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TvZ Mech Switch on Fighting Spirit - Page 2

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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Prev 1 2 3 Next All
icystorage
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Jollibee19350 Posts
April 01 2014 09:03 GMT
#21
this is very in depth and well-made. awesome work
LiquidDota StaffAre you ready for a Miracle-? We are! The International 2017 Champions!
Reuental
Profile Joined July 2009
United States457 Posts
April 01 2014 10:40 GMT
#22
On April 01 2014 15:08 iFU.pauline wrote:
That is not a small thing at all, you need to send 2 scv or else you will lose a lot of games to 9pool if you don't scout it first -_-


You know this is really really crazy, but if you are afraid of 9 pool or scout him last you could build your CC in your main. Any drone scout quicker than the standard 12 drone scout from zerg is a HUGE indicator of a 9 pool also.
I'm a Crab made of men.
Birdie
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
New Zealand4438 Posts
April 01 2014 11:21 GMT
#23
On April 01 2014 19:40 Reuental wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2014 15:08 iFU.pauline wrote:
That is not a small thing at all, you need to send 2 scv or else you will lose a lot of games to 9pool if you don't scout it first -_-


You know this is really really crazy, but if you are afraid of 9 pool or scout him last you could build your CC in your main. Any drone scout quicker than the standard 12 drone scout from zerg is a HUGE indicator of a 9 pool also.

...who drone scouts with 9pool? You can't really afford it...
Red classic | A butterfly dreamed he was Zhuangzi | 4.5k, heading to 5k as support!
pebble444
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Italy2498 Posts
April 01 2014 15:00 GMT
#24
Well, in my Experience, when you open up vs a zerg walling in is much more unneccesary and should be generally avoided. With 1 or 2 marines and a couple scvs you can block the ramp and hold off the 9 pool. I think you should be aware right from the beginning of a series of factors: if there is lag in game, there is more likely to be cheese. If your laddering, again more likely. If a fast scout, again more likely. Other factors include, have you played that person before, how they control their scout. A double scv scout at the correct supply timing will erase any doubt and reveal the enemy BO. Most of the times thats what you want to do, but you can' t blind double scout every game. You have to go with your feeling, with the flow, with whats going on. You have to be prepared for anything. To not make marines and get a cc, to make more marines and get cc on high ground. To put down that 18/18 depot in a panic situation is often not acknowledged.
Again from my experience, a 12 hatch is more likely than other builds, especially vs terran. But every game you must react differently, and every game you must be prepared and react, and be willing to change your game plan and not being stubborn about it. The more you are able to scout, the more you are able to react. The more you can react, the more you can inflict damage and gain some kind of advantage on your enemy. The more you get an advantage the more you can finish him off. Applying all these steps correctly, is what differenciates low level players from high level ones. This can be applied to any level of starcraft, wheter it the home game where you get an expo at 11 minutes, or the Pro scene. This is all very basic as well, but its really the key to winning i feel


"Awaken my Child, and embrace the Glory that is your Birthright"
SnowFantasy
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
4173 Posts
April 01 2014 15:46 GMT
#25
On April 01 2014 20:21 Birdie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2014 19:40 Reuental wrote:
On April 01 2014 15:08 iFU.pauline wrote:
That is not a small thing at all, you need to send 2 scv or else you will lose a lot of games to 9pool if you don't scout it first -_-


You know this is really really crazy, but if you are afraid of 9 pool or scout him last you could build your CC in your main. Any drone scout quicker than the standard 12 drone scout from zerg is a HUGE indicator of a 9 pool also.

...who drone scouts with 9pool? You can't really afford it...


Jaedong.

You may have heard of him.
SynC[gm]
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States3127 Posts
April 01 2014 17:38 GMT
#26
On April 02 2014 00:46 SnowFantasy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2014 20:21 Birdie wrote:
On April 01 2014 19:40 Reuental wrote:
On April 01 2014 15:08 iFU.pauline wrote:
That is not a small thing at all, you need to send 2 scv or else you will lose a lot of games to 9pool if you don't scout it first -_-


You know this is really really crazy, but if you are afraid of 9 pool or scout him last you could build your CC in your main. Any drone scout quicker than the standard 12 drone scout from zerg is a HUGE indicator of a 9 pool also.

...who drone scouts with 9pool? You can't really afford it...


Jaedong.

You may have heard of him.

Who?
twitch.tv/dizzywee
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-01 18:44:17
April 01 2014 18:44 GMT
#27
Pretty cool guide. Skimmed it but plan to read it through thanks!

On April 02 2014 02:38 SynC[gm] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 02 2014 00:46 SnowFantasy wrote:
On April 01 2014 20:21 Birdie wrote:
On April 01 2014 19:40 Reuental wrote:
On April 01 2014 15:08 iFU.pauline wrote:
That is not a small thing at all, you need to send 2 scv or else you will lose a lot of games to 9pool if you don't scout it first -_-


You know this is really really crazy, but if you are afraid of 9 pool or scout him last you could build your CC in your main. Any drone scout quicker than the standard 12 drone scout from zerg is a HUGE indicator of a 9 pool also.

...who drone scouts with 9pool? You can't really afford it...


Jaedong.

You may have heard of him.

Who?

dat troll
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Birdie
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
New Zealand4438 Posts
April 01 2014 19:42 GMT
#28
On April 02 2014 00:46 SnowFantasy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2014 20:21 Birdie wrote:
On April 01 2014 19:40 Reuental wrote:
On April 01 2014 15:08 iFU.pauline wrote:
That is not a small thing at all, you need to send 2 scv or else you will lose a lot of games to 9pool if you don't scout it first -_-


You know this is really really crazy, but if you are afraid of 9 pool or scout him last you could build your CC in your main. Any drone scout quicker than the standard 12 drone scout from zerg is a HUGE indicator of a 9 pool also.

...who drone scouts with 9pool? You can't really afford it...


Jaedong.

You may have heard of him.

Give link? I'm interested in seeing that.
Red classic | A butterfly dreamed he was Zhuangzi | 4.5k, heading to 5k as support!
amazingxkcd
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
April 01 2014 20:14 GMT
#29
On April 01 2014 19:40 Reuental wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2014 15:08 iFU.pauline wrote:
That is not a small thing at all, you need to send 2 scv or else you will lose a lot of games to 9pool if you don't scout it first -_-


You know this is really really crazy, but if you are afraid of 9 pool or scout him last you could build your CC in your main. Any drone scout quicker than the standard 12 drone scout from zerg is a HUGE indicator of a 9 pool also.


it's more of a matter of having that information vs playing super greedy. Zergs don't normally drone scout with a 9 pool (lol), and I haven't downloaded Flash hacks yet.
The world is burning and you rather be on this terrible website discussing video games and your shallow feelings
Reuental
Profile Joined July 2009
United States457 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-01 21:15:47
April 01 2014 21:11 GMT
#30
On April 01 2014 19:40 Reuental wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2014 15:08 iFU.pauline wrote:
That is not a small thing at all, you need to send 2 scv or else you will lose a lot of games to 9pool if you don't scout it first -_-


You know this is really really crazy, but if you are afraid of 9 pool or scout him last you could build your CC in your main. Any drone scout quicker than the standard 12 drone scout from zerg is a HUGE indicator of a 9 pool also.


I was wrong, me never 9 pooling and playing vs greedy Ts has colored my view.

Hiya vs Killer: + Show Spoiler +
http://www.teamliquid.net/replay/download.php?replay=2051

Fantasy vs Force[name]: + Show Spoiler +
http://www.teamliquid.net/replay/download.php?replay=1978


On April 02 2014 05:14 amazingxkcd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2014 19:40 Reuental wrote:
On April 01 2014 15:08 iFU.pauline wrote:
That is not a small thing at all, you need to send 2 scv or else you will lose a lot of games to 9pool if you don't scout it first -_-


You know this is really really crazy, but if you are afraid of 9 pool or scout him last you could build your CC in your main. Any drone scout quicker than the standard 12 drone scout from zerg is a HUGE indicator of a 9 pool also.


it's more of a matter of having that information vs playing super greedy. Zergs don't normally drone scout with a 9 pool (lol), and I haven't downloaded Flash hacks yet.


I can't remember a specific pro vod where the zerg scouts while 9 pooling. In the Jaedong vs P replay pack there is a game where he scouts with a drone when 9 pooling, was either on grand line or la mancha, can't remember.
I'm a Crab made of men.
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
April 01 2014 21:44 GMT
#31
On April 01 2014 20:21 Birdie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2014 19:40 Reuental wrote:
On April 01 2014 15:08 iFU.pauline wrote:
That is not a small thing at all, you need to send 2 scv or else you will lose a lot of games to 9pool if you don't scout it first -_-


You know this is really really crazy, but if you are afraid of 9 pool or scout him last you could build your CC in your main. Any drone scout quicker than the standard 12 drone scout from zerg is a HUGE indicator of a 9 pool also.

...who drone scouts with 9pool? You can't really afford it...


You'll be pleased to know that you, can, in fact, afford it.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
SnowFantasy
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
4173 Posts
April 01 2014 23:33 GMT
#32
The rent ain't too damn high.

It's quite affordable.
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10682 Posts
April 24 2014 14:56 GMT
#33
Its very simple the reasoning behind drone scouting when 9 pooling in ZvT only on a 4 player map, if you 9 pool on 4 player map you have to scout to know where to send lings so the build can maximize damage vs T. On 2 or even 3 player map it shouldnt be necessary to drone scout because on 2 player map u know where to go and on 3 player map like longinus, or rush hour, you should be able to figure it out with ovie timing, of course you can afford it, your forced into affording it because if you send lings to wrong location on 4 player map you automatically made it less cost effective and now you cant afford the build, bc not only did you not do damage, you didnt force scvs off mining so T suffered nothing. Vs P i wouldnt scout with drone when 9 pooling because its easier for protoss to stop 9pool, i mean you could potentially just win if he nexus first, but the 9pool alone will just force cannons , delay gateway, and also from my experience, a good 2 gate will come out on top vs 9 pool because zergs forced to keep making lings and will have lesser econ than overpool, which will effect Z in the later stages of the game. IMHO
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
NinjoOb
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada128 Posts
May 09 2014 23:46 GMT
#34
On April 01 2014 05:55 [[Starlight]] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2014 02:29 SynC[gm] wrote:
On April 01 2014 01:10 [[Starlight]] wrote:
Q for Nina:

In the guide you say that "Note that unlike TvP, you don't want to wall off your ramp, because Zerglings can get through it anyway (unless you're going with some factory opening, but we're not talking about that)...".

But, if I'm reading some other guides right, it does seem like you can make a zergling-proof wall-in (and with just a rax and a depot), as long as the top of the rax and the bottom of the depot overlap slightly. Like this:


[image loading]



So, assuming a ling-proof wall-in, are there times when T walling their ramp could be advantageous, IYO?

I assume she's talking about mainly FS, Circuit Breaker, La Mancha and what have you. You can't make Zergling tight walls on those maps unless you use a unit or two to block off certain openings for the Zerglings.

Ah, okay. So the ramps are a little different in respect to WIs on different tilesets and/or maps, got it.

I previously thought 'a ramp is a ramp is a ramp', except for very narrow ones, like those on 815.




IIRC, you can make a ling tight wall at the 1o'clock position on FS with 2 depots over the rax next to the ramp. I don't know about the other maps though.
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
May 10 2014 04:56 GMT
#35
The only ling-tight wall is depot on top of depot on top of barracks. This wall is zealot-tight:

[image loading]

But allows marines to get through to shoot at zealots. However, to make a truly zergling-tight wall, you need like 3 depots, and by then there's no need to worry about zerglings unless you're going 2-port wraith or something.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
Prodigy.MvP
Profile Joined September 2013
Canada176 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-14 16:35:21
May 14 2014 16:34 GMT
#36
eh a few things are wrong but overall good guide, nice job nina!
im 15 years old folks!
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
May 14 2014 18:11 GMT
#37
On May 15 2014 01:34 Prodigy.MvP wrote:
eh a few things are wrong but overall good guide, nice job nina!



[오전 11:36:44] PassiOn: nina
[오전 11:36:47] PassiOn: wuts good nigga?
[오전 11:37:02] PassiOn: i read ur guide
[오전 11:37:18] PassiOn: is good, few things wrong but
[오전 11:37:20] PassiOn: good job nina


thanks x2
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
Prodigy.MvP
Profile Joined September 2013
Canada176 Posts
May 14 2014 21:09 GMT
#38
On May 15 2014 03:11 ninazerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2014 01:34 Prodigy.MvP wrote:
eh a few things are wrong but overall good guide, nice job nina!


Show nested quote +

[오전 11:36:44] PassiOn: nina
[오전 11:36:47] PassiOn: wuts good nigga?
[오전 11:37:02] PassiOn: i read ur guide
[오전 11:37:18] PassiOn: is good, few things wrong but
[오전 11:37:20] PassiOn: good job nina


thanks x2


K
im 15 years old folks!
dRaW
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada5744 Posts
May 15 2014 05:10 GMT
#39
On March 29 2014 18:24 Birdie wrote:
Show nested quote +
Against mass mutalisk: Type "lol ur bad", then start irradiating.

Tell that to Iris

Nice guide otherwise


LOL this is from the skyhigh RAK, i ended up watching the whole series, fucking almost 3hrs :D gosu
I don't need luck, luck is for noobs, good luck to you though
Izerman
Profile Joined May 2013
Sweden99 Posts
May 28 2014 23:34 GMT
#40
hm i built a supply depot in my natural and felt a slap in the face just after.
was that you nina?

what the hell woman
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