[G] The Ultimate Dark Templars Abuse Guide - Page 2

On January 12 2009 10:44 Ver wrote:
This is pretty good, nice job. Here's a few suggestions to make it more complete:

Proxy gate DT PvT: It is so powerful (although quite risky) that it can beat 2 fact vulture if the Terran researches speed on their first fact instead of mines. From a Terran's POV, it's just plain unfair. See Anytime vs iloveoov on R-Point against 2 fact vult and Horang2 vs Flash on Byzantium 2 against FD. It is quite a bit different from 1 base DT that it deserves its own mention (imo underused build for how good it is).

Another option is the 1 gate DT -> expand -> arbiter build PvT. This is particularly strong on maps without a buildable center like Medusa, although Protoss have been using it fairly often on Sin Chupung-Ryeong lately. See Free vs Mind on that map (game 2 GOM Season 2 ro8) for another example.

I do want to note though that DT is not quite a 'safe' build. If the Terran goes 1 fact CC and blocks the DTs with minimal damage, they are quite a ways ahead especially if it was a drop. See Flash vs Bisu on Andromeda for details on this. Basically if the Terran doesn't make a major mistake it's virtually impossible for the Protoss to pull through.

In PvZ there is the strategy of dropping DTs in their base when you attack. The FPvod of Savior vs Bisu on Reverse Temple illustrates this beautifully (he looks and sees all his main drones dead)

Also, some of your conclusions are also too absolute and may give misleading ideas:

i,e




The Savior game is a smart, one time move, and not something where you blame Bisu for not scouting but instead praise Savior.

The July game just highlights the nature of modern PvZ: Protoss does not have luxury of scouting beyond very early game if the Zerg wants to deny it with speedlings and that it is possible to perfectly time a hydra push to finish the game before any DTs can emerge. Scouting is not always the answer to everything; game sense is needed to push beyond natural barriers sometimes.

On January 12 2009 10:49 meegrean wrote:
Nice article about Dark Templars. They are the coolest unit indeed.

I have a comment to make though. I think you should have added more information about the weaknesses of a DT build. It requires A LOT of gas and if you do something like a fast DT drop, you would need to wait for a short while of gas mining before being able to build more dragoons, upgrade range, get observers, get high templars, research storm, etc. So try not to make it sound easy when you say "oh, the advantage of doing a dt drop is that you could get quick observers after that (lol, where does all the gas come from?)" So, just beware of how much gas DTs would cost you in addition to having to build dragoons.

On January 13 2009 02:45 avilo wrote:
Nice guide, though I sense more freewins for T users on iccup from bad DT protosses with no mechanics and wannabe DT users ;l

Huge part we all know of the DT usage is being able to gain the advantage and then have the mechanics and macro to take your initial advantage to the win.

On January 13 2009 03:49 kawoq wrote:
I wonder if you will ever make a player's games analisys, like those you can find in the Sense of the Star blog... I think you will have what is requiered for that...

On January 13 2009 03:51 Kwark wrote:
If you want I'll write a PvP section for this. I've been meaning to write a dt abuse thing for a while. I got B+ on icc without using reavers in PvP so I'd like to think my dark use is pretty damn sexy. By kind of dark play doesn't appear in high level vods because quite frankly it's inefficient and not as good as the regular PvP openings so most straightup players don't have the first idea how to use darks and just write them off. If you know the tricks, mind games, exploits etc to make the most out of your dark tech then you can hold your own at the highest foreigner levels with it as an opening.

That said, having tried my shit against top koreans on icc I confess there does reach a point where they know exactly what you're doing and just don't play along. Against a foreigner you can be like "dance fool!! I AM THE PUPPETMASTER!!!!" as you lead his first ob away and start sniping his probes with a dark you hid earlier whereas against a pro they go "he's showing me a dark then running away, why would he do that, it's a pointless move that'll just lead me trying to chase down and kill it, why does he want me to move my first ob away" and then I get owned.

On January 13 2009 03:51 Kwark wrote:
If you want I'll write a PvP section for this. I've been meaning to write a dt abuse thing for a while. I got B+ on icc without using reavers in PvP so I'd like to think my dark use is pretty damn sexy. By kind of dark play doesn't appear in high level vods because quite frankly it's inefficient and not as good as the regular PvP openings so most straightup players don't have the first idea how to use darks and just write them off. If you know the tricks, mind games, exploits etc to make the most out of your dark tech then you can hold your own at the highest foreigner levels with it as an opening.

That said, having tried my shit against top koreans on icc I confess there does reach a point where they know exactly what you're doing and just don't play along. Against a foreigner you can be like "dance fool!! I AM THE PUPPETMASTER!!!!" as you lead his first ob away and start sniping his probes with a dark you hid earlier whereas against a pro they go "he's showing me a dark then running away, why would he do that, it's a pointless move that'll just lead me trying to chase down and kill it, why does he want me to move my first ob away" and then I get owned.

On January 13 2009 10:41 Yaqoob wrote:
Amazing guide. I like to rush DT's in PvT and PvP and I've seen most of those VODs but I am going to watch most of them again and read this whole guide so I can learn the different build timings.