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On November 06 2013 15:59 iFU.pauline wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2013 15:00 Shock710 wrote:
I know you turn two colonies into sunkens in this game, but u also said you dont have to if theres no terran early pressure, and you had around 150 minerals left over after the lurker upgrade. Do you think its a good idea to squeeze out a 4th hatch (macro hatch in ur main) if you manage to cut the two sunkens?
You could have it started before the hydra den is up and it wouldnt really delay the lurker upgrade because ur just reallocating resources.
But maybe its a bad idea because u'll have too much larvae and not enough econ to spend it.
Can i have your opinion on this? Thanks No don't do that, it's risky because normally Terran should go for early medic and will go out at around 5min, if you put your expand on top of a third hatch and you have to morph 3 sunk it will hurt your eco really bad and when your spire pops out you won't have enough mineral to make 6 mutalisks, terran will have a huge advantage and he will have time to deny your expand before lurkers. Sometimes the game might not go very well and you should not take your expand if you feel that you are late in your bo, in this case just put third hatch in your main and take expand when you have lurker. (also this situation is more difficult to handle but you still have all chances to win) Just go hive with the same timing.
ah yep that makes sense, if u build the hatch and he does happen to push out u'll be cutting either lurkers or mutas to get those sunkens up in time.
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That's a very nice of you to make a guide! It's always a pleasure to understand how other players think, why they make "this" decision instead of "that", etc.
The only thing I didn't understand is: do you really need that early sunken? Marine SCV rush seems to be ineffective, especially since you send ling for scouting. So you will have time to put some sunkens and will save the hatch (there creep already, which means no place for bunker). Moreover in this exact game you already saw a CC, which means no gas, no early marines.
You should also explain how your build works against terran playing mech from 1 and 2 bases and against terran playing bio from 1 base. So will be waiting for new videos! ^^
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On November 07 2013 23:27 Larvator wrote:
That's a very nice of you to make a guide! It's always a pleasure to understand how other players think, why they make "this" decision instead of "that", etc.
The only thing I didn't understand is: do you really need that early sunken? Marine SCV rush seems to be ineffective, especially since you send ling for scouting. So you will have time to put some sunkens and will save the hatch (there creep already, which means no place for bunker). Moreover in this exact game you already saw a CC, which means no gas, no early marines.
You should also explain how your build works against terran playing mech from 1 and 2 bases and against terran playing bio from 1 base. So will be waiting for new videos! ^^
Yes you need that creep colony, then morphing it is totally up to you, you are going for a greedy build therefore you should not give a chance to terran to hurt your eco or else the handicap will be too much. What if you see vulture and you can't make your sunk in time? What if just after you send back the drone after scouting him he takes 8 scv and rally point marines to your natural? Even if you send zergling it will be too late because you didn't put a sunk. Maybe it doesn't happen often on iccup but on fish as soon as they see an opening they will do it. And you should not be delayed in this build at any cost, this sunk will back you up if ever you forgot or didn't notice something, it's for pure safety 
It is true I can save mineral with those sunks, but I preferred to make a tutorial where you are faced to a situation that you can't do it, because build order that works only if you put not more than one sunk, I don't call that a solution at all Also good terran know that they have to find a way to put pressure on you before your muta when you are doing this build.
If terran is going mech, honestly this is not good news but you can still play it in many ways, if i don't feel like going on a macro game i would put third hatch just after spire make my 8 muta put my den make some drone and my chamber evolv with +1 attack and then full hydra, if your timing is good there is a way to kill him right away before he has tank. (in this case you don't put 3 sunks of course).
If you feel like macroing then expand as usual (a close third is recommended) but instead of going hive, put your third hatch mass drone and mass hydra. Usually I still do lurker because this way he can't really push you early with goliaths.
Sometimes you can anticipate mech because terran will make a bunker while expanding, in this case you can just launch your speed ling upgrade then your lair, make few more drones and full ling him, works very often, don't try to kill the bunk, just run to his main. (Terran should not know about it so it's important that you get rid of his scv, usually his scv dies by scouting the natural because of your early sunk) trust me this early sunk is very useful 
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i haven't seen this variation of 2 hatch before, but the timings are very strong. Well done!
Like others said your english is fine, don't let it keep you from doing more bw videos.
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STOP GIVING OUT OUR ZERG SECRETS !!!! in swarm we trust , and all shall fall.
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On November 08 2013 18:07 LRM)INF3cted wrote:
STOP GIVING OUT OUR ZERG SECRETS !!!! in swarm we trust , and all shall fall.
We should not be greedy and help the swarm to get better, the youngsters are the future 
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Hi pauline! I wrote down your version of 2 h muta like this so I can practice it easier. Maybe it can help others.
12 Hatch Build Order
12 - Hatchery + scout
11 - Spawning Pool
13 - Extractor
2 Lings
@100G - Lair
16 - Overlord
@100 G - ling Speed
20 Sunk (if no scout of T)
@100% Lair - Spire
Nat Extractor
Drone to 3rd
Drone to 25
2 Overlords
2 Sunks
6 Mutas
Hydra Den
2 Mutas
Lurker Aspect
Mk 5-7 Lurkers
Queens Nest
Hive
Watch out for dropship!
@Hive: Hatch, Dmound, Evo Cham,
Greater spire, nydus
Consume
Hydra Range, Ovie speed
4th Expo
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2h muta build is designed to do some damage in early. 8 mutas to do enough damage? I doubt so. Early sunken punish your economy, it should be made in the last possible moment, like when you see the medics with your scouting ling.
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On November 14 2013 19:35 trutaCz wrote:
2h muta build is designed to do some damage in early. 8 mutas to do enough damage? I doubt so. Early sunken punish your economy, it should be made in the last possible moment, like when you see the medics with your scouting ling.
You can do more damage if you want to make more muta but it delays your lurker and terran can more easily deny your third. It's ok to put sunk at the last moment, but at the first mistake it's gg. The point is to be able to secure third gas, not to be greedy, I guess it's fine to play like this when you are really good but when you start with that kind of strat it's better to play secure then play more greedy as your lvl increase, of course it's just my opinion.
PLaying on the limits like that with a 2 hatch muta build i think at the end you lose more because of stupid mistake than a real standard game, like you needed one more sunk or terran has been sneaky and you didn't see his marines. I think it's stupid to lose this way, that's why i recommend a more defensive gameplay and as you improve it's up to you to adapt.
This tutorial is for zerg beginners that want to get out of the standard 3 hatch muta build without especially going for an all in.
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is it weird that i listen to this as i sleep? your english is good. please make moar!
this build has helped me win many games, weird because I always thought it was suicide (for nubs like me) compared to 3 hatch muta style.
thanks for sharing this build. it is siiiick, my friends dont know what hit em.
My only question is what would you do if you saw mass factories and goliaths. Would you make more mutas and harass? Or would you get the lurkers and contain, and stay in 2nd tier while getting mass drones and hydra upgrades? Or do you keep going for the defilers?
I also find that this strat works best if you can deny that scv from scouting the spire, so instead of sunkens i get more lings. kinda slows me down but sometimes the terran really has no idea what is coming since he hasnt scanned me or scouted me.
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On November 15 2013 01:53 Golgotha wrote:
is it weird that i listen to this as i sleep? your english is good. please make moar!
this build has helped me win many games, weird because I always thought it was suicide (for nubs like me) compared to 3 hatch muta style.
thanks for sharing this build. it is siiiick, my friends dont know what hit em.
My only question is what would you do if you saw mass factories and goliaths. Would you make more mutas and harass? Or would you get the lurkers and contain, and stay in 2nd tier while getting mass drones and hydra upgrades? Or do you keep going for the defilers?
I also find that this strat works best if you can deny that scv from scouting the spire, so instead of sunkens i get more lings. kinda slows me down but sometimes the terran really has no idea what is coming since he hasnt scanned me or scouted me.
It is really up to you... You can play the way you want, if he is going for a fast expand with goliath i suggest you take a third make a maximum of drone and go hydra lurker with drop, if he is going for 3 facts in his main I suggest you put your third hatch and go for muta zergling with +1 carap for your lings.
Everything works vs mech for as long as you have more units than him...
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This and 3 hatch muta are the two standard 12 hatch builds vs terran. Different timings and different strategies. 2 hatch mutalurk is heavy tech limited by gas and 3 hatch mutaling has a stronger econ with less tech. Both super fun vs terrans!
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If u a agressive whit your mutalisks terran can`t really denied your 3th , or even move out on the map.Any small forces before vessel timing are dead and buried.
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On November 18 2013 00:48 LRM)INF3cted wrote:
If u a agressive whit your mutalisks terran can`t really denied your 3th , or even move out on the map.Any small forces before vessel timing are dead and buried.
Yup. I found out that those 8 mutas are easily enough to keep Terran in base and you get lurkers at 8 minutes mark anyways.
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EPT
