I asked Chill if I was allowed to Bump this thread, and he said I could so please don't hate. My name is Josh, I'm who he was referring to in his post. I just wanted to explain it for some people who might be at the same fault I am, for others it's probably common knowledge. When I use to play Chill, I use to rely on attacks that focused around the early game, because I knew late game was a very bad time for me, like he said, I'd always go into late game way behind and little chance of wining. I knew timing played a factor, but, I think my mindset was "Oh, timing, yeah, I think strategy is more important". Basically, I thought I could overlook it and just counter what he did and still be effective.

My confusion was this: Timing does not directly referr to "Time". It's not a specific "Time" in which you need to attack. For example, I thought a "Timing" push related to massing your units and pushing at a certin, literal time in the game (ex: 12:00 minutes into the game). However, that was not the case. It's more or less when your opponent is at their weakest and your at your strongest, or aim to be for this window. So the concept of Timing is situational, I don't believe it's something you can learn directly from replays. I mean, you can study them and say "Ok, as soon as he gets his 3rd I'll attack" and you could be effective, but you wouldn't understand the concept and you would be fucked for scenarios that may present themselves in your game that the "replays" failed to provide.

So, as I told Chill. I was staring at the one line "Josh has no timing" and now I'm thinking to myself "Josh has SOME timing".

As for the last post, I believe you really improve your understanding of it, which I don't think you even have to game to do. There are other factors, like scouting, etc, which will tell you how/when to take advantage of this window, but a good understanding of what it is, I believe, is more important than mass gaming and not knowing what it is. In my experience, I've seen a lot of players who have got better explain that it's really just your mindset and that's totally true. StarCraft requires a lot of understanding, and opening your mind to this will help you improve greatly.

HiOT

Sweden1000 Posts

December 14 2008 08:07 GMT

#48

Chill you just revolutionized my in game thinking -.- thanks

Seraphim

United States4467 Posts

December 14 2008 08:39 GMT

#49

Nice addition Dante

Well said!

BanZu

United States3329 Posts

December 14 2008 08:44 GMT

#50

Timing?

EZPZ

TopGear

United Kingdom796 Posts

December 14 2008 13:51 GMT

#51

Great guide.

Kwark taught me a lot on PvZ timing, some things I didn't even think of but are so obvious and simple and have huge effect on my game.

oMega3

South Africa3 Posts

December 15 2008 09:57 GMT

#52

Good guide,many new players have zero concept of this.
They produce the right units and have good control but wonder why they still loose. Lack of Timing is why they loose.

DeathByMonkeys

United States742 Posts

December 15 2008 15:08 GMT

#53

Excellent post, worth the bump too... I really need to work on this and game sense.

HooHa!

United States688 Posts

December 15 2008 17:01 GMT

#54

On December 14 2008 11:43 GiTM.Dante wrote:
As for the last post, I believe you really improve your understanding of it, which I don't think you even have to game to do. There are other factors, like scouting, etc, which will tell you how/when to take advantage of this window, but a good understanding of what it is, I believe, is more important than mass gaming and not knowing what it is. In my experience, I've seen a lot of players who have got better explain that it's really just your mindset and that's totally true. StarCraft requires a lot of understanding, and opening your mind to this will help you improve greatly.

I completely agree with this.

I just have been watching VODS for the past few months and haven't been gaming nearly much at all. I never was any good. I had decent micro until my mouse crapped out.
Recently played a few games and tried strategies that were somewhat risky but would help me out in the later game. It was a 2v2, my partners would always go " FE!?!? you'll kill us all!" Because of the advantage I had gained early on, I could pump much more units with better upgrades, and scare the other players out of the game. Of course this was low level play, but it can still hold true. The wins seem a little more satisfying, and my confidence is better because of it.

BlasiuS

United States2405 Posts

December 15 2008 17:28 GMT

#55

I think a guide similar to this should also be made for game sense, since it is another skill that is hard to define, and yet still very important to have.

R3condite

Korea (South)1541 Posts

December 15 2008 18:47 GMT

#56

good bump... can u put this in recommended thread list?

or.. is it already there? 0.o

GHOSTCLAW

United States17042 Posts

December 15 2008 18:55 GMT

#57

On December 16 2008 02:28 BlasiuS wrote:
I think a guide similar to this should also be made for game sense, since it is another skill that is hard to define, and yet still very important to have.

game sense goes hand in hand with scouting, which imo you need a ton of mechanics for. if you watch the reps after you lose, and understand what you did wrong, your gamesense will be better.

BlasiuS

United States2405 Posts

December 15 2008 19:47 GMT

#58

On December 16 2008 03:55 GHOSTCLAW wrote:

Show nested quote +

game sense goes hand in hand with scouting, which imo you need a ton of mechanics for. if you watch the reps after you lose, and understand what you did wrong, your gamesense will be better.

This is precisely why I think someone should make a guide, since there is obviously more to it than a vague answer such as "if you watch the reps after you lose, and understand what you did wrong, your gamesense will be better."

Chill

Calgary25987 Posts

December 15 2008 21:26 GMT

#59

Gamesense is a synonym for intuition. You can't teach intuition.

Fzero

United States1503 Posts

December 15 2008 22:03 GMT

#60

I have a bit of a vague question that I don't feel merits a new thread:

I'm a zerg player and I'm practicing "timing" on some of the more all-in rush oriented builds like 9 pool speedlings, 2 hatch 1 base lurker, 2 hatch muta. I was using a stopwatch to practice the zerg build, and then doing the same thing with terran or protoss in an attempt to see what sort of tech they could possibly have to stop it.

I got 4 lurkers out in the 2 hatch build at 5:30~ or so and 6 mutas around 7~

I managed to get terran to have about a control group of marines from 2 rax at about 45~ supply with stim half way done on the lurker build and I had mnm with stim and range and turrets up by 7 mins as well.

For toss I managed to get obs out with time to spare from 1 base, and I had the observatory building at the time lurkers would be arriving when I FE'd (built a stargate and a corsair also). For muta defense I had plenty of time to get anything I wanted whether it was 5~ sairs or 3 cannons at both bases or an archon or whatever.

I had never actually tried to time the techs out like this. I'm sure this is fairly obvious to any of you good players, but I'm just C-/D+ and I was wondering exactly how the theory behind these "timing" attacks is supposed to work. Is it a rock/paper/scissors sort of game? I manage to get these attacks to work on iccup when I can prevent scouting, but I never got the precise timing of how easily these attacks can be stopped if you know they are coming. I suppose I'm wondering if I'm just slow and these should work more often or if at higher levels these all-in type maneuvers just never work anymore.

I never really see Korean players lose to a specific timing build that often unless the attacker hides the buildings like a proxy or they make a huge mistake with micro. Is it worth the time to learn how to execute these offensive builds, or should I acknowledge that safer play should be the route 99% of the time and just look for openings in their defenses to exploit?