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On January 06 2009 02:15 Cloud wrote:
8 damage vs 3 armour? who would ever go melee before carapace?
And who would ever attack you without the additional +2 of ultras.
The point is that you do not receive the carapace upgrades upon a mind control, only that +2 armor upgrade from the ultralisk cavern, which means you will only get 3 armor vs the 8 damage zerglings.
The Mind Control ability is not really useful unless you have caught the zerg doing some early ultra shit cuz they think they have an ez win. It would be a good idea late game if you want to commit to DA's to make sure you upgrade the +50 mana first, then go for the maelstrom while you get 2-4 dark archons up. The problem I believe is that even with that +50 mana you don't get that energy bump like when a HT comes out of the gateway IIRC (I could be wrong on this).
I love using DA's when I know I've won, but they are a huge risk if you lose them you have lost quite a bit of resources, and the dedication to produce them temporarily hinders your gateways from creating HT's, Goons, Zlots. I wouldn't bother even teching the MC unless you want to be a dick and MC a drone and start teching dual races (always funny, but very risky and time consuming). For this you should build only the buildings you need (for zergling mass with your toss units, and MC one of their zerglings to get the quick upgrades instead of having to tech hive. You really don't need to go to 3/3 1/1 is enough since you're doubling them, but this is a very silly strategy that should not be taken seriously :p.
I would love to do some work seeing how effective DA's are in PvZ matches. I may see what I can find working my way up on ICC or if some people wanna test some builds and see where a DA build can fit?
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Norway28517 Posts
ye kwark is correct.. if you steal a 5/3 ultra it becomes a 2/0 ultra.
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Norway28517 Posts
and MC is really great in stalemates, not really viable otherwise.
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On January 06 2009 02:57 Liquid`Drone wrote:
and MC is really great in stalemates, not really viable otherwise.
true as hell... i once went MC / reaver / archon / storm vs zerg. needless to say i got raped, if i replaced maelstrom with MC, i wouldve repelled. ah well, lesson learned.
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Netherlands6142 Posts
I don't see how MC is ever viable since you're as good as guaranteed to lose the DA. 2 Mealstorms would be much more useful + Show Spoiler +imo, even in stalemate you'd be better of getting a scout instead of the MC upgrade since they fly. Take that ultras! duhr.
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Sweden33719 Posts
MC is clearly superior in a stalemate (low eco situation especially), you are not at all guaranteed to lose your DA, MC has good range.
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United States41641 Posts
Darchons are like below workers in the targetting preference, they very rarely take any damage in a big fight. Although they are vulnerable after casting mc they still usually survive provided you win the battle. And if your army is completely routed it doesn't matter that much that you lost your darchons. Also they cost about the same as an ultra and mc is more useful than just instakilling an ultra so even if they do only get one cast it's worth it.
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United States41641 Posts
Also if you mind control a hydra when they have lurk tech you get lurk upgrade free so you don't even need to go beyond hatch tech to mass lurks.
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isn't the HT snipe midgame/late mid game? DA's are only really viable in the late game
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On January 06 2009 03:47 Hazz wrote:
isn't the HT snipe midgame/late mid game? DA's are only really viable in the late game
That's what we're trying to find out, if the DA's can be viable as a mid-game tool.
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Id say feedback is a much better spell, its for free, its spends 50 mana, it has some crazy range and its ridiculously easy to use. No idea why dark archons arent more used against defilers.
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United States41641 Posts
On January 06 2009 03:47 Hazz wrote:
isn't the HT snipe midgame/late mid game? DA's are only really viable in the late game
You can get a maelstrom darchon out instead of 3rd and 4th stormer very easily. And strom is useful vs hydra too.
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haha I thought you meant feedbacking queens to stop broodlings rofl
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Norway28517 Posts
feedback vs defilers is great honestly. its one of those things I think is never going to become common, but which in certain scenarios should be.
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I think the problem with DAs is the same as with queens, they take too much control to use. The use of DAs are also more limited as queens can be used vs almost anyth(ensnare) whereas DAs can only be used to snipe certain units. Having to micro a battle with both HTs and DAs is similiar to using both defilers and queens at the same time which even jaedong has trouble with.
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On January 06 2009 04:07 Cloud wrote:
Id say feedback is a much better spell, its for free, its spends 50 mana, it has some crazy range and its ridiculously easy to use. No idea why dark archons arent more used against defilers.
For the average mid-game PvZ would Feedback benefit you though? In most cases probably not since it's rare to see a defiler or a queen so early.
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But feedback is free and you don't have to do anything to get it other than make the DA. So if you're going for maelstrom you've just got feedback already.
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On January 06 2009 02:56 Liquid`Drone wrote:
ye kwark is correct.. if you steal a 5/3 ultra it becomes a 2/0 ultra.
So MC steals upgrades like move speed or sight range, but not weapons/armor?
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DA does get used to counter Zerg heavy air if I recall. There were at least a few games like that in 06.
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EPT
