EPTOystein FPVods [04-04 Update] - Page 5
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shenlong
219 Posts
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ccou
United States681 Posts
Do you skip templar energy upgrade? For the 1-gate expo andromeda build, is it critical that the initial 2-3 zealots inflict economic damage? Or does it still ok if the zerg anticipates and prepares defenses because min/larvae that went into sunk/lings instead of drones even things out somewhat? I'm sure many other pvz players including myself would prioritize the +1weapons/2 archon demonstration, but in the future, could you also demonstrate 1) 1gate tech 2)FE into sair/reaver and 3)dealing with very early hydra/(maybe lurk) contain/break when starting with FE. Particularly what to look or the timing/supply to break out at when contained at two bases. Sometimes it's just difficult to gauge how many hydra/lurks the opponent has. On March 17 2009 12:46 Oystein wrote: What does alt do? If you mean the colors yeah I always change them to green\red unless I forget it. I think -_- was talking about alt+hotkey group centers the screen on the hotkeyed group. | ||
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Ingenol
United States1328 Posts
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TicTacToe
China21 Posts
btw whats the software that you record your FPVOD? | ||
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Oystein
Norway1602 Posts
Do you skip templar energy upgrade? Yes I usually skip it, tho you get an extra storm if you save it up to max I most of the time find myself using my storms before I reach 200 mana. However it is great for defending expos having 3 storms instead of the 2 you normally have. In long drawn out games where money is not an issue I often upgrade it, but I rarely do it in regular games. For the 1-gate expo andromeda build, is it critical that the initial 2-3 zealots inflict economic damage? Or does it still ok if the zerg anticipates and prepares defenses because min/larvae that went into sunk/lings instead of drones even things out somewhat? No not at all, if you are able to that is just a bonus. Most of the time the Zerg will scout you moving out and add more lings\sunkens and that is eco damage just there. Often I will pressure with 3-5 lots and not really attack just force him to spend money on lings and sunks that normally would have gone into drones. The real strength of the 1gate expo builds shows against pool first builds, say your crossmap and he opens up overpool speed and don`t scout you until after his speed is finished and he have 12 lings that can`t do anything with a broken economy. Also the attack timings are pretty different than regular FE and will often throw the Zergs of their timings. In this game I opted for a quick 3rd, vs pool first openings I usually go for sairs and quick 1+ speedzeals from 4 gates, and they will usually hit just before lurks are finished or mutas pops. I'm sure many other pvz players including myself would prioritize the +1weapons/2 archon demonstration, but in the future, could you also demonstrate 1) 1gate tech 2)FE into sair/reaver and 3)dealing with very early hydra/(maybe lurk) contain/break when starting with FE. Particularly what to look or the timing/supply to break out at when contained at two bases. Sometimes it's just difficult to gauge how many hydra/lurks the opponent has. Will try to get around to do the zeal\archon soon. Will have the others in mind when I do recordings in the future also. I think -_- was talking about alt+hotkey group centers the screen on the hotkeyed group. Ah no I don`t do that, I just double tap the hotkey assigned to that group. Great thread. Thanks a lot! btw whats the software that you record your FPVOD? Camtasia for recording video, audacity for audio, virtual dub to compress the video and Windows movie maker to put it all together. | ||
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freelander
Hungary4707 Posts
In a very tight game where the opponent goes mass hydra and the positions are close this can save your life. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
On March 25 2009 02:53 freelander wrote: With templar energy, not only you improve the energy pool of templars but they will start with 62.5 energy instead of 50 so they can do a storm as soon as they arrive at the rally point. Consider this! In a very tight game where the opponent goes mass hydra and the positions are close this can save your life. I really didn't know that! Awesome, no reason not to research energy now | ||
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Oystein
Norway1602 Posts
On March 25 2009 03:35 koreasilver wrote: I recall Nony specifically telling players to get templar energy due to it allowing templars to fire a storm faster after they come out of a gateway. Yeah I know that, however with the amount of time it takes to research + the fact that that could have been another HT and zeal in your army I usually don`t research it unless I get to 3 bases or something and money really isn't that much of an issue. But as mentioned before its a good upgrade to research once you can afford it. | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7566 Posts
On March 25 2009 04:40 ahswtini wrote: I really didn't know that! Awesome, no reason not to research energy now A good reason is that if you get it off of 2 base, that extra storm+zealot could have actually won you a battle or help secure your third. Imagine a muta sniping spree that kills 4 temps after you start upgrading it. Now your stuck as hydra/lurker holds the map and zerg takes an extra base. situationally its good, not automatically! | ||
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MedicAir
United States15 Posts
Despite that, ZvP is my best match-up, (I think), so I wanted to ask for just some more ZvT, and even Zerg Mirror-matches, just if/when you come across them, to see how to better deal with them in general, especially the Zerg Mirrors. I'm really poor in ZvZ... =( I'm still really new, so I wanted to ask also, how/when do you decide to put up your third hatchery? I find that whenever I play, it seems like I always end up either putting it up too soon or too late... But when I think I'm doing it too soon, the timing for it feels right, but I lose my third base/hatch anyway. Is that just bad macro/production/map-control/whatever on my part? Your VOD's have given this lowly newbie a lot to think about, keep up the good work! P.S. : Oh yeah, and how many drones do you figure you end up with per mineral patch? I tend to settle around 1.5 drones, but I'm guessing some builds, like the 5 Hatch Hydra, might require more saturation? | ||
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Oystein
Norway1602 Posts
On March 25 2009 07:26 MedicAir wrote: Wow... Loved the Zerg VOD's! Awesome stuff. I'm still new to competitive SC, and just lost to Proxy Gates on iCCup yesterday, so knowing how to break that is great! Despite that, ZvP is my best match-up, (I think), so I wanted to ask for just some more ZvT, and even Zerg Mirror-matches, just if/when you come across them, to see how to better deal with them in general, especially the Zerg Mirrors. I'm really poor in ZvZ... =( I'm still really new, so I wanted to ask also, how/when do you decide to put up your third hatchery? I find that whenever I play, it seems like I always end up either putting it up too soon or too late... But when I think I'm doing it too soon, the timing for it feels right, but I lose my third base/hatch anyway. Is that just bad macro/production/map-control/whatever on my part? Your VOD's have given this lowly newbie a lot to think about, keep up the good work! P.S. : Oh yeah, and how many drones do you figure you end up with per mineral patch? I tend to settle around 1.5 drones, but I'm guessing some builds, like the 5 Hatch Hydra, might require more saturation? Sorry can`t help you with ZvZ, since I don`t play that matchup. Generally you want to place your 3rd hatch at 13 supply if you do a regular 3hatch build before gas. Not sure what matchup you are referring to but in ZvP if you scout with a drone at the same time you place your first expansion hatchery you should have checked all positions in time to decide where to put your 3rd hatch. If hes fast exping you wanna place it at a 3rd base, but if hes 2gating or 1gate teching you want to place it in your main or at your natural. In ZvT you wanna place your 3rd hatchery somewhere in your main base. 1,5 drones sounds about right for a standard macrogame yeah, depends what kind of build you are using. With the 5hatch hydra build you naturally end up with a lot of drones before you start unit production. | ||
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MedicAir
United States15 Posts
No big loss on the ZvZ stuff, I threw down some info in another thread on here for training partners. Consistently get stomped by the guys who ask to play, but that's why I asked for people who beat me to try to give me pointers. =) One of them happens to be a Zerg player, so that went well, and I was able to try to mess around with and feel out some of the VOD stuff, mostly just the opening BO's. I guess though, if your awesomeness isn't into ZvZ, that I'd like to request a longer ZvT/P game, where you go into a little more depth with timing (in general), and strategy, and any tech-switches/other adapting you have to do and some kind of explanation on how exactly to make that work. If/When you run into a game like that that you manage to record, please, PLEASE for my benefeit, post it. I've improved so much in the last few weeks, but I'm running out of reading material and VODs, and I practice a decent amount, but I learn and improve best when it's a constant intake of information of all kinds, including experience, and that would be benefeited greatly by learning how to better transition my tech-switches (They've never felt right, like grinding the gears on a car,) when I'm able to last that long into a game, and how to profit the most from my investment. | ||
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niin
61 Posts
i know this sounds "nit picky" and no one plays perfect but understand i'm not criticizing your play i'm just saying these things are all worth mentioning. they are all really crucial parts of this build and are vital to its success. the 5 hatch build for zerg is a really tough thing to master but once you have a grasp on the timings of everything you can ride this one build(given proper micro & macro)all the way to as high rank as your capable of. this is really the zerg version of the flash build because even when the enemy knows this is whats coming its really hard to stop when done properly. | ||
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Oystein
Norway1602 Posts
On March 26 2009 00:03 niin wrote: we all really appreciate your vods as anything that helps people become better at starcraft is always a great thing but i have to say that your 5 hatch build is pretty, for lack of better word, wrong. i mean you have to build about 3 control groups of hydras then a round of drones to replace those you've used for buildings. i saw you make the drones but you didn't mention it in the video and a lot of newbie zerg players in the end game will end up with 6-7 drones mining @ a base and you're really missing out on a lot of units that way. also the mutas are very important to assault the protoss main briefly to force more cannons and possibly archon production and then to pick off high templars. also creating a few scourge placed at proper locations to pick off drop ship harassment and having lings at every expansion to make sure the protoss isn't cannoning the ridge line and sending a high templar there with storm because if this happens you will not be able to pick off the 3rd without sacrificing enough of your army to become vulnerable to a counter. i know this sounds "nit picky" and no one plays perfect but understand i'm not criticizing your play i'm just saying these things are all worth mentioning. they are all really crucial parts of this build and are vital to its success. the 5 hatch build for zerg is a really tough thing to master but once you have a grasp on the timings of everything you can ride this one build(given proper micro & macro)all the way to as high rank as your capable of. this is really the zerg version of the flash build because even when the enemy knows this is whats coming its really hard to stop when done properly. Hmm maybe I forgot to mention it, but I am doing another VOD on the build later where I will try to get more into eco management and the kind of followups you can do after the initial rounds of hydras. Also if you do the build like I do in the VOD your not gonna end up with 6-7 drones, I did not start hydras before I was at close to 40 drones. Of course if he goes for a quicker zeal rush or something you have to adjust and start hydras before, and then its more important to do drone rounds whenever possible, but I have planned to talk more about that in the next VOD and other more advanced things about the build. About the mutas you don`t HAVE to make them in the 5hatch hydra build, sure they are a viable option and can be very strong if you are able to snipe of HTs or catch his main without to many cannons. But there is no "rule" that you have to make them, lurkers are a very viable option as I will hopefully show in my next VOD. As for the other things, yeah I guess I should have mentioned them. I guess it just feels so natural to me to put lords on every position once I get speed for my lords and place any leftover scourge in drop positions that I forgot to mention it. Will try to cover it in the next one, like I said the first one I only covered the build order and some of the basic concepts of the build. I am away for some days now, but I will try to make another VOD covering more stuff next week. | ||
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MedicAir
United States15 Posts
When you're making these VOD's, do you just wait for a game where you can try the strategy you want to talk about or that someone's requested, or do you just try it anyway, regardless of the outcome? *Imagines Mass Muta's vs a Sair/Reaver Protoss...* | ||
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Re-Play-
Dominican Republic825 Posts
can you do PvZ,PvP,PvT General Tips?? like Stylish TvP General Tips!! i would be Great to know some tips about everything i know this takes time and dedication but i need General tips i mean thinks like this: ""I recall Nony specifically telling players to get templar energy due to it allowing templars to fire a storm faster after they come out of a gateway"" i didnt know that... thx | ||
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TaP.Nuada
United States428 Posts
That your pvz @ andro is against sksports. I noticed a few days ago that according to ICCup who is who season 8 skports is a Korean amature aka: Answer[jOin] | ||
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Oystein
Norway1602 Posts
On March 26 2009 17:20 TaP.Nuada wrote: I just wanted to point out, I don't think it's been mentioned yet... That your pvz @ andro is against sksports. I noticed a few days ago that according to ICCup who is who season 8 skports is a Korean amature aka: Answer[jOin] Yeah he was at the latest draft, I was hoping he would get picked up by a team so I could say I had beaten a progamer  | ||
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Oystein
Norway1602 Posts
On March 26 2009 06:25 MedicAir wrote: I've got another question for you Oystein. Now, I know going into a game, they always say, "Have a game-plan," meaning an opening strategy or idea concerning how you want to handle things... When you're making these VOD's, do you just wait for a game where you can try the strategy you want to talk about or that someone's requested, or do you just try it anyway, regardless of the outcome? *Imagines Mass Muta's vs a Sair/Reaver Protoss...* I usually have a gameplan going into the game, but I always try to adept to what I scout in any given game. Often I end up recording lots of games that I discard because my opponent does things that force me to play differently, recording 5-10 games to get 1 to use as a VOD is not uncommon. hi Oystein can you do PvZ,PvP,PvT General Tips?? like Stylish TvP General Tips!! i would be Great to know some tips about everything i know this takes time and dedication but i need General tips i mean thinks like this: ""I recall Nony specifically telling players to get templar energy due to it allowing templars to fire a storm faster after they come out of a gateway"" i didnt know that... thx Maybe I will do one later, have a few projects I wanna do first but I will think about it. Also I don`t really play PvP so my advices there will not be as good and accurate as the other matchups. | ||
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