support" for your 6 vessels? vessels support MM by killing the only things that zerg has that can kill extremely well-microed MM....defilers and ultras no, i dont think you are required to be extremely aggressive with SK to win. you can just run around killing stray units, dodging flanks, irradiating defilers, killing undefended bases with multiple drops, basically starve zerg to death. 12 vessels is pretty much autowin even if you get scourged after you at least irradiate one thing before you die. 12 irrads/12 matrixes are so powerful. by your same logic...a good muta user would rape marines the same as turrets... and if you go tank heavy, the tanks ARE the damage dealers... having 6 tanks fire all at once deals enough damage to make the marines only purpose to clean up weak units. lol, no. the MM are not there to "clean up weak units." You cannot sit around and turtle and "kill zerg bases with drops." Yea, right. the 6 tanks certainly deal damage. but what they mainly do is give you range on lurkers to micro back with the marines and separate lurkers from lings. I really have to question if you even play TvZ. Good luck going SK terran and NOT being aggressive. The entire point is to get out early and stay out. If you go SK terran and sit around you're going to get 12 lurkers on your choke, you'll have a few vessels, you'll be forced to get a tank or two, you'll be slowed as fuck, you will have to choose between dropships or vessels, it will be extremely hard to take a third, you wont be able to stop the zerg from expoing at all, he can easily afford 2-3 lurker at each base and 4-5 sunkens to stop anything but 6+ dropships full of units... and no, not by my logic would muta rape mm the same as turrets. what the fuck? turrets do almost no damage to mutas, and MM have stim + medics + full damage vs mutas. stop trying to troll me. unless you make 8+ turrets in the same place, a zerg with good micro will only be delayed by turrets. the turrets buy you time to bring a set of MM over. 12 marines + 3 medics will do more than 5 turrets to a set of 11 mutas.
i never said being passive meant you just stayed in your choke... im saying, you are outside, but you arent actively trying to fight the zerg army. instead, you harass the zerg instead with your army and drops. i never said that i would just stay in my choke.
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terran - ocean wave
ultras - cliff
T_T
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On February 19 2009 05:15 EsX_Raptor wrote:
try going sk terran without vessel and see how long you last.
if you have noticed, no terran ever moves out (except when trying to scare the zerg or rush) without a vessel or tank.
let's just say m&m are like the water against a housefire, tanks are like the fire trucks, and vessel are the hoses.
edit: you can affort to lose as much water as you want, but if you lose your truck or your hoses you're pretty much fked. you will also be fked if you run out of water, but that takes a while longer.
That's like saying hydras are support for the overlord when you're fighting dts....rofl
Of course you can fuckin move out before vessel, you have 2 scanners. You wait for vessel to make it easier on yourself. Your 36 marines and 6 medics are not "supporting" your 1 vessel when you move out. 1 vessel aint gonna kill shit. Your 1 vessel is not gonna be out after his defilers. The vessel is to make shit easier on you so they can't delay you indefinitely with 1 lurker at a time. The MM are what actually kill things.
This is seriously a stupid argument. Nowhere did I once say you don't need vessels. I said that MM are not "support" units. Stop twisting my words into your noob arguments.
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Korea (South)3086 Posts
You people that are saying that MnM's are support units seem to have not played TVZ...
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On February 19 2009 02:40 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2009 23:32 Piy wrote:
don't listen to aupstar, most of what he says is wrong or irrelevant. Most of what he said looks solid to me here...
Well its not the best idea to rally fiebats to your ramp just in case, especially if youre still on 1 barracks. You have to make sure with a scout, and send it towards his lings to check for speed or various other tell tale moves depending on the zergs build.
And the 'make turrets as he keeps sending mutas' can be badly misinterpreted, he doesnt mention at all how many do you need for the first mutas, or how many do you need as the numbers grow, which honestly, not a single terran keeps making turrets unless its to actually replace the lost ones, and zergs massing mutas to make adding turrets just to be safer, acceptable, are extremely rare.
Oh and muta harass in a standard game will be over MUCH sooner than you will ever have a vessel with irradiate. Irradiate should also finish later than when you start your first push, so imagine the time you have to wait for it.
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EPT
