EPTSame thing but moreso with queens.
this thread does make me want to use queens though for some reason. ; ]
Viability of Queens. - Page 2
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red.venom
United States4651 Posts
Same thing but moreso with queens. this thread does make me want to use queens though for some reason. ; ] | ||
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tKd_
United States2916 Posts
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Drowsy
United States4876 Posts
On August 29 2006 18:10 tKd_ wrote: I honestly think queens have the largest potential in zvp where you can parasite and spawn broodling templar in late game, as I don't want my lings getting owned so easily, which only leaves ultras =/. I've also thought about the fact that irradiating queens saves you 25/25 if you consider the lurker being irradiated prior to queens. There was a point where I used them a lot, and I still should. This thread comes up alot but I rarely see reps with severe queen use. Yes, particularly in long games involving both reavers and templars, if more tosses started using reavers in addition to their templars, I think zergs would use broodling zvp. | ||
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ahk-gosu
Korea (South)2099 Posts
unlike defilers, they cannot consume units for energy so you have to wait. only real time ive used the queen is when i went lurker ling and command centers were lifted. i used to infest and not for its spells. parasite has huge potential in zvp imo. parasite on archons or shuttles is awesome. | ||
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tKd_
United States2916 Posts
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skindzer
Chile5114 Posts
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On August 29 2006 19:51 skindzer wrote: Ensnare only slow donws the attack speed of certain units and not in the same degree. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=41799#14 It slows attack speed of almost all units. Here's the stats: http://p200.ezboard.com/ftsunamisstrategyforumfrm1.showMessage?topicID=222.topic From that topic (someone REALLY REALLY needs to do some independent verification): === I did, as promised, some tests to calculate the %decrease in fire rate of ensnaire. Since zerg and toss have regeneration and teran buildings tend to die faster when at red HP i used tanks for ground damage and BC's or vessels for air damage. Before giving the results(which are very interesting and strange) i wanna state that they came from experiments and because of that may not be 100% precise. OK, enough with the silly introduction, let the numbers talk!!!!!!! Zerg Units -Lings 15% decrease -Hydras 15% decrease -Mutes 15% decrease (quite boring huh?) -Ultras UNCHAGED!!!! Yes u read right. Ensnaire does not affect ultras. -Cracklings 25% decrease Terran Units -Marines 17% decrease -Stimmed Marines 23% decrease (though other tests suggests it's more of 45-50%, negating stim entirely) -Golies UNCHANGED BOTH AIR AND GROUND. So next time dont be surprised if your lings get raped of ensnaired gollies -Wraith 16% decrease -BCs air 16%....BCs ground 4%. Pretty strange but i did this many times and the results were the same. Ensnaire has different effect on air and ground BCs attack!!!! -Valks 18-20% decrease. -I left firebats for the end because they are so hard to calculate. The trick is to have the tanks that take the damage at exactly the same angle towards firebats fire. If tanks are at 45 angle towards firebat fire they take more damage for some reason compared to 90 or 0 angle. Anyway, all things considered equal ensnaire decreases firebat rate by 29%. That's the largest decrease of all!!! Toss Units -Zealots 16% decrease -Goons air 14%, Goons ground 11% decrease. Pretty strange again but that's what i found, period. -Archon air 20%, Archon ground 3% decrease. What can i say people, hope u correct me. -Dts 22% decrease -Carriers UNCHANGED. When ensnairing carriers directly, fire rate doesn't decrease. Then i tried to ensnaire some interceptors. I didn't notice any change either. That gave me much grieve!!!!! -Sairs 12% decrease -Scout air 16% decrease. Forgot to test ground. I'd like to add that guradian's decrease is about 11% while (to my great dissapointment) siege tanks and reavers are not affected. Lurker cooldown IS affected by ensnaire, but you have to ensnaire it while it is above the ground first in order to take affect. Ensnaring a burrowed lurker even though detected does nothing to its cooldown. Using the terran tank as a target, I allowed the ensnared lurker to get the first hit, and the unensnared lurker to attack right after, the result being the unensnared lurker winning and the ensnared lurker's tank having 17 hp left at the time the first tank was destroyed. I just woke up, so maybe my numbers are off but it would be around 11% decrease. | ||
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red.venom
United States4651 Posts
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28614 Posts
and parasite is really good vs protoss yeah broodling is good for stalemate situations but not otherwise | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
But yeah vs protoss its especially effective if you can get an archon or shuttle as they are usually relunctant to alienate them allowing you to see their movement or sacrifice a very nice unit (essentially a broodling). I seriously think broodling has viability vs tanks, stalemate or not. If the T is going mass tanks like 2-3 facts having a force of 4-5 Queens can allow you to keep that under control. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28614 Posts
and yeah parasite can be nice vs terran too, on vessels ive even encountered really good terrans who killed their parasited vessels instead of restoring them :'( | ||
Manifesto7
Osaka27139 Posts
On August 29 2006 17:28 Liquid`Drone wrote: I personally think, hell I'm certain, that pro zergs would experience a significant increase in win% vs terran if they tried focusing on adding queens to their game. =] totally 100% agree. ChoJJa is the only gamer I see using queens effectively in ZvT on a pro level. Other gamers only use them when the game is over or sometimes in ZvP. I also agree with the thought that they arent used because zergs can win without them. Gosh arent we smart drone? All of this leads me to believe that Zerg has the most potential left in their race, while terran is pretty much tapped and protoss lies somewhere in the middle (as a result of having to try constantly try new things always and haveing kang min). | ||
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red.venom
United States4651 Posts
Zerg: Unlock the Potential | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28614 Posts
mostly cause I've seen them win 50%+ without queens  | ||
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FirstProbe
1206 Posts
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red.venom
United States4651 Posts
Also I tested out some queen shit earlier, as far as I could tell it seemed to slow all attacking units I tried it on by about 20%(Which would be 40% for stimmed marines technically). Im amazed. | ||
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Olmer
Poland320 Posts
I'm not zerg player and I don't play a lot at all, so please correct me if I'm wrong (maybe some patch made range of Spawn Broodlings smaller?). | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28614 Posts
and it's 100/100 and it is definitely not too expensive | ||
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
That is actually troublesome for me to hear T.T So overall, about a 15% decrease in attack rate for ensnare? And certain units like DTs,Stims,Crax are a little more effected and the really pricey units are left more alone like Archons, BCS, Ultras, Carrier/Reavers? Hmm... neat. | ||
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