Recently I've really gotten into old but still sexy maps such as Longinus II, Andromeda, and Rush Hour. I play on a C+/C level on Iccup and follow the proscene very closely. One match that particularly caught my eye was free[gm] vs Bisu Clubday MSL semi's set 2, when Free went for a 4 gate goon build.
Free completly ignored any higher tech and went straight 1gate/core -> 4 gates. Bisu on the other hand went for a standard 1 gate robo. This would give free a dragoon advantage, and if timed correctly would produce enough dragoons to attack the opponents base before the reaver/shuttle comes out. Free fucked up a bit and attacked before he could utilize the full effects of his 4 gates, but this had me thinking. The early goon/range advantage would give me earlier map control and possibly the game. I subsequently tried this build on Longinus II vs a very good B- toss player and to my suprise I completly ran over him.
Basically go for the standard 1 gate/core. I had originally put down a robo, but canceled when his scouting probe died. I placed 3 additional gates and rallied towards the center of the map. Once I had a full control group of goons ( around 2-3 rounds of goons ) i attacked. To my suprise, all he had was 2 zeals, 5 goons and a shuttle. ( He had expanded ) I ran over his army and danced my way into his main. After about a minute of probe raping he GG'ed.
I do not mean for this build to be an allin. I have played other PvP's where I have gone 4 gate goon, and the opponent has successfully blocked my attack. One of the factors that helped me stay in the game was that I did NOT stop my probe pump. Never keep pumping probes. Also, out of my 4 gate, i only produced about a control group of goons. As soon as the last round of goons came out, I immediatly set up my natural expansion. ( With 2 goons as defense ) I'm just using this 4 gate as a different alternative in PvP
***NOTE***
This strat is only for PvP. ( A terran wallin will screw with the early goon push, and a robo strat is a better idea vT, and why in hell would you go 4 gate goon vZ? ) From what i know, versus a 1 gate robo or 2 gate robo expand, this is a good counter build and a good allin. As in all PvP make sure you know what build your opponent is going. SCOUT SCOUT SCOUT. This build will EPIC FAIL vs a dt build.
On January 22 2009 05:40 T.O.P. wrote: It's a viable build on rampless maps like Medusa or Longinus. On a map like Python, the defender could just sit on top of his ramp.
but u still rape his expo.with good defence against reaver you still have an advantage. dt builds own you tho.
On January 22 2009 05:40 T.O.P. wrote: It's a viable build on rampless maps like Medusa or Longinus. On a map like Python, the defender could just sit on top of his ramp.
I think that yes, it would be a lot harder to assault up the ramp, but the sheer goon advantage SHOULD be enough to break the ramp block if you did not let your enemy see your strategy. I haven't tested this, I'm just speculating.
EDIT: And yes what other people have brought up is true - you would take their nat rather easily, and would have a few goons to spare for defense against reaver drop I believe.
No shit sherlock ;o But protosses usually go 2gate robo expand, and if you go obs first you usually make the nexus before you scout him, as if you didn't and he went 2g robo and expanded before obs, you would be in a severe disadvantage.
PvP is all about mind games, scouting (and counting opponents units) and sometimes also about good old rock paper scissors...
However if he doesn't he is dead the second his expansion is started.
So yes, it is a viable all-in and you should put it into your repertoir, but as every all-ins it is risky, and rarely leads into late game. I would definitely use it against better opponents, or against friends whom I know that they like to expand before knowing what I am up to..
haha its funny. I have played for 3 years only using strategies that ended the game during the mid period. 100+1 different rushes were up me sleeve and gay was my moto. This season I play only safe, 20+ minute games where I avoid attacking, have 40% C- with 300 games, where I could be C+ with 65%. It unbelieveable how much it helped me understand me this game
Yup, I think this build is viable since it worked for you and sometimes it works with my sparing partner. He had tried this move on me for about 3 times and works like a charm when I go 1 gate/robo in andromeda.
Btw, skill level is D/D+.
It's a viable build on rampless maps like Medusa or Longinus. On a map like Python, the defender could just sit on top of his ramp.
Yeah, remember how Stork beat Best because he observed that SKT1 players keep going 1 gate robo on medusa.
Stork did this build successfully vs BeSt during the last OSL, on Medusa
I doubt its very good outside of flat maps, but it seems viable enough here.
Does anyone have a relatively specific build for when you make gateways 2, 3, and 4, and when you cut probes? I've been trying to figure it out on my own but its really sub-optimal and my gateway timings never seem to be when the 'correct' timing is.
we have to keep in mind that 4 gate all-in loses to dark templars. Stork was somewhat lucky that best went robo obs, as the usual SKT1 Protoss does and Stork expected this.
4 gate all in only works if you know your opponent won't go DT's
If I remember correctly there has to be a replay of Best vs foru (and Best was an underdog at that time while foru was the WCG 2005 title holder) at korean preliminaries to wcg 2006 when Best went 4 gate goon and won.
P.S. I also think it is nice to play against people better than you (he is unlikely to go darks).
I've tried 4 gate goon+forge for cannons at nat choke on medusa and its kind of worked but I ended up leaving it at 3 gates because if you go 4 gates you can't afford forge, or you can skip forge and just hope he doesn't do dt but that's a coin-flip.
On January 22 2009 06:58 Cheerio wrote: If I remember correctly there has to be a replay of Best vs foru (and Best was an underdog at that time while foru was the WCG 2005 title holder) at korean preliminaries to wcg 2006 when Best went 4 gate goon and won.
P.S. I also think it is nice to play against people better than you (he is unlikely to go darks).
Anyone have this replay? The 2006 WCG Prelim replays apparently were released but the only links I found to the pack have been dead forever
I've actually done this on ramped maps (read: python). I like to do fake 1 gate robo --->cancel when his scout dies.
Not only will he not expect the ramp break, some of his dragoons, usually 2-3, will be waiting to intercept the reaver drop they think is incoming. This small difference is dragoons defense and the unexpectedness of the frontal assault has really worked well for me.
On January 22 2009 05:49 koreasilver wrote: From what I remember it used to be an extremely effective build that SKT1 Protosses used on Medusa until people started to figure out how to block it.
The open rampless nat of Longinus is pretty similar to Medusa so I think the build should be pretty viable on the map.
On ramped maps though, you probably won't accomplish much besides maybe breaking the nat nexus if they expanded.
Despite having no ramp (although a narrow choke), Guemchi manages to tech reavers and dt vs 4 gate goon and wins with a drop.
edit - o crap it is the same one Lemon posted. I guess we are both brilliant.
Actually it was 3 Gate goon into 4 gate. He didn't add the 4th gate till Guemchi has his reaver out. Usually they have 1 gate and add 3. He had 1 gate and then added 2 quickly and was on 3 gateways for a while and then when the reaver came out he added a 4th gateway.
EPT
free[gm] vs 
