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There are several ways to do a gateway-based pressure build in PvP. (Ignoring 2 gate before core builds, which obviously can apply a lot of early pressure.)
1 gate: If you open no-zealot core, you can pressure early because you have an extra goon and earlier goon range against a zcorez player. The correct response by the opponent is to stay up his ramp until goon range completes, but on a flat map, this can be quite threatening. You're not going to kill anyone this way unless they're terrible, but you may get some early damage off on their units, and perhaps force them to reveal their opening build or buy something defensive (second gateway/shield battery/AI pylons) they didn't want.
2 gate: A zcorez-->2gate cannot apply much pressure unless the opponent skips range or cuts gateway units, unless they're silly enough to expand off 1 gate. However, if you accelerate your goon production by cutting zealots and/or some probes and/or delaying probe scouting (extra early minerals), you can be surprisingly aggressive, possibly to the point of even containing another 2-4 gate goon build at its ramp or breaking a 1 gate tech build on a no-ramp map. I've not seen anyone use 10/15 in PvP, but it can be ferocious. You will have 3 dragoons when a zcorez player has one, and your range upgrade will be faster. (Susceptible to early zealot pressure, though, and with a low probe count you can't afford many losses.)
3 gate: Can apply plenty of pressure, usually designed to give you the faster expansion and be safe (and possibly contain at ramp) against anything but a DT opening. (And if you successfully notice a DT opening you may still be able to robo up, or break the front before DTs because the opponent went unit-light to tech so fast.)
4 gate: Not actually all-in (cheesy because it dies vs. DT), but you MUST contain your opponent at the entrance to his base if you fail to destroy him. He has more probes, so you will need to expand and let his money run out. As Darth noted, watch out for harass. (Also watch out for your opponent elevatoring his units out. When you expand, you may well have fewer units than your opponent as they're mining more minerals and haven't spent on a nexus, so you really rely on that contain to make your dragoons >> his dragoons. Speedlots are also a reasonable choice to break a contain, but since your opponent didn't open DT (or you wouldn't be in this position) it takes a while to get them and you'll probably be fine.)
It should be born in mind whenever you take an early edge in dragoon count, that while the top of a ramp is extremely defensible against dragoons (they miss HALF their shots shooting up a ramp), so is the bottom. Dragoons are very bad at moving up or down ramps, so if your army is focused on the spot they have to step out of? You can kill quite a few dragoons before his army is properly down the ramp to hit you. A dragoon force can contain a noticeably larger one, with a ramp in EITHER direction, if you can take the position. (Zealots help for breaking this sort of contain, because they absorb more hits + are cheaper + move more easily down a ramp.)
The other thing to bear in mind, if you do not have the early unit advantage (or range upgrade advantage) don't engage! I've murdered a lot of players for having one dragoon less than me (even if they're a zealot up) because they met me in the field before their build actually has units.
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The fact that this build insta-loses to DT makes it by definition all-in. I did this in the CSL last season, only I canceled a citadel instead of a robo... because a citadel is cheaper, and you generally want to force them into the direction of cannons/robo. Robo, if anything, will lead them to think you have an opening and go 3/4-gate goon themselves, which makes it a very hard fight.
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Dominican Republic825 Posts
On April 09 2010 11:49 MasterReY wrote:
4gate goon is all-in (your behind if you dont kill him early)
3gate goon is more save (you still have a quite normal economy and you can transfer in teching or expanding more easily)
I think both strats are only good on no-ramp maps like longinus and medusa.
3gate goons could be viable on other maps too but not really good.
On ramp maps, 2gate robo, 2gate expansion or 1gate tech are prolly better options.
what about heartbreaker?
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On April 09 2010 09:42 3FFA wrote:
Is this at all optimal? I just stumbled upon this and I was wondering whether this is just some all-in or if its actually viable.
You're contradicting yourself. Many allins are quite viable, they aren't mutually exclusive terms.
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On April 09 2010 17:11 love1another wrote:
The fact that this build insta-loses to DT makes it by definition all-in. I did this in the CSL last season, only I canceled a citadel instead of a robo... because a citadel is cheaper, and you generally want to force them into the direction of cannons/robo. Robo, if anything, will lead them to think you have an opening and go 3/4-gate goon themselves, which makes it a very hard fight.
4 gate goon isn't all-in. It loses straight up to a DT opening, which makes it risky/cheesy. But you do not have to break your opponent's main to win. A four gate goon build can still win if you only contain rather than kill your opponent.
On April 09 2010 20:01 Re-Play- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2010 11:49 MasterReY wrote:
4gate goon is all-in (your behind if you dont kill him early)
3gate goon is more save (you still have a quite normal economy and you can transfer in teching or expanding more easily)
I think both strats are only good on no-ramp maps like longinus and medusa.
3gate goons could be viable on other maps too but not really good.
On ramp maps, 2gate robo, 2gate expansion or 1gate tech are prolly better options. what about heartbreaker?
Heartbreak Ridge has a choke, but no ramp, and has a cliff to help you contain, which makes it pretty good for 4 gate goon. It's harder to break the opponent's main than on medusa or longinus, since those maps have very wide base entrances that you can just walk through, but 4 gate goon is certainly a viable build there.
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On April 10 2010 01:34 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2010 09:42 3FFA wrote:
Is this at all optimal? I just stumbled upon this and I was wondering whether this is just some all-in or if its actually viable. You're contradicting yourself. Many allins are quite viable, they aren't mutually exclusive terms.
Sorry. I didn't know what else to say besides viable. IDK, standard?
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Love this build. My first win vs a korean was 4 gate goons, he got dt's but i ended up winning by blocking my choke and getting a cannon. The dude was like C-
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On April 10 2010 05:41 HazMat wrote:
Love this build. My first win vs a korean was 4 gate goons, he got dt's but i ended up winning by blocking my choke and getting a cannon. The dude was like C-
LOL. Nice job.
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EPT
