EPT[G] Self-Improvement - Page 2
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Seraphim
United States4467 Posts
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
On February 05 2008 06:50 gwho wrote: whats boxer's apm? like 400? It's a bit irrelevant to the thread topic, but I'm pretty sure Boxer is one of the lower APM pros. | ||
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xBTx
Canada542 Posts
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Seraphim
United States4467 Posts
 Had to say it again  This is definitely a piece of work. Great job on it! | ||
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Radical
United States481 Posts
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
On February 05 2008 08:32 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: It's a bit irrelevant to the thread topic, but I'm pretty sure Boxer is one of the lower APM pros. EDIT: There is a blog on this now. | ||
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alphafuzard
United States1610 Posts
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skyglow1
New Zealand3962 Posts
Mechanics must come after game sense, or you will be controlling your units very quickly and accurately, but giving them the wrong commands. For example, many people can control a few speed Zerglings very well against a Marine and SCVs, but it takes someone with a good understanding of the game to realize when they should charge the Marine, when they should target SCVs and when they should retreat and target buildings. I prefer to focus on mechanics first and get them top notch before attempting to start thinking about the strategical aspect of the game. My reasoning is that in every game you play with poor macro and poor micro etc, you are drilling in bad habits which I found were REALLY hard to change once I realised what I was doing wrong. On the other hand, it isn't as destructive when you're not fully engaged strategically in every game (because you're concentrating on getting your mechanics better). I've found personally that after I built a fairly solid base of mechanics into my game play, it wasn't very difficult to tell myself "now I really need to start thinking about the game and what's going in and looking it at in a deeper level" because the mechanics aspect had become second nature, leaving me to concentrate on strategy easily while still maintaining my decent level of mechanics. When I tried to reverse my bad habits in respect to mechanics, I found it so difficult to force myself to look at the minimap for instance, because after playing so many games without paying that much attention to the minimap I was so used to not really looking at it. I must admit this is also partly due to my favourtism towards mechanics (anti MBS ftw) but it really has worked for me. | ||
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ZerG~LegenD
Sweden1179 Posts
On February 05 2008 14:08 skyglow1 wrote: Agree with everything except this: I prefer to focus on mechanics first and get them top notch before attempting to start thinking about the strategical aspect of the game. My reasoning is that in every game you play with poor macro and poor micro etc, you are drilling in bad habits which I found were REALLY hard to change once I realised what I was doing wrong. On the other hand, it isn't as destructive when you're not fully engaged strategically in every game (because you're concentrating on getting your mechanics better). I've found personally that after I built a fairly solid base of mechanics into my game play, it wasn't very difficult to tell myself "now I really need to start thinking about the game and what's going in and looking it at in a deeper level" because the mechanics aspect had become second nature, leaving me to concentrate on strategy easily while still maintaining my decent level of mechanics. When I tried to reverse my bad habits in respect to mechanics, I found it so difficult to force myself to look at the minimap for instance, because after playing so many games without paying that much attention to the minimap I was so used to not really looking at it. I must admit this is also partly due to my favourtism towards mechanics (anti MBS ftw) but it really has worked for me. I've also argued that point a few times on gg.net. Once your mechanics are good enough you can start learning the game by trial and error, but if your mechanics are sloppy that just won't work - as you're just as likely to lost due to inferior multitask. I know a guy who've played the game for alittle less than half a year now, and he's already one of the best tvz players in Sweden. I like to think that it's becouse he's got really great multitasking. Had he focused on learning the exact timing for barracks and different approaches to midgame and stuff like that instead I have no doubt he'd still be struggeling in pubbie games. | ||
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Shado.
United States187 Posts
It's one thing to have a high APM but that doesn't mean you're always playing efficiently and quickly. How do pros approach their mechanics and what is the rational for the way they do things? | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8202 Posts
For what I have learnt, to play well, you have to play fast. And to play fast, you have to react almost instinctivly to what is happening to you. What BO you are using, what to do against muta harass, where to drop, which expension to attack, 99% of the game shouldn't even be thought, and done automatically. It seems that pro gamer says taht they are playing with their intuition rather than hardcore thinking. A good player don't think, he reacts, and he is able to react quickly because he has been thinking before. While playing, it's a bit too late to think. My 2 cents... | ||
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Avius
Iraq1796 Posts
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grobo
Japan6199 Posts
The two problems i know that i have are the following: 1) I have a habit of trying to do everything as fast as possible even though i don't want to and i KNOW that it's keeping me from playing properly, but it's damn near impossible to "slow" down now that i have been playing like this for so long. I get so caught up in microing my units that i completely forget about my base which results in me having zero units once the others die. 2) I'm braindead and can not for the life of me learn simple build orders, I've been watching replays and VODs since forever but trying to memorize a build seems useless for me, the second i start playing my mind goes blank and i automatically build some other shit that has NOTHING to do with the build order i was supposed to do. | ||
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amorpheus
Bulgaria2144 Posts
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Chill
Calgary26004 Posts
On February 05 2008 14:08 skyglow1 wrote: Agree with everything except this: I prefer to focus on mechanics first and get them top notch before attempting to start thinking about the strategical aspect of the game. My reasoning is that in every game you play with poor macro and poor micro etc, you are drilling in bad habits which I found were REALLY hard to change once I realised what I was doing wrong. On the other hand, it isn't as destructive when you're not fully engaged strategically in every game (because you're concentrating on getting your mechanics better). I've found personally that after I built a fairly solid base of mechanics into my game play, it wasn't very difficult to tell myself "now I really need to start thinking about the game and what's going in and looking it at in a deeper level" because the mechanics aspect had become second nature, leaving me to concentrate on strategy easily while still maintaining my decent level of mechanics. When I tried to reverse my bad habits in respect to mechanics, I found it so difficult to force myself to look at the minimap for instance, because after playing so many games without paying that much attention to the minimap I was so used to not really looking at it. I must admit this is also partly due to my favourtism towards mechanics (anti MBS ftw) but it really has worked for me. Hmm interesting point. I think I agree with you. My argument was written in the context of winning, but you will learn quicker with your method. I'll have to address this. Thanks. | ||
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Lemonwalrus
United States5465 Posts
On February 05 2008 18:20 Shado. wrote: I've seen pro use the arrow key as well to move the screen around... do pro's still do this? As far as I know the only pro that does this is Boxer. Although boxer is a great player, I think it is safe to say that, unless you feel really comfortable with it, there is really no reason to try to teach yourself this style of micro, as plenty of players have become great without it. As far as the rest of your post, I would assume it is difficult to choose an absolute truth for all progamers, or even just the top 10% or whatever, but imho, hotkeys are a good habit to get into. Having the ability to do such things as make units in your base while overseeing/microing a battle half the map away or vice verse becomes invaluable, especially as your APM and such things increase. | ||
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4AiUR
3 Posts
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Lemonwalrus
United States5465 Posts
On February 06 2008 05:36 4AiUR wrote: many pros do that man, you can control 100% your units while u move the screen, for a lot of them is a must. I just did a little searching, and the general TL consensus over several threads is that boxer is the only one that does this, and it is because he sets his mouse scroll speed to the lowest setting. | ||
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We Are Here
Australia1810 Posts
On February 05 2008 14:08 skyglow1 wrote: yea i remember reading in an interview with the coach of pos(i think) why he choose july, he said because he was fast -meaning that he had good mechanics- and that although he wasnt a very good strategical player that he could learn that(strategy etc.) afterwards. hope that made sense Agree with everything except this: I prefer to focus on mechanics first and get them top notch before attempting to start thinking about the strategical aspect of the game. My reasoning is that in every game you play with poor macro and poor micro etc, you are drilling in bad habits which I found were REALLY hard to change once I realised what I was doing wrong. On the other hand, it isn't as destructive when you're not fully engaged strategically in every game (because you're concentrating on getting your mechanics better). I've found personally that after I built a fairly solid base of mechanics into my game play, it wasn't very difficult to tell myself "now I really need to start thinking about the game and what's going in and looking it at in a deeper level" because the mechanics aspect had become second nature, leaving me to concentrate on strategy easily while still maintaining my decent level of mechanics. When I tried to reverse my bad habits in respect to mechanics, I found it so difficult to force myself to look at the minimap for instance, because after playing so many games without paying that much attention to the minimap I was so used to not really looking at it. I must admit this is also partly due to my favourtism towards mechanics (anti MBS ftw) but it really has worked for me. | ||
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Shado.
United States187 Posts
I used to just hotkey my hatches from 1-7 and important units like muta/lurker/scourges/defiliers 8-0. Now I'm experimenting with units 1-3, first 3 hatches 4-6, and then each additional main base, 7-9, with scourges usually at 0. I also set my F2-4 at the other person's base so I can move between battles and bases easier... Also... does anyone use the spacebar? or does anyone use waypoints (using shift) for any reason other than scouting? and is it just me or does it seem impossible to use all your larve the second it comes out while microing a battle? | ||
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