Bump! I just have a few questions which would probably be more appropriate in this thread than a new one considering they're about improvement and this is a definitive guide for well.. that.

Would anyone recommend the same style of learning the deep strategy first, when learning Terran? I've seen a lot of people (skyglow in this thread) say people should focus on mechanics first, which I'd imagine would only benefit Terrans.

And a more random question but, is using the minimap regularly considered a 'mechanic'? Is it advantageous when improving your mechanics to try and play through the minimap, using pings along with spacebar to dictate what you do next?

ghermination

United States2851 Posts

April 15 2009 16:05 GMT

#82

This will help quite a bit. Thanks for posting this.

Noah

Norway164 Posts

April 15 2009 16:30 GMT

#83

Great guide!

I'm a newbie terran myself, so the mechanics vs strategy first discussion is very relevant to me.

I've already improved from 50 to 90-100apm in TvP, and I can credit this improvement to my efforts in learning a certain BO. As soon as I knew in the back of the head what I had to do next my mechanics just naturally stepped up to it, suddenly my apm was way up.

If I play when I'm tired/not focused I can lose track of my BO since I'm still very new to it, and when I lose my track like this my apm goes down to 70ish again. You lose out on your speed when you're thinking "what the fuck do I do now????!??!!" instead of calmly knowing what to do next.

The biggest problem to me in improving in this game now is that I feel uncomfortable in the ICCUP ladder as it is today. I only host games myself with names like "1v1 Python NEWBS ONLY" or "1v1 d-" and still I lose 9/10 games to players with 150-200 apm. I've completely stopped playing players that are over 1100 rating in order to prevent these high apm players to roll over me again and again. It gets really boring when you get to the same stage in your BO before you die to superior play each time. Basically this has shattered my confidence and this is something that is holding me back.

One day those assholes are going to get what they deserve though, I am going to get better at this game!

JFKWT

Singapore1442 Posts

April 15 2009 17:54 GMT

#84

Hi this suggestion has been posted re: Terran newbies especially, namely - learn 1 BO per matchup and practice the basic BO until your timings are perfect/near-perfect.

E.g.:
TvZ 9 min pre-hivetech hanbang
TvP 5/6 fact push
TvT is abit more random, perhaps 1fact 1port or 1fact expo.

Its true that learning a BO even against a com can increase your APM (i got mine from 100 to 150apm or so after a few hours of doing that) and try to constantly macro+add macro buildings after every short while controlling your units.

To learn mechanics (as Leta put it) and control "concentrate very hard" from the 1st scouting scv onwards. In a real game i've done this with my 1st vult killing workers, the 1st marine killing the enemy scout/ovie etc. and then move on to targetting specific things e.g. irradiating defilers (which i'm working on) and doing specific combos such as flanking or Scan->EMP or Scan->Irradiate.

Perhaps after that it could be good to learn how to set traps and surrounds and sieges, and know when and when not to attack. Just today i had a mass (20+) of MnM outside my friends' base and i saw 2 lurkers burrowed in his nat and i went "oh hey lets spread and attack" which led to disaster on my end =.= so yea do the case by case analysis (read: TRIAL AND ERROR) once your basic mechanics are up. note that i'm probably way below the level to execute any of this properly...

one thing about the minimap i noticed is that you have to keep reminding yourself to glance at it. usually when i manually control small groups of units e.g. to kill a lightly defended expo i forget to micro them and they end up dying as all unmicro-ed terran units do. spacebar is dicey as sometimes the AI randomly sets spacebar points and it gets very annoying...

Oh and another thing is to figure out how the AI works. one of the most annoying things is to give your units an order only to have them sit there dumbly and do nothing in an opponents' base, or having them attack a random building instead of the key tech building or even tower etc. EAPM must be effective if the purest sense i.e. give you an effective advantage by killing the correct thing at the correct time etc.

s.a.y

Croatia3840 Posts

April 15 2009 22:23 GMT

#85

i get constant Destination ZvT rape because some dood named By.Stylish told them all of the buids.

game 1 : i get raped vulture drop.
game 2: raped vulture harras
game 3: 4 rax sunken brake
game 4: proxy rax into 2 stargate
...

Hundredth

United Kingdom142 Posts

April 15 2009 23:07 GMT

#86

proxy rax into 2 stargate? impressive

Dgtl

Canada889 Posts

April 15 2009 23:21 GMT

#87

Must've been team melee :O

Rainbow

United States249 Posts

April 16 2009 00:01 GMT

#88

Very nice guide, Chill. It made me actually use the replay button.

+ Show Spoiler +

He meant starport lol

Swarmy

Canada70 Posts

April 16 2009 00:03 GMT

#89

You need to be one with the zergling.

Grobyc

Canada18410 Posts

April 16 2009 00:12 GMT

#90

On April 16 2009 09:03 Swarmy wrote:
You need to be one with the overmind.

Mykill

Canada3402 Posts

April 16 2009 00:16 GMT

#91

Looks like a great guide....
i just started today and got my ass kicked twice

i just lose any substance in a "build" i end up improvising and sucking due to lack of scouting info

omninmo

2349 Posts

April 16 2009 06:00 GMT

#92

just re-read this.. its really good. thanks chill

Noah

Norway164 Posts

April 16 2009 06:12 GMT

#93

On April 16 2009 09:16 Mykill wrote:
Looks like a great guide....
i just started today and got my ass kicked twice

i just lose any substance in a "build" i end up improvising and sucking due to lack of scouting info

I'm there as well, but I'm making improvements practicing builds quite fast. You should try to write down a specific pre-made good build and then follow it to the letter. If this is too hard on ICCUP do it against the computer (use cheats if you have to, the only thing relevant is that you learn how to do the BO you have on paper).

MrChance

Germany51 Posts

April 16 2009 16:45 GMT

#94

I agree that this is a great guide and thank Chill a lot for posting it.
It has one fundamental error in it though that hasn't been pointed out until now:
The best way to actually get better at SC is watch Chills FPStream!
Get it back up, man!
Or at least put the old ones in the loop...

PriitM

Algeria181 Posts

April 16 2009 20:29 GMT

#95

--- Nuked ---

MuR)Ernu

Finland768 Posts

April 17 2009 00:18 GMT

#96

i disagree with the mechanical section a bit.

I mean, mechanics isn't a mindset. Learning the mechanics might be.

^ _ ^
great read otherwise

latent

United States428 Posts

April 17 2009 01:43 GMT

#97

Before you can improve, you must first learn to let the Force guide you. Let it guiiiide you...

Also good post. I liked it a lot.

Espers

United Kingdom606 Posts

September 30 2009 19:58 GMT

#98

Hey, bump, questions! Would've been nice if this was in the recommended threads.. lucky it got linked to.

Is the order that's in this obselete? The liquipedia article on the same subject mentions having strong mechanics is essential to learning, which obviously makes sense.

I'm terrible for not being able to keep a conscious idea of things like looking at the minimap, are there any tips for remembering this things in an intense ZvT? :p

Chill

Calgary26003 Posts

September 30 2009 20:05 GMT

#99

It's up for debate. I've since changed to the mechanics-first approach, because you can win games with mechanics alone, whereas that is much, much more difficult with strategy alone. I think it's also a nicer position to be in where you lose and wonder why, than losing and knowing what you should have done but simply weren't able to do it.

Some people prefer the other way.