• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:21
CET 08:21
KST 16:21
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
2026 KongFu Cup Announcement3BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains15Weekly Cups (March 2-8): ByuN overcomes PvT block4GSL CK - New online series18
StarCraft 2
General
BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Terran AddOns placement
Tourneys
RSL Season 4 announced for March-April PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 KongFu Cup Announcement [GSL CK] Team Maru vs. Team herO
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 516 Specter of Death Mutation # 515 Together Forever Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BSL 22 Map Contest — Submissions OPEN to March 10 ASL21 General Discussion Are you ready for ASL 21? Hype VIDEO Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL22] Open Qualifiers & Ladder Tours IPSL Spring 2026 is here! ASL Season 21 Qualifiers March 7-8
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread No Man's Sky (PS4 and PC)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Mexico's Drug War Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine NASA and the Private Sector
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread General nutrition recommendations Cricket [SPORT] TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2162 users

TvZ Mech Switch on Fighting Spirit - Page 2

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 Next All
icystorage
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Jollibee19350 Posts
April 01 2014 09:03 GMT
#21
this is very in depth and well-made. awesome work
LiquidDota StaffAre you ready for a Miracle-? We are! The International 2017 Champions!
Reuental
Profile Joined July 2009
United States457 Posts
April 01 2014 10:40 GMT
#22
On April 01 2014 15:08 iFU.pauline wrote:
That is not a small thing at all, you need to send 2 scv or else you will lose a lot of games to 9pool if you don't scout it first -_-


You know this is really really crazy, but if you are afraid of 9 pool or scout him last you could build your CC in your main. Any drone scout quicker than the standard 12 drone scout from zerg is a HUGE indicator of a 9 pool also.
I'm a Crab made of men.
Birdie
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
New Zealand4438 Posts
April 01 2014 11:21 GMT
#23
On April 01 2014 19:40 Reuental wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2014 15:08 iFU.pauline wrote:
That is not a small thing at all, you need to send 2 scv or else you will lose a lot of games to 9pool if you don't scout it first -_-


You know this is really really crazy, but if you are afraid of 9 pool or scout him last you could build your CC in your main. Any drone scout quicker than the standard 12 drone scout from zerg is a HUGE indicator of a 9 pool also.

...who drone scouts with 9pool? You can't really afford it...
Red classic | A butterfly dreamed he was Zhuangzi | 4.5k, heading to 5k as support!
pebble444
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Italy2503 Posts
April 01 2014 15:00 GMT
#24
Well, in my Experience, when you open up vs a zerg walling in is much more unneccesary and should be generally avoided. With 1 or 2 marines and a couple scvs you can block the ramp and hold off the 9 pool. I think you should be aware right from the beginning of a series of factors: if there is lag in game, there is more likely to be cheese. If your laddering, again more likely. If a fast scout, again more likely. Other factors include, have you played that person before, how they control their scout. A double scv scout at the correct supply timing will erase any doubt and reveal the enemy BO. Most of the times thats what you want to do, but you can' t blind double scout every game. You have to go with your feeling, with the flow, with whats going on. You have to be prepared for anything. To not make marines and get a cc, to make more marines and get cc on high ground. To put down that 18/18 depot in a panic situation is often not acknowledged.
Again from my experience, a 12 hatch is more likely than other builds, especially vs terran. But every game you must react differently, and every game you must be prepared and react, and be willing to change your game plan and not being stubborn about it. The more you are able to scout, the more you are able to react. The more you can react, the more you can inflict damage and gain some kind of advantage on your enemy. The more you get an advantage the more you can finish him off. Applying all these steps correctly, is what differenciates low level players from high level ones. This can be applied to any level of starcraft, wheter it the home game where you get an expo at 11 minutes, or the Pro scene. This is all very basic as well, but its really the key to winning i feel


"Awaken my Child, and embrace the Glory that is your Birthright"
SnowFantasy
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
4173 Posts
April 01 2014 15:46 GMT
#25
On April 01 2014 20:21 Birdie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2014 19:40 Reuental wrote:
On April 01 2014 15:08 iFU.pauline wrote:
That is not a small thing at all, you need to send 2 scv or else you will lose a lot of games to 9pool if you don't scout it first -_-


You know this is really really crazy, but if you are afraid of 9 pool or scout him last you could build your CC in your main. Any drone scout quicker than the standard 12 drone scout from zerg is a HUGE indicator of a 9 pool also.

...who drone scouts with 9pool? You can't really afford it...


Jaedong.

You may have heard of him.
SynC[gm]
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States3127 Posts
April 01 2014 17:38 GMT
#26
On April 02 2014 00:46 SnowFantasy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2014 20:21 Birdie wrote:
On April 01 2014 19:40 Reuental wrote:
On April 01 2014 15:08 iFU.pauline wrote:
That is not a small thing at all, you need to send 2 scv or else you will lose a lot of games to 9pool if you don't scout it first -_-


You know this is really really crazy, but if you are afraid of 9 pool or scout him last you could build your CC in your main. Any drone scout quicker than the standard 12 drone scout from zerg is a HUGE indicator of a 9 pool also.

...who drone scouts with 9pool? You can't really afford it...


Jaedong.

You may have heard of him.

Who?
twitch.tv/dizzywee
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-01 18:44:17
April 01 2014 18:44 GMT
#27
Pretty cool guide. Skimmed it but plan to read it through thanks!

On April 02 2014 02:38 SynC[gm] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 02 2014 00:46 SnowFantasy wrote:
On April 01 2014 20:21 Birdie wrote:
On April 01 2014 19:40 Reuental wrote:
On April 01 2014 15:08 iFU.pauline wrote:
That is not a small thing at all, you need to send 2 scv or else you will lose a lot of games to 9pool if you don't scout it first -_-


You know this is really really crazy, but if you are afraid of 9 pool or scout him last you could build your CC in your main. Any drone scout quicker than the standard 12 drone scout from zerg is a HUGE indicator of a 9 pool also.

...who drone scouts with 9pool? You can't really afford it...


Jaedong.

You may have heard of him.

Who?

dat troll
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Birdie
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
New Zealand4438 Posts
April 01 2014 19:42 GMT
#28
On April 02 2014 00:46 SnowFantasy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2014 20:21 Birdie wrote:
On April 01 2014 19:40 Reuental wrote:
On April 01 2014 15:08 iFU.pauline wrote:
That is not a small thing at all, you need to send 2 scv or else you will lose a lot of games to 9pool if you don't scout it first -_-


You know this is really really crazy, but if you are afraid of 9 pool or scout him last you could build your CC in your main. Any drone scout quicker than the standard 12 drone scout from zerg is a HUGE indicator of a 9 pool also.

...who drone scouts with 9pool? You can't really afford it...


Jaedong.

You may have heard of him.

Give link? I'm interested in seeing that.
Red classic | A butterfly dreamed he was Zhuangzi | 4.5k, heading to 5k as support!
amazingxkcd
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
April 01 2014 20:14 GMT
#29
On April 01 2014 19:40 Reuental wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2014 15:08 iFU.pauline wrote:
That is not a small thing at all, you need to send 2 scv or else you will lose a lot of games to 9pool if you don't scout it first -_-


You know this is really really crazy, but if you are afraid of 9 pool or scout him last you could build your CC in your main. Any drone scout quicker than the standard 12 drone scout from zerg is a HUGE indicator of a 9 pool also.


it's more of a matter of having that information vs playing super greedy. Zergs don't normally drone scout with a 9 pool (lol), and I haven't downloaded Flash hacks yet.
The world is burning and you rather be on this terrible website discussing video games and your shallow feelings
Reuental
Profile Joined July 2009
United States457 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-01 21:15:47
April 01 2014 21:11 GMT
#30
On April 01 2014 19:40 Reuental wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2014 15:08 iFU.pauline wrote:
That is not a small thing at all, you need to send 2 scv or else you will lose a lot of games to 9pool if you don't scout it first -_-


You know this is really really crazy, but if you are afraid of 9 pool or scout him last you could build your CC in your main. Any drone scout quicker than the standard 12 drone scout from zerg is a HUGE indicator of a 9 pool also.


I was wrong, me never 9 pooling and playing vs greedy Ts has colored my view.

Hiya vs Killer: + Show Spoiler +
http://www.teamliquid.net/replay/download.php?replay=2051

Fantasy vs Force[name]: + Show Spoiler +
http://www.teamliquid.net/replay/download.php?replay=1978


On April 02 2014 05:14 amazingxkcd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2014 19:40 Reuental wrote:
On April 01 2014 15:08 iFU.pauline wrote:
That is not a small thing at all, you need to send 2 scv or else you will lose a lot of games to 9pool if you don't scout it first -_-


You know this is really really crazy, but if you are afraid of 9 pool or scout him last you could build your CC in your main. Any drone scout quicker than the standard 12 drone scout from zerg is a HUGE indicator of a 9 pool also.


it's more of a matter of having that information vs playing super greedy. Zergs don't normally drone scout with a 9 pool (lol), and I haven't downloaded Flash hacks yet.


I can't remember a specific pro vod where the zerg scouts while 9 pooling. In the Jaedong vs P replay pack there is a game where he scouts with a drone when 9 pooling, was either on grand line or la mancha, can't remember.
I'm a Crab made of men.
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
April 01 2014 21:44 GMT
#31
On April 01 2014 20:21 Birdie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2014 19:40 Reuental wrote:
On April 01 2014 15:08 iFU.pauline wrote:
That is not a small thing at all, you need to send 2 scv or else you will lose a lot of games to 9pool if you don't scout it first -_-


You know this is really really crazy, but if you are afraid of 9 pool or scout him last you could build your CC in your main. Any drone scout quicker than the standard 12 drone scout from zerg is a HUGE indicator of a 9 pool also.

...who drone scouts with 9pool? You can't really afford it...


You'll be pleased to know that you, can, in fact, afford it.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
SnowFantasy
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
4173 Posts
April 01 2014 23:33 GMT
#32
The rent ain't too damn high.

It's quite affordable.
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10700 Posts
April 24 2014 14:56 GMT
#33
Its very simple the reasoning behind drone scouting when 9 pooling in ZvT only on a 4 player map, if you 9 pool on 4 player map you have to scout to know where to send lings so the build can maximize damage vs T. On 2 or even 3 player map it shouldnt be necessary to drone scout because on 2 player map u know where to go and on 3 player map like longinus, or rush hour, you should be able to figure it out with ovie timing, of course you can afford it, your forced into affording it because if you send lings to wrong location on 4 player map you automatically made it less cost effective and now you cant afford the build, bc not only did you not do damage, you didnt force scvs off mining so T suffered nothing. Vs P i wouldnt scout with drone when 9 pooling because its easier for protoss to stop 9pool, i mean you could potentially just win if he nexus first, but the 9pool alone will just force cannons , delay gateway, and also from my experience, a good 2 gate will come out on top vs 9 pool because zergs forced to keep making lings and will have lesser econ than overpool, which will effect Z in the later stages of the game. IMHO
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
NinjoOb
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada128 Posts
May 09 2014 23:46 GMT
#34
On April 01 2014 05:55 [[Starlight]] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2014 02:29 SynC[gm] wrote:
On April 01 2014 01:10 [[Starlight]] wrote:
Q for Nina:

In the guide you say that "Note that unlike TvP, you don't want to wall off your ramp, because Zerglings can get through it anyway (unless you're going with some factory opening, but we're not talking about that)...".

But, if I'm reading some other guides right, it does seem like you can make a zergling-proof wall-in (and with just a rax and a depot), as long as the top of the rax and the bottom of the depot overlap slightly. Like this:


[image loading]



So, assuming a ling-proof wall-in, are there times when T walling their ramp could be advantageous, IYO?

I assume she's talking about mainly FS, Circuit Breaker, La Mancha and what have you. You can't make Zergling tight walls on those maps unless you use a unit or two to block off certain openings for the Zerglings.

Ah, okay. So the ramps are a little different in respect to WIs on different tilesets and/or maps, got it.

I previously thought 'a ramp is a ramp is a ramp', except for very narrow ones, like those on 815.




IIRC, you can make a ling tight wall at the 1o'clock position on FS with 2 depots over the rax next to the ramp. I don't know about the other maps though.
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
May 10 2014 04:56 GMT
#35
The only ling-tight wall is depot on top of depot on top of barracks. This wall is zealot-tight:

[image loading]

But allows marines to get through to shoot at zealots. However, to make a truly zergling-tight wall, you need like 3 depots, and by then there's no need to worry about zerglings unless you're going 2-port wraith or something.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
Prodigy.MvP
Profile Joined September 2013
Canada176 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-14 16:35:21
May 14 2014 16:34 GMT
#36
eh a few things are wrong but overall good guide, nice job nina!
im 15 years old folks!
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
May 14 2014 18:11 GMT
#37
On May 15 2014 01:34 Prodigy.MvP wrote:
eh a few things are wrong but overall good guide, nice job nina!



[오전 11:36:44] PassiOn: nina
[오전 11:36:47] PassiOn: wuts good nigga?
[오전 11:37:02] PassiOn: i read ur guide
[오전 11:37:18] PassiOn: is good, few things wrong but
[오전 11:37:20] PassiOn: good job nina


thanks x2
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
Prodigy.MvP
Profile Joined September 2013
Canada176 Posts
May 14 2014 21:09 GMT
#38
On May 15 2014 03:11 ninazerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2014 01:34 Prodigy.MvP wrote:
eh a few things are wrong but overall good guide, nice job nina!


Show nested quote +

[오전 11:36:44] PassiOn: nina
[오전 11:36:47] PassiOn: wuts good nigga?
[오전 11:37:02] PassiOn: i read ur guide
[오전 11:37:18] PassiOn: is good, few things wrong but
[오전 11:37:20] PassiOn: good job nina


thanks x2


K
im 15 years old folks!
dRaW
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada5744 Posts
May 15 2014 05:10 GMT
#39
On March 29 2014 18:24 Birdie wrote:
Show nested quote +
Against mass mutalisk: Type "lol ur bad", then start irradiating.

Tell that to Iris

Nice guide otherwise


LOL this is from the skyhigh RAK, i ended up watching the whole series, fucking almost 3hrs :D gosu
I don't need luck, luck is for noobs, good luck to you though
Izerman
Profile Joined May 2013
Sweden99 Posts
May 28 2014 23:34 GMT
#40
hm i built a supply depot in my natural and felt a slap in the face just after.
was that you nina?

what the hell woman
Prev 1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 40m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 36211
Killer 1130
ToSsGirL 112
HiyA 106
Hm[arnc] 83
ZergMaN 76
Noble 46
Dota 2
XaKoH 424
NeuroSwarm202
League of Legends
JimRising 701
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1299
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King156
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor223
Other Games
summit1g8882
WinterStarcraft431
Happy111
Moletrap4
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick705
ComeBackTV 241
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1680
• HappyZerGling133
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2h 40m
RSL Revival
2h 40m
ByuN vs SHIN
Maru vs Krystianer
WardiTV Team League
4h 40m
Patches Events
9h 40m
BSL
12h 40m
GSL
1d
Wardi Open
1d 4h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 9h
OSC
1d 16h
WardiTV Team League
2 days
[ Show More ]
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
KCM Race Survival
4 days
WardiTV Team League
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
KCM Race Survival
5 days
WardiTV Team League
5 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
BSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-13
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
BSL Season 22
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

CSL Elite League 2026
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
2026 Changsha Offline CUP
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
NationLESS Cup
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.