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! [G] Definitions - Page 3

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary26003 Posts
October 24 2007 17:17 GMT
#41
Wow youre fast.
I found that as I proofread it and changed it.
Moderator
Payt
Profile Joined June 2003
Canada582 Posts
October 24 2007 17:18 GMT
#42
haha. yeah, just bad timing.
XaI)CyRiC
Profile Joined October 2002
United States4471 Posts
October 24 2007 17:32 GMT
#43
I think cloning should mention the fact that the targeting of multiple units is accomplished by group selecting and then deselecting the units one by one. At least that's what I've always thought cloning entailed. For example, I don't believe it was considered cloning when Boxer locked down all those BCs by assigning individual Ghosts to different hotkeys.
Moderator
XaI)CyRiC
Profile Joined October 2002
United States4471 Posts
October 24 2007 17:38 GMT
#44
In regards to cliffing, I believe it'd be more accurate to state that it's the utilization of ranged units/defensive structures to attack from high ground, generally in a way that makes it difficult for opposing ground units to dislodge them, and then state that it is often accomplished with sieged tanks, lurkers and cannons.
Moderator
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary26003 Posts
October 24 2007 17:39 GMT
#45
I don't want to get into how to do everything, or else we have to explain how do you stack mutas, how do you hold lurkers, how do you etc.

This is supposed to help noobs who have no idea wtf is going on. So if someone says "you have terrible scourge, clone your scourge against vessels" and this kid has no idea what's going on, will he be able to understand once he reads these definitions?

At least that's what I've been thinking in the back of my head while writing these.
Moderator
XaI)CyRiC
Profile Joined October 2002
United States4471 Posts
October 24 2007 17:40 GMT
#46
In regards to dancing, I believe that not only is it the management of unit cooldown, but also the maneuvering of damaged units to the back to rotate healthier units to the front.
Moderator
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary26003 Posts
October 24 2007 17:40 GMT
#47
But, putting tanks on your high ground at 9 on Python isn't cliffing. I don't even think lining the high ground on Hitchhiker with Tanks is cliffing. Do you?
Moderator
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32154 Posts
October 24 2007 17:41 GMT
#48
On October 25 2007 02:39 Chill wrote:
I don't want to get into how to do everything, or else we have to explain how do you stack mutas, how do you hold lurkers, how do you etc.

This is supposed to help noobs who have no idea wtf is going on. So if someone says "you have terrible scourge, clone your scourge against vessels" and this kid has no idea what's going on, will he be able to understand once he reads these definitions?


yeha, that's better than describing it. Im trying to learn poker now, and the defs are killing me. Something like this would help a lot there. Terminology guides are usefull
PROFESSIONAL GAMER - SEND ME OFFERS TO JOIN YOUR TEAM - USA USA USA
XaI)CyRiC
Profile Joined October 2002
United States4471 Posts
October 24 2007 17:52 GMT
#49
On October 25 2007 02:39 Chill wrote:
I don't want to get into how to do everything, or else we have to explain how do you stack mutas, how do you hold lurkers, how do you etc.

This is supposed to help noobs who have no idea wtf is going on. So if someone says "you have terrible scourge, clone your scourge against vessels" and this kid has no idea what's going on, will he be able to understand once he reads these definitions?

At least that's what I've been thinking in the back of my head while writing these.


I agree that you shouldn't go too far into the actual mechanics or processes, but when the very definition of something is based upon how it's accomplished it should be included. When you're defining a particular tactic or technique, as opposed to a theory, strategy or concept, a general description of how it's pulled off is going to be needed.

As an example, for BOs, a general description of what it's tryin to accomplish and how it accomplishes it is enough. The actual specific build is unnecessary. Describing a 9hat 9pool as a hungry build that sacrifices economy for better defense against cheese or rushes while also taking an expansion is sufficient, without including the actual build itself. However, for tactics such as air unit stacking or hold lurker, these are actual "moves" (for lack of a better term) and how they are done is what defines them.

If you don't say that air unit stacking is accomplished by including including a unit of a different type within a control group, then the person you're trying to explain it to doesn't really know what air unit stacking is. It could be confused with just manually pulling your air units together. If you don't say that hold lurker is accomplished by group selecting lurkers with another unit that has a hold function, then you're not really defining what hold lurker is. It could be confused with stop lurker or even allied lurker. The same could be said for allied mine being confused with blinded mines, or other similar tactics.
Moderator
XaI)CyRiC
Profile Joined October 2002
United States4471 Posts
October 24 2007 17:56 GMT
#50
On October 25 2007 02:40 Chill wrote:
But, putting tanks on your high ground at 9 on Python isn't cliffing. I don't even think lining the high ground on Hitchhiker with Tanks is cliffing. Do you?


I sorta do, but I understand if you don't consider it as such. If you want to narrow it to the attacking of expansions or workers, you could modify it to

"The utilization of ranged units/defensive structures to attack expansions or workers from high ground, generally in a way that makes it difficult for opposing ground units to dislodge them. This is often accomplished with sieged tanks, lurkers and cannons."

My only MINOR concern is that cliffing can be done to main bases as well, although it's rare for a map to have a main that can be cliffed. I seem to remember some bases where this is possible, but they are few and far between so it doesn't seem like a real concern.
Moderator
XaI)CyRiC
Profile Joined October 2002
United States4471 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-10-24 18:07:38
October 24 2007 18:02 GMT
#51
In regards to contain, isn't it basically the usage of a choke to keep a player inside their base? My only concern with your definition is that contains can be accomplished with any unit, so long as they're keeping their opponent at home. You can contain a P with a large amount of lings in early game, you can contain a Z with m&m early in the same way. The way your currently define a contain may confuse people when others suggest that they attempt to "contain" their opponent while meaning that they should keep them at home instead of setting up a wall of tanks, lurkers or cannons.

Suggestion: "Preventing an opponent from leaving their base or natural expansion by maintaining an army outside of their entrance. Generally this is accomplished by the utilization of a choke, superior unit count or the setting up of defensive units/buildings."

In regards to cooldown, I think should change "firing" to "attacking". It's a minor change (so totally okay if you don't change it), but not all units "fire".

In regards to counter, I would suggest you change "while his army is out" to "while his army is attacking another location". After all, the idea of a counter is to react to an attack with another attack. I don't believe it really fits when the guy's army just happens to be somewhere else, such as defending a new expansion.
Moderator
XaI)CyRiC
Profile Joined October 2002
United States4471 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-10-24 18:23:39
October 24 2007 18:10 GMT
#52
I think the definitions of micro and macro are too narrow, but it will probably have to take some work to come up with good definition. I understand that you don't want to get into a discussion as to what macro and micro really are, since it can turn into a rather involved discussion (as has happened in threads), but making the definitions too narrow isn't very good either. Other people have come up with some pretty good definitions in other threads, but I don't have those links handy. Maybe make a thread asking people to suggest definitions for these terms, as they're such major concepts that it's actually worthy of its own thread.

Should we define expansion? Maybe "A base constructed at another resource location other than your main base."

I think proxy should change from "Building a building outside your main base, generally closer to your opponent to help execute a rush quicker or to conceal a certain tactic or strategy."

The definition of 2 Gate implies that it necessitates a Zealot rush, which I feel is misleading. 2 Gate is often suggested not just to rush, but also because it's "safe" and handles rushes better than 1 Gate builds. Maybe just say it's a standard PvZ build order that involves getting two Gateways before gas, and supports a Zealot rush. Or even "Two gates before gas", since you put "Two factories before expansion" for 2 Fact.
Moderator
XaI)CyRiC
Profile Joined October 2002
United States4471 Posts
October 24 2007 18:18 GMT
#53
By the way, a lot of these definitions are great. Just wanted to mention that since I don't want anyone to think that my suggesting all these changes is meant as a criticism of Chill's efforts.
Moderator
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary26003 Posts
October 24 2007 18:28 GMT
#54
No your suggestions are great, even if I don't agree with all of them - we were having good discussion going. I'm just eating lunch so I'll take a look after I'm done.
Moderator
fanatacist
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
10319 Posts
October 24 2007 18:44 GMT
#55
Cannon rush? Bunker rush? Sunk rush (ZvZ)? #Pool? Manner gas?

I think there was a name for lifting barracks and landing them in the opponent's base, I might be wrong though.

Also for pylons blocking the ramp in PvT.
Peace~
mahnini
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
United States6862 Posts
October 24 2007 21:04 GMT
#56
The current Crackling describes a Speedling change that and add Crackling!
the world's a playground. you know that when you're a kid, but somewhere along the way everyone forgets it.
fanatacist
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
10319 Posts
October 24 2007 21:07 GMT
#57
On October 25 2007 06:04 mahnini wrote:
The current Crackling describes a Speedling change that and add Crackling!

When I think of Crackling I think of 3-3 + adrenal glands Speedling o;
Peace~
Equinox_kr
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States7395 Posts
October 25 2007 03:15 GMT
#58
I thought it was just a Zergling with both Metabolic Boost and Adrenal Glands, had no idea it also needed the 3-3 portion of it to be considered a crackling :-/
^-^
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary26003 Posts
October 25 2007 03:29 GMT
#59
Cracklings used to be: 3-3 + metabolic + adrenaline
Over the past couple years the definition has changed to just metabolic + adrenaline
Speedlings are just Metabloic
Moderator
blagoonga123
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States2068 Posts
October 25 2007 09:01 GMT
#60
Why are manner pylons called Manner pylons?
FOOL! Pain is my friend! Now let me introduce you to it!
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