EPTRELEVANT
http://www.gomtv.net/classics2/vod/452
(savior vs free)
ZvP Mass Dragoon Mid Game - Page 2
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
RELEVANT http://www.gomtv.net/classics2/vod/452 (savior vs free) | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On November 15 2008 09:37 PzkfW wrote: I play zerg. I consider ZvP to be my best MU, except for when this happens. He masses dragoons middle game, breaks the containment. I don't know how to counter this. I know that late game I must use defilers for dark swarm to make all of their attacks useless. I can handle mass dragoons late game, but I can't handle them mid game. Should I rush to defilers quicker? I seriously have lost to this like every time. Do I sacrifice overlords to see his dragoons coming? But how do I know when to do it, since I'll be losing a ton of overlords if I want this to happen? And how do I counter the dragoons? Mass ling/hydra ? Thanks for replies. I'm like D/D- so I'm not that good at all, but vs mass goons midgame, usually if you do a lurker contain, I would suicide like 6 lings to his nat and see what he has. if he has mass goons, I'll tech switch to mutaling. When he moves out, flank his ass with Mutaling and well... the goons melt. At least for me they usually do. | ||
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PH
United States6173 Posts
On November 17 2008 18:59 opsayo wrote: If you're losing to mass anything, you're simply being outmacro'd. Pure hydra ling is enough to overtake the majority of tosses, especially since he has to break out of a contain. Work on that macro. Toss midgame is generally stronger than zerg in any case. It's not a simple matter of being out-macro'd...it happens a lot. It's toss's goal to slow down your economy and to disrupt your third for as long as possible while keeping you from taking your fourth for as long as possible. It's gonna happen...a lot. On November 17 2008 23:54 Shikyo wrote: I'm like D/D- so I'm not that good at all, but vs mass goons midgame, usually if you do a lurker contain, I would suicide like 6 lings to his nat and see what he has. if he has mass goons, I'll tech switch to mutaling. When he moves out, flank his ass with Mutaling and well... the goons melt. At least for me they usually do. The problem is muta-ling is pretty finnicky...mutas are very expensive and are actually not that difficult to counter. Storms kill them in one hit, archons melt them just as fast, and sairs are your worst enemy. Hydras are a bit more all-around, and lings are just dirt cheap. Muta-ling is definitely effective as a way to destroy those goons though, yes. I just wouldn't get a new set of mutas just to counter the toss as they're moving out...:X | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
If you're so good you should figure it out on your own watching reps. Maybe if you play the same strat vs same strat every game you will figure it out. Its not that hard. Mass goons is easy to kill as long as they dont have Storm/Archon. Mass hydra/ling should be fine as long as you can dodge storms. PS- your username looks really noob as well. | ||
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FieryBalrog
United States1381 Posts
Toss midgame is generally stronger than zerg in any case. It's not a simple matter of being out-macro'd...it happens a lot. It's toss's goal to slow down your economy and to disrupt your third for as long as possible while keeping you from taking your fourth for as long as possible. It's gonna happen...a lot. There's no disruption in this game. P just sits in his base and macros and then rolls out. It really is his macro and BO choices, it sucks and its the reason he lost. Its true that P midgame army is generally stronger in the field than that of a 3 hatch high econ zerg style, but that wasn't the problem here. | ||
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Metaspace
Austria670 Posts
Good work TL! | ||
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inReacH
Sweden1612 Posts
On November 15 2008 10:23 PzkfW wrote: Hell, gg.net is supposed to be TL's Trash not the opposite I STRONGLY disagree. I got replies to this in less than 30 minutes, and they actually told me what I did wrong. I post on gg.net and get replies 6+ hours later, and the replies totally suck (or ask me to do ridiculous amounts of micro for no reason). Is there a secret "actually helps" board on gg.net? Because they seriously suck. If you're going for a lurker contain I'd expect at least 10 or so... Are you serious? I've been told to make like three or so up to this point. Thanks for the other things. I thought there was some kind of special thing I had to do, but next time I see this I will have msas ling/lurk/muta and will get the contain better. He was saying you are trash. | ||
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Ronald_McD
Canada807 Posts
Well Most Protoss players I've played don't mass goons PvZ But my friend did once It was effective, only because it caught me off guard I was preparing for a big corsair harass because that's what I get like 50% of the time ZvP Ideally you want to use ultraling, maybe defilers, and lotsa upgrades Plague and swarm would work wonders on a big bunch of dragoons Dragoons aren't very good against fully upped zerglings. If you tech lings at all like you probably should be, you can use speedlings to contain pretty good too with some good micro. I dunno. I didn't watch replay, but these are just some ideas I came up with when you described what happened. | ||
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bubbabro
United States41 Posts
* you wouldn't have known if he had so, im just saying | ||
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DarkSaieden
South Africa254 Posts
Also there's a thread about drone count and how having a certain amount drones/gas per hatch (and no more) maximizes your army as fast as possible. Basic idea (eg): If you doing 3 hatch ling, 9 drones on minerals will be enough to constantly produce lings out those hatches. obviously you want (and should have) more than that to tech and expand as well. | ||
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