EPTFBH's SK terran guide for beginners
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jinjin5000
United States1476 Posts
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kogeT
Poland2041 Posts
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EsX_Raptor
United States2802 Posts
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ggsimida
1148 Posts
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JoinTheRain
Bulgaria409 Posts
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kogeT
Poland2041 Posts
On April 28 2020 19:49 JoinTheRain wrote: Oh, 150 apm SKT guide, amazing More like 120-130.  | ||
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True_Spike
Poland3426 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
It's a good guide and a good translation. | ||
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Brainojack
Canada195 Posts
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yubo56
690 Posts
On April 30 2020 23:24 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Thing is about his APM, the reason he can do "so much" with his 140 APM is that he isn't really having 140 apm. He has extremely high bursts of APM and then periods of inactivity. A "real" 140 APM player wouldn't do his whole macro cycle in 2 seconds. Or hotkey and command his army around in a 3 seconds. Or instantaneously react to a blip on the minmap of lurkers running into his marines and spread and stim them before the lurkers even finished borrowing. Or clone a bunch of irradiates so quickly. Or blind 4 lurkers so fast the unit panel doesn't even flicker at one point. He's also extremely precise. Selecting 12 marines from mixed group of marines and medics to hotkey. That selection of science vessel energy for instance is something I've tried but could never do as I get confused by the shifting units in the unit panel. It's a good guide and a good translation. Partially agree, but I think it's obvious from this video that even if you have just e.g. 180-200 apm, you can play quite passable SK just by playing very cleanly and coolly. I don't think his bursts are as high as you're making them out to be, except for the macro cycles, which anybody can practice pressing M faster. The splits and target fire and the mouse accuracy are definitely pretty unrealistic for "140 apm" though. Impressive nonetheless! Jinjin's other FlaSh "for noobs" videos are quite a bit more optimized, it's cool seeing a progamer actually trying to forget his muscle memory for these F rank videos. It's not all the way there, but it's closer | ||
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Oystein
Norway1602 Posts
Thanks for all these translations Jinjin, I really enjoy them. | ||
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Dante08
Singapore4139 Posts
On May 01 2020 07:38 Oystein wrote: As others have said its not very attainable for your average BW player to do this. Its great watching him do this at 130 apm, but things like spreading those marines under the ramp at the 3rd or cloning vessels perfectly is incredibly hard to do even for good players, the precision he has doing these things are incredible. Very useful guide in how to move your units and what to do in the game tho. Thanks for all these translations Jinjin, I really enjoy them. True, I was amazed looking at the apm counter that he's playing SK Terran with only 130 apm. It sort of changed my opinion of needing a certain level of apm to play BW at a high level, your knowledge of the game and game sense can more than make up for low apm. Yes he has many bursts of high apm but he also focuses his apm on the important things that are going on in the game like reacting to the minimap, defending expos and casting irriadiate. He even let his minerals go up to 2-3k and advised the viewers it's fine to let your money go up as long as you do this and this. Amazing really. | ||
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Highgamer
1448 Posts
On May 04 2020 12:32 Dante08 wrote: True, I was amazed looking at the apm counter that he's playing SK Terran with only 130 apm. Thing is, it's not actually true for the SK-Terran part. And I think it's not just a few spikes as some people pointed out, he's constantly faster in the second half of the game. It's still educational to see that you can play like that with such a relatively low APM, like not 300 or s.th. That old APM-counter he uses shows an overall APM, not current. Constantly computing "total actions/total game time passed". So without some more math we don't know how fast he played during, e.g., minute 15 when there is more action than in minute 4. If you look at 5.00, he is only at 90 APM, at 10.00 he's at 120, at the end around 135, the number is climbing constantly. So a reasonable guess is that he's been playing quite a bit faster than 135 APM from minute 5 onward to push the overall APM that much. Maybe 150-160? Someone with decent math skillz can get the number. Still impressive to see, but not as chilled as a real 130 (e)APM player (I assume they don't waste many clicks). 20-30 eAPM more than usual is not something that you just pull off. You could say that in a way every normal APM-count is warped because people spam for the first 5 minutes, sometimes like crazy going up to 400-600. So hardly anyone with an APM of 300 actually has had that APM throughout the actually busy phases of the game, let alone eAPM which could be 100 or more lower, depending on how many clicks you waste. Here FBH is trying to cut all spam and holds back a little bit overall, so what we see is close to eAPM. For an eAPM, 150 (in the busy phases) would actually be quite high already, shattering the impression that everyone can play SK-Terran like that. I would say that in the second half his eAPM is not THAT much different from many A-class players with economic APM-use. In any case it's not really 135. I don't want to disencourage any lowAPM-player who wants to SK-Terran, but ppl tend to draw flawed conclusions from these kinds of vids, just like recently with Flash's 2Fact-TvP-Guide "for everyone". A few beginner-friendly VoDs shouldn't shatter certainties that we acquired over decades, like that proper SK-Terran is hard AF to play, mainly because of it's mechanical requirements. But as others have mentioned, very informative for strategy, decision-making, army-movement etc. Thx for the translation! | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On May 01 2020 04:18 yubo56 wrote: Pressing M faster is an important skill to attain. The faster you can click and press M the more time spare for other tasks, which is how multitasking can occur. I would say you need 100 apm at a minimum to macro SK terran, but then you have no time spare to do anything else. For some even 100 apm is a tough goal to reach. 180-200 apm is more than enough for "passable" SK Terran. Anyways all this talk is confusing the measurement from the outcomes somewhat.Partially agree, but I think it's obvious from this video that even if you have just e.g. 180-200 apm, you can play quite passable SK just by playing very cleanly and coolly. I don't think his bursts are as high as you're making them out to be, except for the macro cycles, which anybody can practice pressing M faster. The splits and target fire and the mouse accuracy are definitely pretty unrealistic for "140 apm" though. Impressive nonetheless! Jinjin's other FlaSh "for noobs" videos are quite a bit more optimized, it's cool seeing a progamer actually trying to forget his muscle memory for these F rank videos. It's not all the way there, but it's closer On May 04 2020 12:32 Dante08 wrote: He wasn't playing BW at a high level. The Zerg opponent went 3 hatch muta but couldn't muta micro properly. He killed 2 marines with the initial 8/9 mutas and then gave up when one of the mutas died. When he attacked the staggered marines which were crossing over from the dead third to his nat he couldn't even keep the mutas stacked. Those marines would had been completely wiped out at a "high" level with little loss. The zerg doesn't know how to stack lurkers on top of ramp. The zerg never got scourge to counter the science vessels. Playing bw at a high level this is not. Most likely the Zerg has 137 apm or less himself. And unlike FBH, it is his "true" apm. True, I was amazed looking at the apm counter that he's playing SK Terran with only 130 apm. It sort of changed my opinion of needing a certain level of apm to play BW at a high level, your knowledge of the game and game sense can more than make up for low apm. Don't get me wrong, it's a good guide, but people are just fooling themselves if they think they can play at high level with 137 apm. On May 04 2020 21:07 Highgamer wrote: Is that how his APM counter works? Ever since remastered, bwchart and suchlike don't work for me but I think the in game apm counter uses a moving average.+ Show Spoiler + On May 04 2020 12:32 Dante08 wrote: True, I was amazed looking at the apm counter that he's playing SK Terran with only 130 apm. Thing is, it's not actually true for the SK-Terran part. And I think it's not just a few spikes as some people pointed out, he's constantly faster in the second half of the game. It's still educational to see that you can play like that with such a relatively low APM, like not 300 or s.th. That old APM-counter he uses shows an overall APM, not current. Constantly computing "total actions/total game time passed". So without some more math we don't know how fast he played during, e.g., minute 15 when there is more action than in minute 4. If you look at 5.00, he is only at 90 APM, at 10.00 he's at 120, at the end around 135, the number is climbing constantly. So a reasonable guess is that he's been playing quite a bit faster than 135 APM from minute 5 onward to push the overall APM that much. Maybe 150-160? Someone with decent math skillz can get the number. Still impressive to see, but not as chilled as a real 130 (e)APM player (I assume they don't waste many clicks). 20-30 eAPM more than usual is not something that you just pull off. You could say that in a way every normal APM-count is warped because people spam for the first 5 minutes, sometimes like crazy going up to 400-600. So hardly anyone with an APM of 300 actually has had that APM throughout the actually busy phases of the game, let alone eAPM which could be 100 or more lower, depending on how many clicks you waste. Here FBH is trying to cut all spam and holds back a little bit overall, so what we see is close to eAPM. For an eAPM, 150 (in the busy phases) would actually be quite high already, shattering the impression that everyone can play SK-Terran like that. I would say that in the second half his eAPM is not THAT much different from many A-class players with economic APM-use. In any case it's not really 135. I don't want to disencourage any lowAPM-player who wants to SK-Terran, but ppl tend to draw flawed conclusions from these kinds of vids, just like recently with Flash's 2Fact-TvP-Guide "for everyone". A few beginner-friendly VoDs shouldn't shatter certainties that we acquired over decades, like that proper SK-Terran is hard AF to play, mainly because of it's mechanical requirements. But as others have mentioned, very informative for strategy, decision-making, army-movement etc. Thx for the translation! | ||
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Highgamer
1448 Posts
On May 04 2020 23:20 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Is that how his APM counter works? Ever since remastered, bwchart and suchlike don't work for me but I think the in game apm counter uses a moving average. Yes, it seems really old school, with the clock at the top and APM top-right, maybe he's using some unofficial client. You can see that the APM-counter doesn't react to more or less click-heavy parts of the game at all, only over time does it it rise. I assume that's because it calculates the current overall APM of the game, unlike the counter that's build into SC:R right now that jumps up and down, a "moving average" as you said. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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