• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:39
CEST 15:39
KST 22:39
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star5Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists14[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers11Maestros of the Game 2 announced52026 GSL Tour plans announced14Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid22
StarCraft 2
General
Maestros of the Game 2 announced 2026 GSL Tour plans announced Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool MaNa leaves Team Liquid Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding 2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 522 Flip My Base The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss Mutation # 520 Moving Fees
Brood War
General
ASL21 Strategy, Pimpest Plays Discussions Data needed BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro16 Group C Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro16 Group A
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Reappraising The Situation T…
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2694 users

! [G] Timing

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 Next All
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25998 Posts
January 25 2008 23:34 GMT
#1
This isn't so much a guide as it is an explanation with the hopes of opening a few shut eyes.

I was playing my friend Josh Zerg versus Terran. Josh is kind of a strange player in that he rarely gets into the mid game, and if he does he’ll be insurmountably behind. I always answered his vague questions about what to do better until a few days ago when I wondered where his problem was that he always emerged out of the early game behind. The early game requires a lot of minerals going towards infrastructure, so it’s hard to have bad early game macro, so that wasn’t it. He would kill Lurkers fairly easily with Marines and Medics, so his early game micro was fine. He would build Turrets and Bunkers in the right places. His build orders were solid. He would often play risky and end up hard countering my build with his, but I still would end up ahead. It was only two days ago that I realized (along with Soyu) what his problem was.

Josh has no timing.

      What is timing?
There are many types of timing and some are barely related to others. They are, however, joined by one fact: Timing is maximizing your advantage at a certain relative game time. Vague as it sounds, that’s the best definition I can come up that covers all forms of timing. Timing is walking as close to the cliff as possible at all times without falling over. The closer to the edge you are now, the further your advantage should be pressed in the future. Let’s look at the classic example of timing, static defence:

      Static defence timing
Imagine all things equal, you know your opponent is going Mutalisks. Be it map hack, SCV scout or good scan, you see the Spire and 3 Hatcheries. Because you did an FE build, you are going to need Turrets. Ignoring Turret placement and Mutalisks numbers and micro for the time being, let’s pretend Mutalisks’ and Turrets’ power stacks linearly. Assume each Turret kills 3 Mutalisks.

Obviously we can see we need 3 Turrets at each base. When should we build them? We want all there Turrets to finish the second the Mutalisks move into range to attack, because by putting off building those Turrets until then, we have saved their cost until the last possible moment. This is the most basic form of timing and should be easy for all to see.

Now, let’s advance this analysis one step further. What can we do to delay Turret production further? It may not seem like anything, because we are already building Turrets at the last possible second, and further and the Turrets will be taking damage while building and we will lose all the Turrets. If, however, the base layout is such that we can assume our reasonable opponent will first attack one of our bases rather than the other, we can delay Turret production slightly at the second base.

I AM NOT SUGGESTING YOU DO THIS IN A REAL GAME. This is simply an example.

So by waiting as long as possible to build static defence, we get more SCVs and more infrastructure built before we “waste” money on defence. This should be easily seen by all up to now.

      Static defence buildup
Let’s expand this further yet again. In the first example, we knew when the Mutalisks were coming. Timing with perfect information is nothing to brag about – you can see how long it will take the enemy to come attack you and can prepare accordingly. Timing with limited or no information is a skill to desire.

With no initial scouting, should a Zerg build 5 Sunken Colonies to stop a Sparks attack, or 2 Sunken Colonies to stop a 1 Barracks Academy rush? It’s a loaded question since the situation is unrealistic; however, with no information you must time your defence to stop both attacks, 2 Sunken Colonies at the first timing, adding more every time an attack is likely.

This is similar to an FE Protoss stopping a 3 Hatch Hydralisk FE-break attack. The first example would have Protoss build no Cannons until he saw Hydralisks coming, and then warp in just enough to live the attack. This is obviously unreasonable, as it leaves Protoss vulnerable to any attack that would come before the Hydralisk push time. This is why you must understand the concept of buildup, to improve your defences appropriately at each likely attack time.

      Attack timing
The concept of static defence timing is a fairly simple one to comprehend. We can now move further forward into attack timing. Typically when you hear a player branded with “great timing”, it is his attack timing that is getting praised.

Let’s look at a “standard” Zerg versus Terran match. Terran does FE off 1 or 2 Barracks with one to six Marines. Zerg does 12 Hatch 11 Pool 13 Hatch making all Drones and heading towards Lair. Terran applies pressure until Mutalisks are out when he returns home to defend. Zerg continues to expand, getting Lurkers out and heading straight for Hive and Defilers. Terran begins to move out with Tanks, Marines, Medics and Vessels, fighting Lurkers, Zerglings and Defilers until someone get pushed back, loses and expansion and the game.

Now, let’s identify when each player is weak, starting with Zerg. Once Medics and Stimpacks are researched, Zerglings can no longer deal with the Terran army. Similarly, once the Muta harass is over, in the time before Zerg can defend his expansions with Lurkers, he is weak. He is weak once again during the transition when he is waiting for Defilers. These are all key times for the Terran to attack. Watch for it in games of strong players, I guarantee Terran will move out at exactly all three of those times, because they are so crucial times when Zerg is weak.

We can also see when Terran is weak. Once Mutalisks are out, Zerg has free reign of the map and Terran is weak. Similarly, once Lurkers are out Terran often doesn’t have Tanks or Vessels to deal with them, so they are again weak. Terran is weak again when Defilers initially come out, because he shouldn’t have a great deal of tech to be able to easily fight them at that point. Unlike Terran, these are not necessarily points when Zerg should attack. Terran’s “weakness” may come from loss of map control, and Zerg should use that to expand. In other cases, such as Defilers, it is an opportune time to attack.

You should always be using timing to your advantage. If you FE as Terran, you can assume Protoss wil double Nexus in response. If you time your army to attack at the critical moment when he has paid for his expansion but not gotten any benefit from it, you may be able to break it.

This is the critical idea to timing attacks – you attack someone when they have spent resources but have not yet gotten any benefit from it. If you mistype your attack too soon they will not have spent the resources and will be able to crush you, but if you wait too long they will have the added benefit of whatever they spend resources on (new expansion – more minerals and hence more units, or new tech – able to counter your attack because you haven’t teched because you were doing a timing attack). Players relying on timing attacks walk a thin line between attacking too early or too late, but if timed right timing attacks are the most devastating attacks in the game.

      Production timing
Production timing is the balancing act of infrastructure, tech, economy, and army size. The theory of it is far too complicated to go into extensive theoretical detail, so instead we will rely on vague theories and examples.

Production timing is like static defence timing but with more options and is heavily tied to attack timing. If you are planning on attacking in 3 minutes, should you cut workers now and build only units, or cut them in 2 minutes and build units? Which gives you the largest possible army 3 minutes from now? If you know when you are going to be doing a timing attack, production timing makes that army as strong as possible. An example of this is FireBatHero versus Savior on Katrina. FBH cuts units and Turrets in order to get seven Barracks producing units by the time Mutalisks are out. The result is a midgame timing attack before Lurkers that Savior’s Mutalisks cannot hold back. This is a true timing attack, but the main thing to take awhile from this game is the timing of production. FireBatHero maximizes his economy by making as few units as possible, and then transitions into maximizing his army by making few workers and static defence as he approaches the time to attack.

      Counter-production timing
StarCraft often works in a Rock-Paper-Scissors cyclical nature. If you look at what I’ve said earlier, Zerg is weak after the Mutalisk harass is defended and they don’t have Lurkers out. Why? Because they’ve spent time and resources (on buildings, research and morphing Lurkers) and they haven’t got any benefit from this. So a Terran timing attack at this point would be strong.

But as a Zerg player, you know you’re weak to this timing attack. So what if you time your army to be maximized when his timing attack comes? This is the essence of counter-timing. As difficult as timing is to master, counter-timing is that much more difficult.

Let’s examine the possibilities in the Zerg versus Terran scenario. If all goes according to plan, Terran moves out with his timing attack, but Zerg hasn’t even made a Hydralisk Den. He has instead decided to focus on pure MutaLing. Terran moves out, expecting to find a dwindling Zerg economy stalling for time while Lurkers are morphing, and instead finds a massive MutaLing army that crushes him.

Let’s reply the scenario with a smarter Terran. Terran first notices that Zerg is still making Mutalisks through this early midgame. After scouting, he realizes there is no Hydralisk Den, so Zerg much have shifted his production for a counter-timing attack. As a result, Terran shifts his timing. He will wait until Zerg places an expansion or Hydralisk Den and then attempt his timing attack yet again.

This is the dance of StarCraft timing; Having a timing that works on standards games, but realizing why it works so that you may shift your timing to adapt to what you see.

      Summary
I hope you can understand why timing is so important in any real-time, competitive situation. You must time your defences to avoid wasted resources. You must time your attacks when your opponent is weakest. You must time your production so that you maximize your economy or army when necessary.

This is why you will often hear Hot_Bid’s clichéd “He made a Sunken Colony??? That’s like 10 Drones lost.” and “Those eggs better all be Drones.”
Moderator
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
January 25 2008 23:39 GMT
#2
terrible
BuGzlToOnl
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States5918 Posts
January 25 2008 23:46 GMT
#3
On January 26 2008 08:39 zulu_nation8 wrote:
terrible


made me giggle
If you want to make God laugh, tell Him your plans.
azndsh
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States4447 Posts
January 25 2008 23:46 GMT
#4
mostly pretty obvious stuff to the experienced gamer, but well-written nonetheless

perhaps mention something about stalling your opponent to wait for your own timing to kick in
intrigue
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Washington, D.C9934 Posts
January 25 2008 23:49 GMT
#5
nice! most starting players have absolutely zero sense of this, and it keeps them from advancing to the next level beyond just macro macro macro attack move attack move
Moderatorhttps://soundcloud.com/castlesmusic/sets/oak
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
January 25 2008 23:50 GMT
#6
I haven't read it yet
skyglow1
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
New Zealand3962 Posts
January 25 2008 23:57 GMT
#7
Good stuff. Thankfully it didn't conflict majorly with what I had in mind about how timing worked in starcraft.
Equinox_kr
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States7395 Posts
January 26 2008 00:10 GMT
#8
Good shit Chill.

Some interesting stuff in there that I didn't know :O
^-^
Rayzorblade
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United States1172 Posts
January 26 2008 00:36 GMT
#9
Thanks for the guide.

I consider myself an "okay" player and I think I learned a few things from this, specifically about "counter-timing" - never gave this concept much thought.

(On second thought, I'm probably just a terrible player).
B1nary
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada1267 Posts
January 26 2008 01:19 GMT
#10
Thanks for the guide. I'm a noob and I sort of had a general sense of this stuff but it's good to see it solidly written up. Helped alot =D
LonelyIslands
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Canada590 Posts
January 26 2008 02:12 GMT
#11
<-- Josh lol. Thanks Blake <3
My heart and my mind will carry my body when my limbs are too weak
EvilTeletubby
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
Baltimore, USA22259 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-01-26 02:26:43
January 26 2008 02:26 GMT
#12
Very nice Chill. I admittedly don't step into the Strat forum too often but I'm very glad I did.
Moderatorhttp://carbonleaf.yuku.com/topic/408/t/So-I-proposed-at-a-Carbon-Leaf-concert.html ***** RIP Geoff
grobo
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Japan6199 Posts
January 26 2008 03:17 GMT
#13
Sweet post there Chill, lots of useful info for a shitty player like myself.
We make signature, then defense it.
Equinox_kr
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States7395 Posts
January 26 2008 04:02 GMT
#14
BTW, why doesn't the thread title have a ! behind it? It's a great guide and worthy of being put into the recommended threads
^-^
pyrogenetix
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
China5098 Posts
January 26 2008 04:31 GMT
#15
a great guide
Yea that looks just like Kang Min... amazing game sense... and uses mind games well, but has the micro of a washed up progamer.
Phyre
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States1288 Posts
January 26 2008 04:39 GMT
#16
Nice stuff, thanks for taking the time to write this up.
"Oh no, I got you with your pants... on your face... That's not how you wear pants." - Nintu, catching 1 hatch lurks.
Raithed
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
China7078 Posts
January 26 2008 05:09 GMT
#17
On January 26 2008 08:39 zulu_nation8 wrote:
terrible

sometimes, posts like this makes me wonder if chill PMs guys like this(even though theyre friends or whatever) and be all like "WARNING!!" heh.
MoNKeYSpanKeR
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States2869 Posts
January 26 2008 05:36 GMT
#18
nice chill, cemented some of my ideas about timign that i don't talk about, i think i have very weak timing, but my micro and macro are strong, but without timing those become relatively useless :/
<3's Mani and Seraphim, thx for the second chance. TSL Name: TSL-mSLeGenD
CTStalker
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Canada9720 Posts
January 26 2008 05:40 GMT
#19
all of us sing about this
By the way, my name is Funk. I am not of your world
Seraphim
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States4467 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-01-29 16:28:15
January 26 2008 05:55 GMT
#20
We V-tec players have been doing this for years...

Haha, jk - nice guide Chill
Hermes | Bisu[Shield] Fighting~!
1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
11:00
#83
WardiTV1038
OGKoka 309
Rex137
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko408
OGKoka 309
Hui .221
SortOf 164
Rex 137
ProTech17
LamboSC2 6
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 9509
BeSt 872
firebathero 685
Mini 655
EffOrt 633
Soma 432
Stork 349
Snow 308
actioN 261
Rush 226
[ Show more ]
Larva 164
Soulkey 162
Pusan 156
ggaemo 137
ToSsGirL 134
Hyun 129
hero 100
Killer 69
Sea.KH 57
Sharp 49
Backho 49
sSak 30
JulyZerg 22
yabsab 20
Hm[arnc] 20
SilentControl 15
Terrorterran 14
Shine 14
Noble 11
Bale 9
zelot 8
Icarus 7
eros_byul 1
Dota 2
Gorgc5285
qojqva858
BananaSlamJamma29
League of Legends
Reynor53
Counter-Strike
byalli433
allub258
markeloff122
Other Games
hiko635
B2W.Neo608
Mlord414
crisheroes278
Pyrionflax209
Liquid`LucifroN158
ArmadaUGS81
RotterdaM39
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream11904
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream3430
Other Games
BasetradeTV221
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV367
League of Legends
• Nemesis2239
• TFBlade1972
Upcoming Events
Monday Night Weeklies
2h 22m
RSL Revival
12h 22m
GSL
18h 22m
Afreeca Starleague
20h 22m
Barracks vs Leta
Royal vs Light
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
21h 22m
RSL Revival
1d 20h
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
2 days
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
Escore
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
4 days
Universe Titan Cup
4 days
Rogue vs Percival
Ladder Legends
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
BSL
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
5 days
Ladder Legends
6 days
BSL
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W3
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W4
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.