. Anyways, the current ZvP trend these days is to pop about a dozen mutalisks and snipe any or all HTs the P might have in his ball, then overwhelm the stormless zealot/dragoon/archon army with mass hydras.

Yet what if there was a DA in the ball (hidden, perhaps), ready to maelstrom any clumped mutalisk group (which could subsequently be stormed to oblivion, saving the protoss from unnecessary templar loss and instantly putting the zerg down about 900-1000 gas)?

Any thoughts? It seems like an effective counter, yet I don't recall seeing such a play before in a pro game. I'm gonna go play some ICCup to test it.

village_idiot

2436 Posts

January 05 2009 11:22 GMT

Stop giving Protoss users any strange ideas.

As a Zerg user that would suck ass. I'd have to use frigging broodling to do any sniping.

NotSlayer_Boxer

United States7 Posts

January 05 2009 11:41 GMT

Hm.
It might be useful.
Other units that the been ignored are coming into play now [Queens anyone?] so I don't see why DA would be a horrible idea.
Maybe after a DT harass on an expansion.

arb

Noobville17922 Posts

January 05 2009 11:57 GMT

Id say the second zerg saw a dark archon coming they'd run maelstrom doesnt have a huge cast range either iirc

village_idiot

2436 Posts

January 05 2009 12:03 GMT

On January 05 2009 20:57 arb wrote:
Id say the second zerg saw a dark archon coming they'd run maelstrom doesnt have a huge cast range either iirc

The range is 10.

MasterReY

Germany2708 Posts

January 05 2009 12:07 GMT

hey OP, please tell in which game the stuff happened which you described in ur spoiler.

i want to see it :D

ExSoldier

378 Posts

January 05 2009 12:07 GMT

imo i always thought maestrom is a great skill against zrg because it plays a role of a vessel making mutas useless... also if zergs dont use muta you can always maestrom hydras or mass lings or w/e. i just wonder why korean gamers dont use it as much. maybe they think its waste of gas to make da and instead use that gas to make another archon and use micro to stop mutas which doesnt seem to be worken real well lol

[X]Ken_D

United States4653 Posts

January 05 2009 12:40 GMT

Maelstorm does indeed stops zerg air cold, but the problem is the timing & cost. You will still have to get storm anyways. That would mean around 3 less high templars by the time a big hydra rush comes. However, maelstorm is viable late game.

IMO if maelstorm was the default spell for DA, it would help protoss a lot in their matchup against zerg.

Chameleon

United States604 Posts

January 05 2009 15:24 GMT

On January 05 2009 20:22 village_idiot wrote:
Stop giving Protoss users any strange ideas.

As a Zerg user that would suck ass. I'd have to use frigging broodling to do any sniping.

But if you switch to that we'll just start using that same DA for feedback

Liquid`Drone

Norway28878 Posts

January 05 2009 15:34 GMT

#10

yes, its a great idea. I used to make DA most of the time against zergs who built spire, its basically an insurance against mutaharassment. usually when zergs see the DA they just run away cuz they know theyre gonna die if they get close..
you really need to like, discover the timing window though. I have also lost games because I got DA too early and didnt have sufficient storm against the hydras that came because he was actually only faking the spire.

but this idea IS worth exploring. not only can it win you some games but you look incredibly good while doing it. :D

one amazingly awesome, but very expensive thing to do against someone you know has mutas out, is doing a storm drop with a DA hidden in the shuttle
basically storm drop, leave your templars outside the shuttle and DA inside shuttle and wait for him to come with mutas to snipe them, then unload DA mael mutas storm mutas - profit.

Cloud

Sexico5880 Posts

January 05 2009 16:44 GMT

#11

Unless scourge come before the mutas and then you would need speedy shuttles

naonao

United States847 Posts

January 05 2009 16:44 GMT

#12

On January 05 2009 20:22 village_idiot wrote:
Stop giving Protoss users any strange ideas.

As a Zerg user that would suck ass. I'd have to use frigging broodling to do any sniping.

Feedback to snipe the queens.

Shado.

United States187 Posts

January 05 2009 16:48 GMT

#13

I think toss needs to get DA's late game anyway for a different reason. It seems that protoss keeps getting their whole army plagued, while Feedback and snipe defiliers ez.

Caller

Poland8075 Posts

January 05 2009 16:52 GMT

#14

you could also use them to mind control the ultralisks that they have in their ultraling push
8 damage lings vs. 6 armor ultras = lol
and sometimes they go carapace first so 2/3 lings vs. 2/4 ultras... lol
da's are so useful, they're like a protoss science vessel with all their crap (feedback = emp, mind control = lol, maelstrom = mass bio lockdown)

sixghost

United States2096 Posts

January 05 2009 16:53 GMT

#15

On January 05 2009 20:57 arb wrote:
Id say the second zerg saw a dark archon coming they'd run maelstrom doesnt have a huge cast range either iirc

So then the zerg virtually wasted 1000/1000 because of 1 DA.

KwarK

United States44257 Posts

January 05 2009 16:56 GMT

#16

I use this whenever I can. The problem is it slows your storm timing a lot to be fast enough to deal with the first muta which can often cause other huge problems. But it's still useful mid game to stop sniping. Definitely viable.

KwarK

United States44257 Posts

January 05 2009 16:58 GMT

#17

On January 06 2009 01:52 Caller wrote:
you could also use them to mind control the ultralisks that they have in their ultraling push
8 damage lings vs. 6 armor ultras = lol
and sometimes they go carapace first so 2/3 lings vs. 2/4 ultras... lol
da's are so useful, they're like a protoss science vessel with all their crap (feedback = emp, mind control = lol, maelstrom = mass bio lockdown)

8 damage lings vs 3 armour ultras I'm afraid. You'd be amazed how fast those fuckers go down. Hydras rape them too. But even so it's kinda useful just to get rid of the ultra, the fact they become yours is a bonus.

Cloud

Sexico5880 Posts

January 05 2009 17:15 GMT

#18

8 damage vs 3 armour? who would ever go melee before carapace?

And who would ever attack you without the additional +2 of ultras.

village_idiot

2436 Posts

January 05 2009 17:34 GMT

#19

On January 06 2009 00:24 chameleonia wrote:

Show nested quote +

But if you switch to that we'll just start using that same DA for feedback

You'd have to be incredibly fast to use feedback on queens. They have so much range you don't see them coming before they've cast the spell already.

Anyway, seriously, Protoss users. Don't even think about putting DAs with your early army, it's the midgame you're aiming at. Your race is at its peak in the midgame, so why not protect your high templars? DA has a range and vision of 10, which means the clumped mutas will have to either run away or die. Then, during the confrontation you can storm the living shit out of the Zerg user.

Now that I think about it, I have no idea why Protoss doesn't use DA. It's just really dumb, kind of like not building a corsair to scout the Zerg.

I mean, see how many times Jaedong has won by sniping the Templars with his mutas. Or any other Zerg for that matter.

KwarK

United States44257 Posts

January 05 2009 17:54 GMT

#20

On January 06 2009 02:15 Cloud wrote:
8 damage vs 3 armour? who would ever go melee before carapace?

And who would ever attack you without the additional +2 of ultras.

A protoss who doesn't have carapace armour? Only the tech upgrades carry across. Not the stat ones. You get the speed if researched (and any ultras mced before zerg had speed also get speed when you mc a speed ultra), you get the armour upgrade research but to get the full 6 armour you need to mind control a drone and make evos etc.