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Enjoyed your games vs attackzerg in the racewars!
o_o''
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
wohooo takk
gona check out ur zvt vods later! :D
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Dude, that's great, thanks SO SO MUCH!
Can I examine the replays when I am home and post the build orders too? Like in the Stylish thread? When I type the in the appropriate format I can PM them to you and you can update post with BOs too. That would be nice I guess.
ps: You scandinavian players are becoming my favorite guy on Tl, posting vods, explaining stuff... Thanks a lot!
ps2: are you a race picker? Or do you play straight P vs everything and you're off-racing here?
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very nice :D keep up the good work!
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On February 11 2009 20:27 hymn wrote:
Dude, that's great, thanks SO SO MUCH!
Can I examine the replays when I am home and post the build orders too? Like in the Stylish thread? When I type the in the appropriate format I can PM them to you and you can update post with BOs too. That would be nice I guess.
ps: You scandinavian players are becoming my favorite guy on Tl, posting vods, explaining stuff... Thanks a lot!
ps2: are you a race picker? Or do you play straight P vs everything and you're off-racing here?
I am a racepicker yeah, I play mainly PvZ, PvT and ZvP but I play a decent amount of TvZ and ZvT also so if I think its a better map to play TvZ than PvZ I would play TvZ in a CW for instance.
The thing with my build orders are that I make things on the fly pretty much every game, I mean I have a game plan like "ok now im gonna do a 3hatch spire->5hatch hydra" but when I put down things is different every game  especially for ZvP and PvZ. I guess for PvT I follow pretty much the same builds only with minor changes from game to game, like timings for when I add robo or a 3rd.
However if you would actually type down the reps by all means I wont stop you, and will put them in the OP and give you credit for it.
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On February 11 2009 21:00 Oystein wrote:However if you would actually type down the reps by all means I wont stop you, and will put them in the OP and give you credit for it.
Ok then, this evening I'm gonna do them and I'm gonna message you so you an update it.
And race picking is nice  And so much more difficult at the same time.
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just watched them all actually.
Your commentating is kind of funny, but I loved them all!
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Kult! Skal sjekke ut disse senere 
(Cool! Gonna watch these later)
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im a race picker; zvp, tvz, pvt- the three easy match ups! Lol
Nice fpvods Oystein.
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Thanks a lot, great stuff!
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So what do you do when someone says random and then switches to P at the last second?
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On February 12 2009 00:13 Neverborn wrote:So what do you do when someone says random and then switches to P at the last second?
well if people dont pick race I just play random, and i they chose I have no problems with it, playing random vs picked gives you an advantage after all
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Oystein you're a fucking pimp. Thanks for your vods
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On February 12 2009 00:13 Neverborn wrote:So what do you do when someone says random and then switches to P at the last second?
He rapes them and and then makes funny norwegian sounds in celebration!...
Oystein link they to our streamed game that balta did the commentary on .
(Shit game, but my first streamed!)
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Thank you! FPVoDs are always welcome. It makes the game seem so easy, yet, then I try, I am incredibly slower and way worse. :D
Does anyone have any tips for playing on a laptop and having problems with hitting the right keys? I misclick too often 
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
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Did you misspell his name on purpose?
And, Oystein, I sent a PM with the build orders last night, dude.
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great, thanks
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
These are nice vods, very useful to see what to do and your gameplay is well explained
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United States11637 Posts
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thanks this will be useful
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Oystein I would like to see a ZvP where you go 9 overpool speed and the protoss plays 2gate. I seem to have problems managing my economy properly because he continues producing zealots while teching. Somehow I don't really understand how to get a good economy after 9 overpool speed.(This is only against non FE Protoss Players, against FE I play the standard 3hatch lair into 5hatch hydra)
I hope you got something
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Thank you very much for this. I've always admired top level foreign zerg play.
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Norwegians have the sexiest voices ever. I think I'm on the turn!
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On February 15 2009 09:12 geenobu wrote:Oystein I would like to see a ZvP where you go 9 overpool speed and the protoss plays 2gate. I seem to have problems managing my economy properly because he continues producing zealots while teching. Somehow I don't really understand how to get a good economy after 9 overpool speed.(This is only against non FE Protoss Players, against FE I play the standard 3hatch lair into 5hatch hydra) I hope you got something
Don`t think I have any VODs of that available so I would have to record a new one, however at the moment I am without internet at home since my ADSL modem broke down a few days ago and it takes a week or so for the ISP to send a new one.
Will have this in mind when I get back to recording new VODs, but 2gate from main is rather rare at the levels I play and I don`t use overpool speed often beside on a few maps and those are usually FE maps. So I can`t promise anything fast.
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Yeah It seems that on higher ranks most protoss play standard and at my level they tend to play either 2gate, 1gate tech or some proxy. Because I open with overpool speed most of my games, I find myself in this low economy play way too often. But anyway thanks for keeping this in mind
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
Yeah I've discovered that too, my friends only seem to know two gate.
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Updated the OP with 4 build order transcripts that hymn made from the replays.
I could always make a VOD at low levels or get a friend of mine to 2gate vs me, but the result will not be as good as if it happens in some random laddergame I am afraid, but I will see what I can do.
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I'm having huge trubel hearing what you say in the ZvT game becus of all the in game sounds. if you make more vods you might want to lower the ingame sound or remov it completly so its easyer to hear what you say...
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Hey oystein, its inhale, idk if you remember me, i was on icc and you and shauni gave me some great advice (thank you). I was wondering where i can download these fpvods. I have the pvt with the max army on col but i dont see where i can download the dt dorp into arbs.
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Forgive me for nit-picking but I think you mean 14 creep colony in the ZvP proxygates BO
Thanks so much for the guides!
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Ohhhhhhh, also i would love to see a fpvod of a PvT, where the T does a hard push and build turrets as he moves forward.
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That 2nd ZvP is not FPvod. Itrs just a commentary of a replay... T_T
PS- The countering with lings imo is only going to work on maps with wide chokes to mains. As you see in the andromeda game he has tons of zeals and it makes it nearly impossible to break without losing tons of lings and drone mining time. Effectively negating any advantage you would have otherwise.
Do you think expanding to in base mineral only first is better since you are going to have to cancel nat hatch if he rushes, and will probably have 3rd hatch gas up in time for any typical build? I think the sunken here would also free up the ramp. But I dunno if he can just bypass it or kill the colonies before they morph with the early zeals.
I would like to see more ZvP vs FE on maps where it is really easy for toss to get his 3rd base as well.
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On February 27 2009 00:11 GreEny K wrote:
Hey oystein, its inhale, idk if you remember me, i was on icc and you and shauni gave me some great advice (thank you). I was wondering where i can download these fpvods. I have the pvt with the max army on col but i dont see where i can download the dt dorp into arbs.
You should be able to download all the VODs from : http://hosted.filefront.com/Oystein123
There is also some rep packs there (all my TSL reps, Spirit Reps and some of my latest iccup reps this season) and some VODs without commentary but just with music.
Forgive me for nit-picking but I think you mean 14 creep colony in the ZvP proxygates BO
Thanks so much for the guides!
Thanks its fixed now.
That 2nd ZvP is not FPvod. Itrs just a commentary of a replay... T_T
PS- The countering with lings imo is only going to work on maps with wide chokes to mains. As you see in the andromeda game he has tons of zeals and it makes it nearly impossible to break without losing tons of lings and drone mining time. Effectively negating any advantage you would have otherwise.
Do you think expanding to in base mineral only first is better since you are going to have to cancel nat hatch if he rushes, and will probably have 3rd hatch gas up in time for any typical build? I think the sunken here would also free up the ramp. But I dunno if he can just bypass it or kill the colonies before they morph with the early zeals.
I would like to see more ZvP vs FE on maps where it is really easy for toss to get his 3rd base as well.
Losing lings and mining time is better than outright dying vs the proxygate plus once you break out you even the game up pretty much by killing of his gates. + like I said in the VOD you should be able to do lots of harass and make him lose mining time with the first lings you run out before he is able to shut your ramp totally, even do I failed badly at that in that game.
I sometimes expo to the min only since its easier to hold vs 2gates, but in general it often still is hard to defend vs proxygates with the 12hatch. The difference is vs 1gate builds and normal FE builds you can put down a single sunk at your natural and be safe, while if you do min only first you can get some trouble from lots early on and have to make more lings than you would want to. (trouble in defending your natural when you have a morphing hatchery)
I will try to get around making more VODs during next week hopefully. Iv just been very busy with moving to a new apartment lately and my modem in the old place didnt work properly the last 2-3 weeks I lived there so I have not played much lately.
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Ohhhhhhh, also i would love to see a fpvod of a PvT, where the T does a hard push and build turrets as he moves forward.
Do you have a replay along these lines? i would love to watch something that explains how to counter that effectively.
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God Hates a Coward
this is a song from the band tomahawk.. are you a fan of mike patton?
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could we get some info on rally points and how you deal with changing them when you have like 10+ gates all on different spots of the map. i use f3, f4 u?
also, how about some good PvZ builds (one aggressive and one more reactive) for destination and medusa. thanks. your VODs are pimp.
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I think he just right clicks the place where he want's to change each of his gateways....
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On March 01 2009 20:45 omninmo wrote:
God Hates a Coward
this is a song from the band tomahawk.. are you a fan of mike patton?
Yes that is correct. I like some of pattons work (faith no more, tomahawk not all of it but lots of songs) but lots of it like fantomas and mr bungle I don`t really like.
could we get some info on rally points and how you deal with changing them when you have like 10+ gates all on different spots of the map. i use f3, f4 u?
also, how about some good PvZ builds (one aggressive and one more reactive) for destination and medusa. thanks. your VODs are pimp.
I usually hotkey 4-5 gates at the time and do 4 right click, 5 right click etc and often move like 1 or 2 gates manually if I don`t have enough room in the hotkeys. I also rarely move rallypoint after iv rallied everything to my natural, pretty much only if there are enemy forces there and then I just do click a gateway rightclick next to it in base and repeat on all gates.
Been recording lots of games the last few days, will get around to make commentaries for them soon. Its just that right now its more fun just massgaming and getting games vs gosu Koreans I wont get games vs later in the season 
One more game and I get into the blue ranks, then the real fun begins
Edit : Updated the OP with my rep packs also, there should be lots of PvZ games in those to watch while you wait for VODs.
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Sweet Oystein, your dominating that scl ladder. opened up 1000 point lead. Sick.
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haha its only expected of someone as good as Oystein ^^
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Updated the OP with a new VOD.
Iv started working on VODs of the 10\15 rush PvT, and the first VOD is now up. Its a short game that shows how it can succeed and includes the BO. I will make more VODs where I will discuss the different follow ups and how wall\no wall affects your play etc, at a later time.
VOD : http://files.filefront.com/1015rushwmv/;13456019;/fileinfo.html
Rep : http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=8767
BO : + Show Spoiler +8 Pylon
10 gateway
11 gas
13 core
15 gateway (Scout after gateway, and cut probeS)
15 Range
15 goon
17 pylon
17 build 2 goons
22 Pylon (resume probe production)
23 Goon
25 Goon
28 Pylon
Its not yet possible to watch it streamed but I think it will change soon. Also fire away questions you might have, and I will answer it here or included it in the next VOD.
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I'll bring up the same issue I did in the 10/15 thread becuase Im curious for an answer and doubtful about getting one besides playing alot myself, but since you play maybe you are willing to try both out and experience what small difference there is between the builds.
"I think the key B.O. question here is what is more important -- faster goons or faster range. It is unclear to me, but I am leaning towards 15p,15goon,17range while Gnojfatelob has opted for faster range."
You go 15range-15goon-17pylon, saving up 200+ mins before range, delaying the first goon slightly for faster range, which also delays the 3rd and 5th slightly. And 17p delays the 2nd and 4th goons by a large amount. But perhaps the faster range does matter more, dunno, so there's my question.
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Hey Oystein I'm a C protoss and I've been using this build quite alot on medusa. The only variations I had in my build was that I scout after the first gateway which after viewing this vod probably is unessecary and that I build my second gate with the 15th probe that comes out as the probe cut starts, because that gives me some more mining time and you don't start using the gate right away anyway. Unless you build it with that probe in which case I believe it pops right as my pylon does (could be wrong about this). Do you think it's worthwhile to wait with the second gate until the 15th probe pops out or should I copy your build exactly?
By the way, the one followup I really really like to this is the robo after 5 goons and going straight into reaver skipping early obs (adding after reaver obviously). It might be because I'm only C level and my opponents are not perfect in their reaver defense but I find that I almost allways get ahead economically because I can place my exp as the shuttle moves out and delay his expansion so long with just the threat of the reaver. Also at my level sometimes the terrans move to many tanks from the wall to defend vs the reaver in which case I can break it with the shuttle + my goons often times. Anyway, that's just my favorite followup to it. Would be awesome if you made a guide and showcased how it works vs really good terrans.
I've tried DT folllowup or just fast second nex but it seems the terran has too much of an offensive threat or economic lead if I mess up slightly with those builds. The reaver gives me safety as it can combat stray tanks and stuff if he gets careless and it can also totally rape a counter by him if he tries to move out too fast.
Hoping you have time to answer my post. Thanks for the great guide!
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On March 13 2009 12:58 Knickknack wrote:
I'll bring up the same issue I did in the 10/15 thread becuase Im curious for an answer and doubtful about getting one besides playing alot myself, but since you play maybe you are willing to try both out and experience what small difference there is between the builds.
"I think the key B.O. question here is what is more important -- faster goons or faster range. It is unclear to me, but I am leaning towards 15p,15goon,17range while Gnojfatelob has opted for faster range."
You go 15range-15goon-17pylon, saving up 200+ mins before range, delaying the first goon slightly for faster range, which also delays the 3rd and 5th slightly. And 17p delays the 2nd and 4th goons by a large amount. But perhaps the faster range does matter more, dunno, so there's my question.
Iv been testing out both options, and I found the range->goon->pylon to be the best by far imo. Before I used to do 2 or 3 goons before range for faster goons. While it gives you slightly slower goons, your range finishes just as you get 3 goons to their base and that imo is just huge, it makes killing marines so much easier if they did FD, and its a lot easier to put pressure on their wall by trying to snipe the tank at every chance you get. Also you can tweak my build slightly and cut probes longer and get your 4th and 5th goon out at the same time if you wanna apply even more pressure. Both builds are viable options and I think a lot comes down to personal preference, I know that I at least enjoy the range build as I feel it gives you more room to micro easier.
To Starbrift, you don`t need to scout before after your second gate since you are committing to a rush build regardless, unless you scout him on the first pos and for some reason feel like changing build. With the build I use you need all that money to be able to get range asap and then the first goon a few sec later and be able to make 2 goons asap when the pylon finishes. For the gateway timing, sure you can wait a bit longer to make your 15th gate since it stays idle for a short while in this build, but its not like you need those minerals for something else and I am just afraid of putting it down to late and having my goons delayed + it probably will mine max 8 mins more by waiting longer before you build it.
As for the follow up, if I do little or no damage I always stop goons after the 5 first and I only make more goons if I do good damage with the first goons or hes going 2fact or something. Yeah reavers can be a pretty good follow up, however it relies rather heavy on you doing some damage with the drop, if you fail to do damage you usually will just die to the first push T does, therefor I mostly do it if I feel i am far behind in the game and need to something risky to equalize the game, but its a good option for a follow up for sure but I find it a bit "random".
Lately I have been testing out nexus then going for a DT drop with quick arbiter after that turning it into more standard play, iv had decent success with it but I am still working on trying to find optimized timings for your 3rd and gateways. Iv also been testing out double expoing on medusa/colloseum where all the Ts seem to forgo pushing and take their 3rd really fast. To be honest I am still not sure what follow up I like the best, and I am still in sort of the test phase on a few of the follow ups.
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Just a few q's.
Do you save screens? If so, what screens do you save?
Do you use alt, or do you double tap?
Do you watch the minimap for pings?
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United States11637 Posts
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Hm, just something interesting I noticed. 20090313 is today. ForGG is switching teams around now and just reset his iCCup account. Wonder if this is a coincidence.
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More Zerg FPVODs please good sir!
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On March 14 2009 09:10 SiegeTanksandBlueGoo wrote:
Hm, just something interesting I noticed. 20090313 is today. ForGG is switching teams around now and just reset his iCCup account. Wonder if this is a coincidence.
Im looking at his account right now (20090302) and he's still B+
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On March 13 2009 19:32 Oystein wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2009 12:58 Knickknack wrote:
I'll bring up the same issue I did in the 10/15 thread becuase Im curious for an answer and doubtful about getting one besides playing alot myself, but since you play maybe you are willing to try both out and experience what small difference there is between the builds.
"I think the key B.O. question here is what is more important -- faster goons or faster range. It is unclear to me, but I am leaning towards 15p,15goon,17range while Gnojfatelob has opted for faster range."
You go 15range-15goon-17pylon, saving up 200+ mins before range, delaying the first goon slightly for faster range, which also delays the 3rd and 5th slightly. And 17p delays the 2nd and 4th goons by a large amount. But perhaps the faster range does matter more, dunno, so there's my question.
Iv been testing out both options, and I found the range->goon->pylon to be the best by far imo. Before I used to do 2 or 3 goons before range for faster goons. While it gives you slightly slower goons, your range finishes just as you get 3 goons to their base and that imo is just huge, it makes killing marines so much easier if they did FD, and its a lot easier to put pressure on their wall by trying to snipe the tank at every chance you get. Also you can tweak my build slightly and cut probes longer and get your 4th and 5th goon out at the same time if you wanna apply even more pressure. Both builds are viable options and I think a lot comes down to personal preference, I know that I at least enjoy the range build as I feel it gives you more room to micro easier. To Starbrift, you don`t need to scout before after your second gate since you are committing to a rush build regardless, unless you scout him on the first pos and for some reason feel like changing build. With the build I use you need all that money to be able to get range asap and then the first goon a few sec later and be able to make 2 goons asap when the pylon finishes. For the gateway timing, sure you can wait a bit longer to make your 15th gate since it stays idle for a short while in this build, but its not like you need those minerals for something else and I am just afraid of putting it down to late and having my goons delayed + it probably will mine max 8 mins more by waiting longer before you build it. As for the follow up, if I do little or no damage I always stop goons after the 5 first and I only make more goons if I do good damage with the first goons or hes going 2fact or something. Yeah reavers can be a pretty good follow up, however it relies rather heavy on you doing some damage with the drop, if you fail to do damage you usually will just die to the first push T does, therefor I mostly do it if I feel i am far behind in the game and need to something risky to equalize the game, but its a good option for a follow up for sure but I find it a bit "random". Lately I have been testing out nexus then going for a DT drop with quick arbiter after that turning it into more standard play, iv had decent success with it but I am still working on trying to find optimized timings for your 3rd and gateways. Iv also been testing out double expoing on medusa/colloseum where all the Ts seem to forgo pushing and take their 3rd really fast. To be honest I am still not sure what follow up I like the best, and I am still in sort of the test phase on a few of the follow ups.
Thanks for the reply. I'll try that followup with DT and expand aswell I think. Sounds powerful if timed right. In what order would you add the citadel and nat exp if you did that? Exp first and then citadel + robo?
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On March 14 2009 16:50 StarBrift wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2009 19:32 Oystein wrote:On March 13 2009 12:58 Knickknack wrote:
I'll bring up the same issue I did in the 10/15 thread becuase Im curious for an answer and doubtful about getting one besides playing alot myself, but since you play maybe you are willing to try both out and experience what small difference there is between the builds.
"I think the key B.O. question here is what is more important -- faster goons or faster range. It is unclear to me, but I am leaning towards 15p,15goon,17range while Gnojfatelob has opted for faster range."
You go 15range-15goon-17pylon, saving up 200+ mins before range, delaying the first goon slightly for faster range, which also delays the 3rd and 5th slightly. And 17p delays the 2nd and 4th goons by a large amount. But perhaps the faster range does matter more, dunno, so there's my question.
Iv been testing out both options, and I found the range->goon->pylon to be the best by far imo. Before I used to do 2 or 3 goons before range for faster goons. While it gives you slightly slower goons, your range finishes just as you get 3 goons to their base and that imo is just huge, it makes killing marines so much easier if they did FD, and its a lot easier to put pressure on their wall by trying to snipe the tank at every chance you get. Also you can tweak my build slightly and cut probes longer and get your 4th and 5th goon out at the same time if you wanna apply even more pressure. Both builds are viable options and I think a lot comes down to personal preference, I know that I at least enjoy the range build as I feel it gives you more room to micro easier. To Starbrift, you don`t need to scout before after your second gate since you are committing to a rush build regardless, unless you scout him on the first pos and for some reason feel like changing build. With the build I use you need all that money to be able to get range asap and then the first goon a few sec later and be able to make 2 goons asap when the pylon finishes. For the gateway timing, sure you can wait a bit longer to make your 15th gate since it stays idle for a short while in this build, but its not like you need those minerals for something else and I am just afraid of putting it down to late and having my goons delayed + it probably will mine max 8 mins more by waiting longer before you build it. As for the follow up, if I do little or no damage I always stop goons after the 5 first and I only make more goons if I do good damage with the first goons or hes going 2fact or something. Yeah reavers can be a pretty good follow up, however it relies rather heavy on you doing some damage with the drop, if you fail to do damage you usually will just die to the first push T does, therefor I mostly do it if I feel i am far behind in the game and need to something risky to equalize the game, but its a good option for a follow up for sure but I find it a bit "random". Lately I have been testing out nexus then going for a DT drop with quick arbiter after that turning it into more standard play, iv had decent success with it but I am still working on trying to find optimized timings for your 3rd and gateways. Iv also been testing out double expoing on medusa/colloseum where all the Ts seem to forgo pushing and take their 3rd really fast. To be honest I am still not sure what follow up I like the best, and I am still in sort of the test phase on a few of the follow ups. Thanks for the reply. I'll try that followup with DT and expand aswell I think. Sounds powerful if timed right. In what order would you add the citadel and nat exp if you did that? Exp first and then citadel + robo?
Yes expo first, then citadel then robo and don`t forget to take your gas on natural quickly since its a very gas heavy build. (I usually have my gas finished about the same time my nexus finishes). I also usually start my stargate while the archives is warping.
Its not really designed to do a lot of damage, but more to contain T and force him to waste scans while you tech up to arbiters for a more standard lategame approach, of course sometimes you will catch the T off guard and can do lots of damage but that should really just be considered a bonus if it happens and not something you should rely on. Just like the regular expo->dt->arb build your goal is really to get away with expo and heavy teching with a minimum of defense just relying on your DTs to keep him occupied in his main and stop his push if he decides to move out early.
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I really like the your videos! Just wanted to show some appreciation before I make requests Really is cool what you're doing for the community.
How about some pvz VOD's?
I've been trying to learn the 2 archon, speedzeal, +1 attack timing attack, but it always comes late for me, I think
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On March 15 2009 15:54 TaP.Nuada wrote:I really like the your videos! Just wanted to show some appreciation before I make requests Really is cool what you're doing for the community. How about some pvz VOD's? I've been trying to learn the 2 archon, speedzeal, +1 attack timing attack, but it always comes late for me, I think
Thx!
Yeah I will do some PvZ soon, been recording games but have not gotten around to making commentaries for them yet.
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On March 14 2009 01:50 -_- wrote:
Just a few q's.
Do you save screens? If so, what screens do you save?
Do you use alt, or do you double tap?
Do you watch the minimap for pings?
I don`t save screen locations, tho its probably something I should start doing. Mostly I just use hotkeys, space or just use the minimap or if its close scroll with the mouse.
What does alt do? If you mean the colors yeah I always change them to green\red unless I forget it.
Mostly I watch for red dots on the minimap, I don`t look for pings too see when my units are finished for example.
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Dominican Republic825 Posts
thanks Oystein!! keep up with the Good Job
this will help me and others...
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Is the 1 gate expand only viable on Andromeda? I saw you do this build a lot in your rep pack. Seems to me like this would be instantly overrun by fast hydra or ling or really anything on another map. Also, how do you stop it if they start massing lings and drone drill your ramp? Delay Nexus? Get forge? Pump zealots?
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United States3824 Posts
Oystein you are killing it in the SC2 Ladder! Congrats
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Yay pvz! Thanks again Oystien!!
Your VOD's are awesome
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Your FPVOD's are sick. If you were ever so inclined to do the PvZ 1-gate expo build from the Zerg point of view...(wink wink). :D
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On March 18 2009 10:31 SiegeTanksandBlueGoo wrote:
Is the 1 gate expand only viable on Andromeda? I saw you do this build a lot in your rep pack. Seems to me like this would be instantly overrun by fast hydra or ling or really anything on another map. Also, how do you stop it if they start massing lings and drone drill your ramp? Delay Nexus? Get forge? Pump zealots?
Its viable on maps like Colosseum and Katrina also, but you have to play it slightly different there and usually you wanna open up with gate\forge first and be aggressive with your first zealots.
Well you should be able to scout if they do mass lings, then I delay the gas\core and put up a forge while maintaining a non stop zeal production and use probes to drill if they try to break the ramp while you just buy time to get a cannon in place on your ramp. You should pretty much never die vs mass lings on ramped maps if you have good reaction on pulling your probes, even if you 1gate expo or 1gate tech.
Your FPVOD's are sick. If you were ever so inclined to do the PvZ 1-gate expo build from the Zerg point of view...(wink wink). :D
Could do it if I am recording and if I happen to play vs it. Not that many people use it and Andromeda is really the only map in the current iccup maps that it can be used on. Also I have not quite gotten it down how to defeat the build when I play Z myself. I been losing a lot vs it when training with Shauni.
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can u post them in youtube?
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On March 18 2009 23:48 justiceknight wrote:
can u post them in youtube?
A few of them are on the Nevake account. I don`t have a account I can upload more than 10mins on youtube myself, and I think the videos at filefront will be streamed, usually they get streamed immediately, but for some reason the last few uploads have taken some time before they are stream able
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Hey oystein I have a question.
I am a big fan of overpool into macro play esp on medusa.
I usually use overpool to transition which can force protoss (if I dog there probe well enough) to overproduce cannons in their mineral line or there front door.
I would like you to explain how I can read the difference between a sair/+1 attack opening versus a sair/+1 3-4chon attack.
I find that versus +1 legs I can add my den at 50% lair (gas on 15 after third hat) and go carpace/spire, then continual drone pump while adding both additional hatches and be fine, esp with a dozen speedlings to control early protoss zealot/probe aggression but versus chon attacks I often find myself stretched and still sometimes losing crucial builds. How can I differentiate from games where 5 hat hydraspeed is needed to maintain mapcontrol/solid defence and games where I must open lurker first to defend. Also what is a good ratio of lurkers to safely repel both standard attacks.
Another question on that midgame situation is that when I open 3 hat lair/lurker I find myself at 3 gas/4 base (read:medusa) yet unable to do anything but defend. What grades should I get first in a lurker variation and what is a good second evo timing.
Another question in the same midgame is what is a good building trigger for hive timing. Should I time it off of my +2carpace so that I can immediately get +3 or should it be anytime after I establish 2-3 evo's with speed already done.
Thanks a ton in advance for your advice, I have replays if you need them.
<3 oystein
(Team Get. Hwaiting~!!)
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thanks for the 12 hat vs proxy on colo2 VOD.
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Any chance you could make a PvZ FPVOD of the 4 gate 2 archon PvZ bible? I know theres a comprehensive guide in the recommended threads, but PvZ still frightens and confuses me @_@
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more zvx reps
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On March 21 2009 04:11 HeavOnEarth wrote:more zvx reps
I just made a VOD tonight of the 3hatch spire->5hatch hydra build that I am uploading at the moment that hopefully will be good since I think I cover a lot of the basic concepts of the build.
Any chance you could make a PvZ FPVOD of the 4 gate 2 archon PvZ bible? I know theres a comprehensive guide in the recommended threads, but PvZ still frightens and confuses me @_@ Its on my to do list, but I have not recorded any good VODs while doing this yet. Hopefully I can get around to making one soon.
@attackzerg
Lots of good questions there m8. Not sure if you are talking about a overpool without gas, but I assume it since you talk about being good at killing scouts (with speed that should not be any problems) To be honest I very rarely use an overpool without gas build, most of the times I do overpool its with gas. So a lot of the timings etc I am not to familiar with, but I will try to answer some of the other questions.
On the difference between the 2 builds, I think its usually given away by the P having more gateways (and usually faster) and no Templar archives. Also when they take the second gas is a good indicator, if they don`t take it before they start the stargate\citadel you can assume its a sair\zeal build. Beside this the only good answer is really just to scout with ling\scourge to check what the P have.
When opening lurkers you are suppose to play defensively, as for upgrades I usually get the armor upgrade first, then add a second evo so I start both +1 melee and +2 armor at the same time with the hive up before the +2 armor is finished. I don`t really use any triggers, but I often get hive right after speed finishes when opening lurkers, since I usually rush for cracklings\lurker when I open lurker, often from 3bases and 5hatches. I also often delay oviespeed when opening lurks to sink all my gas into upgrades and lurkers.
I gotta think a bit on the 3rd question, but generally I opt for the lurker way if I have taken damage early or if hes opening up with a heavy zeal rush.
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Added a new VOD.
3hatch spire->5hatch hydra with BO and basic concepts
VOD : http://files.filefront.com/ZvP5hatchhydrawmv/;13501124;/fileinfo.html
Rep : http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=9188
BO : + Show Spoiler +BO
12 hatch (dronescout center)
11 pool
13 hatch @ 3rd
12 gas
11 2lings
16 overlord
18 lair
22 lingspeed
22 overlord
30 2lings
30 overlord
32 spire
38 hatch
37 Overlord
37 hatch
36 Overlord
36 Overlord
36 Evo chamber
35 Overlord
40 second gas
39 Hydra den
(might have missed a few lings in the high 30s and some scourge but it gets hard to hold perfect track of what you build) Also remember non stop drone production in between the rest of the BO. The goal of this build is to make as many drones possible with the least amount of defense needed.
The game itself is bad, but I don`t really talk about it and try to stick to the build order and general basic concepts of the build. Will try to make a new VOD soon to bring up topics like how to adept your initial build to what the P is doing, hive timing, followups after the opening battle.
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Added the build order transcript for the latest VOD now.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
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Thanks alot of the answers bro.
I think starting +1melee/2+carpace at the same time is exactly what I need to do. Also I think speed -> hive directly is also what I was looking for.
Last night luxury vs jangbi showed me some of the exact things your telling me.
I open overpool to force cannons, but I avoid gas until 15 (after third hat) so that I can achieve 3 base-5 hat economy as quickly as possible incase of very zealot heavy terran early-midgame
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Oystein, sincerely enjoyed these. As a C toss things like this are just what I am looking for to try and improve.
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hey thanks alot dude helped alot
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Thank you so much for preparing these VODs for the community and answering our questions. I hope you're ready for more (=.
Do you skip templar energy upgrade?
For the 1-gate expo andromeda build, is it critical that the initial 2-3 zealots inflict economic damage? Or does it still ok if the zerg anticipates and prepares defenses because min/larvae that went into sunk/lings instead of drones even things out somewhat?
I'm sure many other pvz players including myself would prioritize the +1weapons/2 archon demonstration, but in the future, could you also demonstrate 1) 1gate tech 2)FE into sair/reaver and 3)dealing with very early hydra/(maybe lurk) contain/break when starting with FE. Particularly what to look or the timing/supply to break out at when contained at two bases. Sometimes it's just difficult to gauge how many hydra/lurks the opponent has.
On March 17 2009 12:46 Oystein wrote:
What does alt do? If you mean the colors yeah I always change them to green\red unless I forget it.
I think -_- was talking about alt+hotkey group centers the screen on the hotkeyed group.
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Awesome! Thanks for doing another Zerg FPVOD!
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Great thread. Thanks a lot!
btw whats the software that you record your FPVOD?
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Do you skip templar energy upgrade?
Yes I usually skip it, tho you get an extra storm if you save it up to max I most of the time find myself using my storms before I reach 200 mana. However it is great for defending expos having 3 storms instead of the 2 you normally have. In long drawn out games where money is not an issue I often upgrade it, but I rarely do it in regular games.
For the 1-gate expo andromeda build, is it critical that the initial 2-3 zealots inflict economic damage? Or does it still ok if the zerg anticipates and prepares defenses because min/larvae that went into sunk/lings instead of drones even things out somewhat?
No not at all, if you are able to that is just a bonus. Most of the time the Zerg will scout you moving out and add more lings\sunkens and that is eco damage just there. Often I will pressure with 3-5 lots and not really attack just force him to spend money on lings and sunks that normally would have gone into drones. The real strength of the 1gate expo builds shows against pool first builds, say your crossmap and he opens up overpool speed and don`t scout you until after his speed is finished and he have 12 lings that can`t do anything with a broken economy. Also the attack timings are pretty different than regular FE and will often throw the Zergs of their timings. In this game I opted for a quick 3rd, vs pool first openings I usually go for sairs and quick 1+ speedzeals from 4 gates, and they will usually hit just before lurks are finished or mutas pops.
I'm sure many other pvz players including myself would prioritize the +1weapons/2 archon demonstration, but in the future, could you also demonstrate 1) 1gate tech 2)FE into sair/reaver and 3)dealing with very early hydra/(maybe lurk) contain/break when starting with FE. Particularly what to look or the timing/supply to break out at when contained at two bases. Sometimes it's just difficult to gauge how many hydra/lurks the opponent has.
Will try to get around to do the zeal\archon soon. Will have the others in mind when I do recordings in the future also.
I think -_- was talking about alt+hotkey group centers the screen on the hotkeyed group.
Ah no I don`t do that, I just double tap the hotkey assigned to that group.
Great thread. Thanks a lot!
btw whats the software that you record your FPVOD?
Camtasia for recording video, audacity for audio, virtual dub to compress the video and Windows movie maker to put it all together.
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With templar energy, not only you improve the energy pool of templars but they will start with 62.5 energy instead of 50 so they can do a storm as soon as they arrive at the rally point. Consider this!
In a very tight game where the opponent goes mass hydra and the positions are close this can save your life.
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I recall Nony specifically telling players to get templar energy due to it allowing templars to fire a storm faster after they come out of a gateway.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
On March 25 2009 02:53 freelander wrote:
With templar energy, not only you improve the energy pool of templars but they will start with 62.5 energy instead of 50 so they can do a storm as soon as they arrive at the rally point. Consider this!
In a very tight game where the opponent goes mass hydra and the positions are close this can save your life.
I really didn't know that! Awesome, no reason not to research energy now
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On March 25 2009 03:35 koreasilver wrote:
I recall Nony specifically telling players to get templar energy due to it allowing templars to fire a storm faster after they come out of a gateway.
Yeah I know that, however with the amount of time it takes to research + the fact that that could have been another HT and zeal in your army I usually don`t research it unless I get to 3 bases or something and money really isn't that much of an issue. But as mentioned before its a good upgrade to research once you can afford it.
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On March 25 2009 04:40 ahswtini wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2009 02:53 freelander wrote:
With templar energy, not only you improve the energy pool of templars but they will start with 62.5 energy instead of 50 so they can do a storm as soon as they arrive at the rally point. Consider this!
In a very tight game where the opponent goes mass hydra and the positions are close this can save your life. I really didn't know that! Awesome, no reason not to research energy now
A good reason is that if you get it off of 2 base, that extra storm+zealot could have actually won you a battle or help secure your third.
Imagine a muta sniping spree that kills 4 temps after you start upgrading it.
Now your stuck as hydra/lurker holds the map and zerg takes an extra base.
situationally its good, not automatically!
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Wow... Loved the Zerg VOD's! Awesome stuff. I'm still new to competitive SC, and just lost to Proxy Gates on iCCup yesterday, so knowing how to break that is great!
Despite that, ZvP is my best match-up, (I think), so I wanted to ask for just some more ZvT, and even Zerg Mirror-matches, just if/when you come across them, to see how to better deal with them in general, especially the Zerg Mirrors. I'm really poor in ZvZ... =(
I'm still really new, so I wanted to ask also, how/when do you decide to put up your third hatchery? I find that whenever I play, it seems like I always end up either putting it up too soon or too late... But when I think I'm doing it too soon, the timing for it feels right, but I lose my third base/hatch anyway. Is that just bad macro/production/map-control/whatever on my part?
Your VOD's have given this lowly newbie a lot to think about, keep up the good work!
P.S. : Oh yeah, and how many drones do you figure you end up with per mineral patch? I tend to settle around 1.5 drones, but I'm guessing some builds, like the 5 Hatch Hydra, might require more saturation?
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On March 25 2009 07:26 MedicAir wrote:
Wow... Loved the Zerg VOD's! Awesome stuff. I'm still new to competitive SC, and just lost to Proxy Gates on iCCup yesterday, so knowing how to break that is great!
Despite that, ZvP is my best match-up, (I think), so I wanted to ask for just some more ZvT, and even Zerg Mirror-matches, just if/when you come across them, to see how to better deal with them in general, especially the Zerg Mirrors. I'm really poor in ZvZ... =(
I'm still really new, so I wanted to ask also, how/when do you decide to put up your third hatchery? I find that whenever I play, it seems like I always end up either putting it up too soon or too late... But when I think I'm doing it too soon, the timing for it feels right, but I lose my third base/hatch anyway. Is that just bad macro/production/map-control/whatever on my part?
Your VOD's have given this lowly newbie a lot to think about, keep up the good work!
P.S. : Oh yeah, and how many drones do you figure you end up with per mineral patch? I tend to settle around 1.5 drones, but I'm guessing some builds, like the 5 Hatch Hydra, might require more saturation?
Sorry can`t help you with ZvZ, since I don`t play that matchup.
Generally you want to place your 3rd hatch at 13 supply if you do a regular 3hatch build before gas. Not sure what matchup you are referring to but in ZvP if you scout with a drone at the same time you place your first expansion hatchery you should have checked all positions in time to decide where to put your 3rd hatch. If hes fast exping you wanna place it at a 3rd base, but if hes 2gating or 1gate teching you want to place it in your main or at your natural. In ZvT you wanna place your 3rd hatchery somewhere in your main base.
1,5 drones sounds about right for a standard macrogame yeah, depends what kind of build you are using. With the 5hatch hydra build you naturally end up with a lot of drones before you start unit production.
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Brilliant, thanks!
No big loss on the ZvZ stuff, I threw down some info in another thread on here for training partners. Consistently get stomped by the guys who ask to play, but that's why I asked for people who beat me to try to give me pointers. =) One of them happens to be a Zerg player, so that went well, and I was able to try to mess around with and feel out some of the VOD stuff, mostly just the opening BO's.
I guess though, if your awesomeness isn't into ZvZ, that I'd like to request a longer ZvT/P game, where you go into a little more depth with timing (in general), and strategy, and any tech-switches/other adapting you have to do and some kind of explanation on how exactly to make that work. If/When you run into a game like that that you manage to record, please, PLEASE for my benefeit, post it. I've improved so much in the last few weeks, but I'm running out of reading material and VODs, and I practice a decent amount, but I learn and improve best when it's a constant intake of information of all kinds, including experience, and that would be benefeited greatly by learning how to better transition my tech-switches (They've never felt right, like grinding the gears on a car,) when I'm able to last that long into a game, and how to profit the most from my investment.
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we all really appreciate your vods as anything that helps people become better at starcraft is always a great thing but i have to say that your 5 hatch build is pretty, for lack of better word, wrong. i mean you have to build about 3 control groups of hydras then a round of drones to replace those you've used for buildings. i saw you make the drones but you didn't mention it in the video and a lot of newbie zerg players in the end game will end up with 6-7 drones mining @ a base and you're really missing out on a lot of units that way. also the mutas are very important to assault the protoss main briefly to force more cannons and possibly archon production and then to pick off high templars. also creating a few scourge placed at proper locations to pick off drop ship harassment and having lings at every expansion to make sure the protoss isn't cannoning the ridge line and sending a high templar there with storm because if this happens you will not be able to pick off the 3rd without sacrificing enough of your army to become vulnerable to a counter.
i know this sounds "nit picky" and no one plays perfect but understand i'm not criticizing your play i'm just saying these things are all worth mentioning. they are all really crucial parts of this build and are vital to its success. the 5 hatch build for zerg is a really tough thing to master but once you have a grasp on the timings of everything you can ride this one build(given proper micro & macro)all the way to as high rank as your capable of. this is really the zerg version of the flash build because even when the enemy knows this is whats coming its really hard to stop when done properly.
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On March 26 2009 00:03 niin wrote:
we all really appreciate your vods as anything that helps people become better at starcraft is always a great thing but i have to say that your 5 hatch build is pretty, for lack of better word, wrong. i mean you have to build about 3 control groups of hydras then a round of drones to replace those you've used for buildings. i saw you make the drones but you didn't mention it in the video and a lot of newbie zerg players in the end game will end up with 6-7 drones mining @ a base and you're really missing out on a lot of units that way. also the mutas are very important to assault the protoss main briefly to force more cannons and possibly archon production and then to pick off high templars. also creating a few scourge placed at proper locations to pick off drop ship harassment and having lings at every expansion to make sure the protoss isn't cannoning the ridge line and sending a high templar there with storm because if this happens you will not be able to pick off the 3rd without sacrificing enough of your army to become vulnerable to a counter.
i know this sounds "nit picky" and no one plays perfect but understand i'm not criticizing your play i'm just saying these things are all worth mentioning. they are all really crucial parts of this build and are vital to its success. the 5 hatch build for zerg is a really tough thing to master but once you have a grasp on the timings of everything you can ride this one build(given proper micro & macro)all the way to as high rank as your capable of. this is really the zerg version of the flash build because even when the enemy knows this is whats coming its really hard to stop when done properly.
Hmm maybe I forgot to mention it, but I am doing another VOD on the build later where I will try to get more into eco management and the kind of followups you can do after the initial rounds of hydras. Also if you do the build like I do in the VOD your not gonna end up with 6-7 drones, I did not start hydras before I was at close to 40 drones. Of course if he goes for a quicker zeal rush or something you have to adjust and start hydras before, and then its more important to do drone rounds whenever possible, but I have planned to talk more about that in the next VOD and other more advanced things about the build.
About the mutas you don`t HAVE to make them in the 5hatch hydra build, sure they are a viable option and can be very strong if you are able to snipe of HTs or catch his main without to many cannons. But there is no "rule" that you have to make them, lurkers are a very viable option as I will hopefully show in my next VOD.
As for the other things, yeah I guess I should have mentioned them. I guess it just feels so natural to me to put lords on every position once I get speed for my lords and place any leftover scourge in drop positions that I forgot to mention it. Will try to cover it in the next one, like I said the first one I only covered the build order and some of the basic concepts of the build. I am away for some days now, but I will try to make another VOD covering more stuff next week.
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I've got another question for you Oystein. Now, I know going into a game, they always say, "Have a game-plan," meaning an opening strategy or idea concerning how you want to handle things...
When you're making these VOD's, do you just wait for a game where you can try the strategy you want to talk about or that someone's requested, or do you just try it anyway, regardless of the outcome?
*Imagines Mass Muta's vs a Sair/Reaver Protoss...*
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Dominican Republic825 Posts
hi Oystein
can you do PvZ,PvP,PvT General Tips?? like Stylish TvP General Tips!!
i would be Great to know some tips about everything
i know this takes time and dedication but i need General tips
i mean thinks like this:
""I recall Nony specifically telling players to get templar energy due to it allowing templars to fire a storm faster after they come out of a gateway""
i didnt know that...
thx
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I just wanted to point out, I don't think it's been mentioned yet...
That your pvz @ andro is against sksports.
I noticed a few days ago that according to ICCup who is who season 8
skports is a Korean amature
aka: Answer[jOin]
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On March 26 2009 17:20 TaP.Nuada wrote:I just wanted to point out, I don't think it's been mentioned yet... That your pvz @ andro is against sksports. I noticed a few days ago that according to ICCup who is who season 8skports is a Korean amature aka: Answer[jOin]
Yeah he was at the latest draft, I was hoping he would get picked up by a team so I could say I had beaten a progamer
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On March 26 2009 06:25 MedicAir wrote:
I've got another question for you Oystein. Now, I know going into a game, they always say, "Have a game-plan," meaning an opening strategy or idea concerning how you want to handle things...
When you're making these VOD's, do you just wait for a game where you can try the strategy you want to talk about or that someone's requested, or do you just try it anyway, regardless of the outcome?
*Imagines Mass Muta's vs a Sair/Reaver Protoss...*
I usually have a gameplan going into the game, but I always try to adept to what I scout in any given game. Often I end up recording lots of games that I discard because my opponent does things that force me to play differently, recording 5-10 games to get 1 to use as a VOD is not uncommon.
hi Oystein
can you do PvZ,PvP,PvT General Tips?? like Stylish TvP General Tips!!
i would be Great to know some tips about everything
i know this takes time and dedication but i need General tips
i mean thinks like this:
""I recall Nony specifically telling players to get templar energy due to it allowing templars to fire a storm faster after they come out of a gateway""
i didnt know that...
thx
Maybe I will do one later, have a few projects I wanna do first but I will think about it. Also I don`t really play PvP so my advices there will not be as good and accurate as the other matchups.
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Hey Oystien. What would you say be a good counter against 10/15 gate as terran. Would the strong fd push be able to stop that?
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Nice vods Oystein, are you a terran "and" a zerg player? or just pick Terran versus zerg only?
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For the ZvT on Colli, was that an iccup game? what was the terran guy's rank? He seemed pretty bad, most terrans would have just traded attacks on that first move (thats my years of Z experience anyways). And when he saw ur expo up top most T would have instantly sent a small group of MnM, and he even had a shuttle to do that too. Terrans do this more than often so much as well that I've gotten accustomed to sending 2 lurkers to hatches before they finish.
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Good fpvods, adding the replays and bos is also nice. How about adding some pvz forge fe builds and some pvp builds.
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What a kickass thread,incredible work oystein.This should be the guide for anyone who wants to take bw a little more serious. I hope you have back ups for those packs,cause filefront gonna shut down I heard :p
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The T you played in the PvT was so bad... you should show that build vs a better player next so you can demonstrate how to adapt to 2 fact, drops, and just all around better T macro
Nice stuff though^^
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Its hard getting the perfect game.
Usually it takes some tries recording because you want a representable VOD for your build or whatever you're going to show unless you just want to show skills.
And many times the opponent does something utterly stupid^^
Anyway what I'm trying to say, once you've recorded a VOD that fall into representation of your purpose then you have to go with it. Hopefully you faced a good opponent, but not always.
Since most games played are vs random opponents on ICCup you can never be certain of his skill.
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On March 27 2009 00:10 ZeKk wrote:
Hey Oystien. What would you say be a good counter against 10/15 gate as terran. Would the strong fd push be able to stop that?
The strong FD push is the opening that have been giving me the most troubles when doing the 10\15 when microed well it even pushes the 10\15 back. Have not played much vs dropship play but I think it can give some troubles especially on a map like Medusa with cliff behind your main.
@ CharlieMurphy
Not sure what his rank was, but I think most of my games are recorded vs B- or higher opponents. Don`t I mention the rank in the beginning of the VOD for the game?
@ Logicgosu
On my to do list, its coming. I am away now, but hopefully I will get around doing it next week.
@ Louder
What PvT VOD? I assume its the Destination game, yeah the game wasnt the best but it was one of the first one I recorded. And like Stylish says finding good games to make commentaries for can be pretty hard. Its always a decision what kind of VOD you want to use also. Do you want a close entertaining game? Do you want a build showing how the build works when performed perfectly? Do you want a game just vs strong opposition? As for the level of my opponents I usually stick to making the VODs at B- and higher to get respectable opponents, but that don`t guarantee the quality of the play from my opponents in any given game.
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Dominican Republic825 Posts
hi Oystein some question for you
What should I scout for with my initial Probe?
what do you see to know if a terran will do 2 Fact rush or 4 marine+Vult+tank Rush?
i have troubles guessing the opening of a terran
i know if they put SVC back to mineral means they will do CC
but if your probe dies how do you know what he will do??
thnx for your time
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Dominican Republic825 Posts
hey Oystein where are you??
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Sorry been away visiting some friends in another city the last week so have not checked in often here.
You often have to make guesses from limited info if you can`t scout them early properly. If the map is flat like longinus and Medusa you can usually expect FD or 2fact if he don`t wall off. If he walls of you can usually get info by attacking his wall with your goons, if he gets Siege quickly you can safely assume he is either doing Siege\expand or 1fact\dropship. If he gets up to 2 tanks without Siege there is a good chance hes going 2fact.
Like you said yourself, looking for how many SCVs he pulls of gas gives you an indication. But often on ramped maps you end up not scouting what the T is doing at all. When this happens I leave a probe at their natural and see what they move out with or if they float out a cc. If I see them moving out with a typical 2fact army, I usually cancel my expo if I have started it and just defend my ramp with whatever I have.
At the end you often gonna end up having to make educated guesses on what the Terran is doing. Also you can do builds that gives you the initiative if you can`t scout the T like going 1base reaver or just play it safe and do 2gate or an obs build or simply work more on your early game micro to be able to do 1gate expo builds vs FD and sometimes even hold vs 2fact builds.
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Dominican Republic825 Posts
ok you told
~~If I see them moving out with a typical 2fact army, I usually cancel my expo if I have started it and just defend my ramp with whatever I have. ~~
but when you cancel that nexus do you put Gates or add Robo? or just wait to brake the push
and then expand?
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On April 01 2009 13:27 LuisMl8 wrote:
ok you told
~~If I see them moving out with a typical 2fact army, I usually cancel my expo if I have started it and just defend my ramp with whatever I have. ~~
but when you cancel that nexus do you put Gates or add Robo? or just wait to brake the push
and then expand?
Yeah if I cancel I add Robo and 2 gates. Your not breaking a 2fact push from 1gate, its a fair chance you will outright die from it also, but with some good goonmicro on your ramp and probes if needed its possible to defend. If its on a flat map I don`t cancel and just try to survive somehow.
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Oystein i would have a quiestion to you. I'm a zerg payer and i often do double hatch befor pool if i see my opponent going forge-fast expand, i know it's not too common, so i dont know if you can give me and advise regarding this. I go 4 hatch hydra bust or 3 hatch lair standard play from there. I dont really know when to get my first gas. I guess for the 3 hatch lair apllies the 12 extarctro rule of the 3hatchspire5hatch hydra build, what about the other one?
Thank you
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On April 01 2009 23:19 Geo.Rion wrote:
Oystein i would have a quiestion to you. I'm a zerg payer and i often do double hatch befor pool if i see my opponent going forge-fast expand, i know it's not too common, so i dont know if you can give me and advise regarding this. I go 4 hatch hydra bust or 3 hatch lair standard play from there. I dont really know when to get my first gas. I guess for the 3 hatch lair apllies the 12 extarctro rule of the 3hatchspire5hatch hydra build, what about the other one?
Thank you
I don`t really like the 3hatch before pool opening for the specific reasoning that the P can and should cannon rush you if you do it. Even if you scout it you have to pull drones to defend and that seriously messes up your timings and delays everything you are doing, or if they simply do 2 fast gates and just non stop sends zeals keeping you from massing drones like you really want to do. If I do it I usually opt for going for a 4th hatch before taking my gas and go into a hydra heavy play, but I guess it sort of depends what you scout the P doing, if hes teching fast I would try to delay the gas for as long as possible. However if hes doing more aggressive gateway builds I would get the gas sooner rather than later to get the hydra upgrades asap. But like I said I have tried experimenting with 3hatch before pool and come to the conclusion that regular play is better suited for me at least, and therefor I can`t really give a definitive answer to your questions.
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Dominican Republic825 Posts
thx u a lot Oystein ^^
keep the good work up!!
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Dominican Republic825 Posts
Oystein in PvZ when you do a normal BO Nexus+Forge
what do you normally tech up after you see the Z base?
do you put Gateways Down after you see it or before?
can you give us some General tips in PvZ
thx
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These videos are amazing Øystein! Thanks for doing this, you have no idea how helpful this is.
I hope you'll continue what you're doing
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Dominican Republic825 Posts
hi Oystein
i dont know how busy u are cause i dont see you posting often
anyway
what about if you makes FPvods of Every PvZ BO??
that will help a lot.... and now questions
1-in Protoss Vs Terran when do you Get leg Speed(when his adding Fact??) and same in PvP.
2- When do you think is Safe to take a 4th?? maps like andro and Desti in PvT??
3-PvP in a normal BO 2gate Robo+reaver into Expa... when do you begins to make
Zealot and Leg?
4-in PvZ HangBang means a Push with 110-130 Supply? what is the Army Mix in a HangBang
how many HT?? how many Goons?? Obs?? Zealot??
5- do you Get Obs Speed or Range vs Z and T?? and When??
and
Can you Make a FPVods Doing Reaver Micro Vs P and T, its really hard to me.
every game i try Reaver i lost!!
thanks Oystein
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Could you do some protoss micro games? A vod of those would be really appreciated.
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On April 09 2009 12:16 LuisMl8 wrote:
hi Oystein
i dont know how busy u are cause i dont see you posting often
anyway
what about if you makes FPvods of Every PvZ BO??
that will help a lot.... and now questions
1-in Protoss Vs Terran when do you Get leg Speed(when his adding Fact??) and same in PvP.
2- When do you think is Safe to take a 4th?? maps like andro and Desti in PvT??
3-PvP in a normal BO 2gate Robo+reaver into Expa... when do you begins to make
Zealot and Leg?
4-in PvZ HangBang means a Push with 110-130 Supply? what is the Army Mix in a HangBang
how many HT?? how many Goons?? Obs?? Zealot??
5- do you Get Obs Speed or Range vs Z and T?? and When??
and
Can you Make a FPVods Doing Reaver Micro Vs P and T, its really hard to me.
every game i try Reaver i lost!!
thanks Oystein
Sorry Iv just been doing other stuff lately, Easter in Norway = skiing for most people. So the last week I have spent mostly in my family's cabin in the woods and cross country skiing in the woods\mountains around here.
I will try to get around making more VODs after Easter, hopefully covering some PvZ.
1. As late as possible, usually around the same time I start zeal production, in most games after about 20ish goons. All depends what the T is doing, if hes playing aggro from 2 base I make speed quicker, if he takes quick third I make it later. To put it easy, I start it right before I think hes about to move out (for example when I see hes unsieging his cliff tanks) and when I do I also start zeal production.
2. Depends what build you open up with, I often open up with quick expos and play rather "risky" so I will often take the 4th pretty fast. As for safe, I guess once you have gotten your macro up and running from your gates from 3 bases. Also on desti the min only behind your nat can be taken pretty quickly since you don`t need any extra defenses there if you have taken your 3rd in front of it.
3. I don`t play a lot of PvP, but I usually start my legspeed around the same time I start zeal production and I start zeal once I am at about 5-6 gates or around 2 groups of goons.
4. Way to general question, your army mix should be made from what you scout the Zerg doing, usually no more than 4-5hts since you most of the time will not be able to throw of more storms than from 3-4 hts in a battle. However a good rule of thumb is that you usually want a well mixed P army regardless of what you are playing against.
5. I never upgrade Observers in PvZ unless I am under a heavy lurker contain and then I usually do range. As for PvT, I don`t upgrade speed as often as I should, but most of the time I am pretty good at moving my obser in front of my army manually. However when I do upgrade it, its usually after I am up on 3 bases and I don`t feel I need to spend those money elsewhere. Say for instance I go fast arbiters I will pretty much never get the upgrade unless I get to a point where I have an excess of mins\gas.
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On April 04 2009 10:21 Oystein wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2009 23:19 Geo.Rion wrote:
Oystein i would have a quiestion to you. I'm a zerg payer and i often do double hatch befor pool if i see my opponent going forge-fast expand, i know it's not too common, so i dont know if you can give me and advise regarding this. I go 4 hatch hydra bust or 3 hatch lair standard play from there. I dont really know when to get my first gas. I guess for the 3 hatch lair apllies the 12 extarctro rule of the 3hatchspire5hatch hydra build, what about the other one?
Thank you I don`t really like the 3hatch before pool opening for the specific reasoning that the P can and should cannon rush you if you do it. Even if you scout it you have to pull drones to defend and that seriously messes up your timings and delays everything you are doing, or if they simply do 2 fast gates and just non stop sends zeals keeping you from massing drones like you really want to do. If I do it I usually opt for going for a 4th hatch before taking my gas and go into a hydra heavy play, but I guess it sort of depends what you scout the P doing, if hes teching fast I would try to delay the gas for as long as possible. However if hes doing more aggressive gateway builds I would get the gas sooner rather than later to get the hydra upgrades asap. But like I said I have tried experimenting with 3hatch before pool and come to the conclusion that regular play is better suited for me at least, and therefor I can`t really give a definitive answer to your questions.
ofc he tries to cannon rush you, put one drone on that probe, and you're safe. You can even bait it for a bit to force an attempt that you scout immediatly and he cancels the pylon. But more important, 4th htach befor gas you say, hmm, i will have to try it, thank you
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Why do you go 12 asim 14 cyber core? I always go 11 asim and 13 cyber core now because it just is faster and it doesn't stop your econ if you are perfect in doing other stuff(like splits)
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Dominican Republic825 Posts
On April 10 2009 05:40 Oystein wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2009 12:16 LuisMl8 wrote:
hi Oystein
i dont know how busy u are cause i dont see you posting often
anyway
what about if you makes FPvods of Every PvZ BO??
that will help a lot.... and now questions
1-in Protoss Vs Terran when do you Get leg Speed(when his adding Fact??) and same in PvP.
2- When do you think is Safe to take a 4th?? maps like andro and Desti in PvT??
3-PvP in a normal BO 2gate Robo+reaver into Expa... when do you begins to make
Zealot and Leg?
4-in PvZ HangBang means a Push with 110-130 Supply? what is the Army Mix in a HangBang
how many HT?? how many Goons?? Obs?? Zealot??
5- do you Get Obs Speed or Range vs Z and T?? and When??
and
Can you Make a FPVods Doing Reaver Micro Vs P and T, its really hard to me.
every game i try Reaver i lost!!
thanks Oystein Sorry Iv just been doing other stuff lately, Easter in Norway = skiing for most people. So the last week I have spent mostly in my family's cabin in the woods and cross country skiing in the woods\mountains around here. I will try to get around making more VODs after Easter, hopefully covering some PvZ. 1. As late as possible, usually around the same time I start zeal production, in most games after about 20ish goons. All depends what the T is doing, if hes playing aggro from 2 base I make speed quicker, if he takes quick third I make it later. To put it easy, I start it right before I think hes about to move out (for example when I see hes unsieging his cliff tanks) and when I do I also start zeal production. 2. Depends what build you open up with, I often open up with quick expos and play rather "risky" so I will often take the 4th pretty fast. As for safe, I guess once you have gotten your macro up and running from your gates from 3 bases. Also on desti the min only behind your nat can be taken pretty quickly since you don`t need any extra defenses there if you have taken your 3rd in front of it. 3. I don`t play a lot of PvP, but I usually start my legspeed around the same time I start zeal production and I start zeal once I am at about 5-6 gates or around 2 groups of goons. 4. Way to general question, your army mix should be made from what you scout the Zerg doing, usually no more than 4-5hts since you most of the time will not be able to throw of more storms than from 3-4 hts in a battle. However a good rule of thumb is that you usually want a well mixed P army regardless of what you are playing against. 5. I never upgrade Observers in PvZ unless I am under a heavy lurker contain and then I usually do range. As for PvT, I don`t upgrade speed as often as I should, but most of the time I am pretty good at moving my obser in front of my army manually. However when I do upgrade it, its usually after I am up on 3 bases and I don`t feel I need to spend those money elsewhere. Say for instance I go fast arbiters I will pretty much never get the upgrade unless I get to a point where I have an excess of mins\gas.
+ Show Spoiler +
thx Oystein you Rock!!
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thank you for these, ive already extracted most of these from your replay packs but its always good to hear in your own words your reasoning for things, and of course the triggers for changing things up in your mind. Thank you
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Hey oyster I'm just posting to say:
TRAIN FOR YOUR TOURNAMENT PLEASE!
Don't be unprepared okay?
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On April 10 2009 06:37 Racenilatr wrote:
Why do you go 12 asim 14 cyber core? I always go 11 asim and 13 cyber core now because it just is faster and it doesn't stop your econ if you are perfect in doing other stuff(like splits)
Depends on when I scout and what build I am using. When doing 1gate builds I don`t notice any difference really. However I do it when I do the 10\15 build, or if I scout after my gas or core. To put it easy, if I can do 11\13 without having to cut probes I do it, if I scout after pylon or gateway I usually do 12\14, its really not a big difference.
Hey oyster I'm just posting to say:
TRAIN FOR YOUR TOURNAMENT PLEASE!
Don't be unprepared okay?
Unlike most people, JF and me actually showed up at the arranged time and played our game last weekend, so no need to practice more until they schedule my next opponent and map. Also breaks like this is good
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Yes but now when we play I will crush you like an ant okay?
not serious.
but as far as I'm concerned there are 2 types of starcraft paths, the way of the night (pm rekrul) or the way of the light (idra) one gets you laid and payed and the other.......
pm rekrul ^^.
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Dominican Republic825 Posts
On April 12 2009 02:48 Oystein wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2009 06:37 Racenilatr wrote:
Why do you go 12 asim 14 cyber core? I always go 11 asim and 13 cyber core now because it just is faster and it doesn't stop your econ if you are perfect in doing other stuff(like splits) Depends on when I scout and what build I am using. When doing 1gate builds I don`t notice any difference really. However I do it when I do the 10\15 build, or if I scout after my gas or core. To put it easy, if I can do 11\13 without having to cut probes I do it, if I scout after pylon or gateway I usually do 12\14, its really not a big difference. Show nested quote +Hey oyster I'm just posting to say:
TRAIN FOR YOUR TOURNAMENT PLEASE!
Don't be unprepared okay? Unlike most people, JF and me actually showed up at the arranged time and played our game last weekend, so no need to practice more until they schedule my next opponent and map. Also breaks like this is good
Oystein where are the new FPVODS PVZ??
i cant wait
and remember to do PvZ and PvT GENERAL TIPS ALSO!!!
GL on your Tournament
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really appreciate your zerg vods dude!
moar plz >:D
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Dominican Republic825 Posts
Oystein other Question for you
i have saw many toss going Pure Goon+Zealot Heavy Vs TErran without Shutter or albiters
and later on they Add Albiters
what is the perpuse of doing only Goon+Zealot ???
this is a BO to fight 5 Factory Timming?
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Dominican Republic825 Posts
here are you??
your Post is Dying
because you arent here
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On the follow-up you use for the 10/15, with DT drops and Arbiters, do you think that will still be effective on Neo Medusa with its buildable middle?
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Oystein, these are great man. I can't wait for more PvZ VODs.
Thanks for makin these.
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i cant download the VOD of of fiel front T_T.. .im lost
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On April 20 2009 00:35 LuisMl8 wrote:here are you?? your Post is Dying because you arent here
Been busy with other things lately so haven't played that much, and when I have played its mostly just been ranking up new accounts for ASL\VAL so there have not really been many good matches and I did not record many of them anyway.
On the follow-up you use for the 10/15, with DT drops and Arbiters, do you think that will still be effective on Neo Medusa with its buildable middle?
Not as effective as on the old map, but it still should work out pretty good since he can`t really move out until he have dealt with your DT drop, and by that time your first arb should be about finished and you can meet him far out on the map making him slowly leapfrog himself forward. The only real difference is that now Terrans probably will be more inclined to do a fast push build ala the 6fact push since they can build the middle, but I still think that most Ts will take a quick 3rd on this new version of the map also.
Oystein, these are great man. I can't wait for more PvZ VODs.
Thanks for makin these.
Maybe I will make a PvZ tonight, I know iv been talking about making one for ages now but things have sort of just gotten in the way and I don`t really have many games at the moment ready to make a commentary for. Only thing I have right now is a 1gate tech build at Rush Hour and a few 1gate expo builds. Im gonna start recording more games again and see if I can`t get a good FE game recorded, so stay tuned.
i cant download the VOD of of fiel front T_T.. .im lost
Dunno whats wrong, it worked fine for me when I tried to download one just now.
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On April 22 2009 07:16 Oystein wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2009 00:35 LuisMl8 wrote:here are you?? your Post is Dying because you arent here Been busy with other things lately so haven't played that much, and when I have played its mostly just been ranking up new accounts for ASL\VAL so there have not really been many good matches and I did not record many of them anyway. Show nested quote +On the follow-up you use for the 10/15, with DT drops and Arbiters, do you think that will still be effective on Neo Medusa with its buildable middle? Not as effective as on the old map, but it still should work out pretty good since he can`t really move out until he have dealt with your DT drop, and by that time your first arb should be about finished and you can meet him far out on the map making him slowly leapfrog himself forward. The only real difference is that now Terrans probably will be more inclined to do a fast push build ala the 6fact push since they can build the middle, but I still think that most Ts will take a quick 3rd on this new version of the map also. Show nested quote +Oystein, these are great man. I can't wait for more PvZ VODs.
Thanks for makin these. Maybe I will make a PvZ tonight, I know iv been talking about making one for ages now but things have sort of just gotten in the way and I don`t really have many games at the moment ready to make a commentary for. Only thing I have right now is a 1gate tech build at Rush Hour and a few 1gate expo builds. Im gonna start recording more games again and see if I can`t get a good FE game recorded, so stay tuned. Dunno whats wrong, it worked fine for me when I tried to download one just now.
Well When I have the page up it looks like the homepage for file front.. please direct me?
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Dominican Republic825 Posts
hi
Oystein; in a PvP when so one makes a Cheese Build like this
what do you normally do
i dont usually know how to react to Cheese build
http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=11240
can you give me some reps or make some FpVods when you react to Cheese Builds
i am Re-Play- on that Game
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When i click the PvZ vod link it doesn't work. Anyone else have this problem?
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On May 01 2009 18:05 nomsayin wrote:
When i click the PvZ vod link it doesn't work. Anyone else have this problem?
Sorry seems like filefront have deleted the file for inactivity, they sometimes do that and give you like 4 days to cancel the deletion, but sometimes I don`t notice it in time
I was thinking about making a revised version of the build for gods garden or any map with 2 gases behind the ramp, so I guess this could make me get of my ass and actually make it.
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Dominican Republic825 Posts
Oystein my post arent important?
you didnt answer my questions
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Calgary25974 Posts
I'd like to add this to the recommended threads, but I'm not sure how to since you play very specific matchups. Any suggestions?
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On June 21 2009 00:10 Chill wrote:
I'd like to add this to the recommended threads, but I'm not sure how to since you play very specific matchups. Any suggestions?
Maybe make a new header for fpVODs/audios(resources that are not a written guide)?
You might want to add this fpVOD compilation thread too: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=86665
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Awesome stuff there Oystein, why is there no STOVE STRAT!
Hah kidding. Good job mate. Great to watch.
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Hi, really sorry to bump this, but i need to get my hands on these. Looked in the thread and nothing.
Do any of you who have these vods can upload them somewhere fresh?
I would greatly appreciate it, thanx. If you have all of them it would be really great. The only ones i found (i actually had them from way back) are the PvT dt drop into arbiter and the beating a maxed army on colosseum, cause they where uploaded to yt
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I want to know if he's still playing any poker and where I can find something teaching vods for that.
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On February 18 2013 04:49 playa wrote:
I want to know if he's still playing any poker and where I can find something teaching vods for that.
i don't think he made teaching vods for poker
but it would be cool to see the other videos re uploaded.
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What rank was Oystein anyway?
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On February 18 2013 07:38 thezanursic wrote:
What rank was Oystein anyway?
I think B+ or A-.
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Please my friends help me out!
i will give you a Skype tebby bear hug 
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EPT
