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list of valid unorthodox strats

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GrandInquisitor New York City13113 Posts August 25 2006 02:50 GMT #1 I'm sick and tired of the same old battles coming up every game. I want to compile a list of valid but unorthodox strategies for each matchup. (Nothing dumb like mass valks TvP, but nothing mainstream) EDIT: Not including proxy ZvZ: hydra/queen ZvT: muta/queen, queens in general, hydra/ling ZvP: ??? ZvX: 1base muta, 9 pool, BURROW RUSH TvZ: metal, fast mm drop TvT: mnm rush, mass wraith, marine/scv rush TvP: marine/medic/ghost/vessel, wraiths, mmf drop TvX: nuke rush, floating factories onto cliffs PvZ: sair/reav (sort of), goon/reav, Anytime-style mass dt, scout rush instead of sair rush PvT: sair/goon, STOVE PvP: sair/reav PvX: 1base carrier

paper 13196 Posts August 25 2006 02:55 GMT #2 the pod

thedeadhaji 39489 Posts August 25 2006 02:57 GMT #3 TvP 1 fact 2 port wraith?

GrandInquisitor New York City13113 Posts August 25 2006 03:06 GMT #4 wtf is the pod

Mortality United States4790 Posts August 25 2006 03:11 GMT #5 Funny that you are posting this. I was thinking about this myself. I've been experimenting with taking build orders out of the matchup they are intended for and modifying them as needed, particularly with Zerg since it is the race I feel least competant with. For instance, I've been trying things like 9 ol -> 9 pool for ZvP and ZvT, and then modifying the build from there to establish the macro I need to overpower my opponent (using early lings to slow down FE's and contain rushes). ZvZ: I'd say hydra/lurk/queen (get lurks and queens depending on his concentration of lings and mutas) is the only one. In so far as I can tell, basically all build orders are viable depending on the map. ZvT: Queens yes. I'd say also changing build orders like 12 pooling and 9 pooling and playing 1 base Zerg. In terms of late game also I've been experimenting with changing between heavy macro styles (sometimes reminiscient of the old school Sauron Zergs) and extremely micro intensive fast defiler styles. I really like watching Anomia for his micro intensive style. Also, ling/hydra, though not particularly effective unless you have art timing is very unusual and still *somewhat* viable (look at Shark vs GF). ZvP: Again I'd say 1 base Zerg, and again I say using 9 pools. 9 pool is very rare these days and plays very differently during the early game. TvZ: Metal for sure. I'd also add other ideas. Going early wraiths has become very unusual now. Also everyone plays FE or all-in rush these days. More old school 2 rax/1 fact pushing and 1 base fast mnm drop are good and not so common. BC's are surprisingly good except against defilers (remember, upgraded BC one shot kills a scourge). You can also try rax floating if you are devilish. TvT: mnm rush also for sure. Mass wraiths too. ^_^ TvP: Again mnm use. Late game add vessel make sure to EMP HT/arbs. Using ghosts TvP is art, even if you are using them in the standard way. Also, nuke rush and other nuke strategies. I angered a friend recently by killing his main nexus and later killing an expo with nukes. LOL (EMP on nexus + 1 nuke does the trick). I went fake double into 4 factory first so he wouldn't suspect anything and so I could defend normally while still having econ for the nukes. PvZ: Goon/reaver isn't so common but very good. 3 gate dts is art. Sair/reaver is actually pretty common but still fun. PvT: Sair/goon, Stove, but ALSO 1 BASE CARS!!! PvP: Again 1 base cars! More mid/late game you can also do mass reaver and even reaver/sair (dweb enemy goons/reavers and your reavers eat his zeals anyway so don't worry about them).

ShabZzoY! Great Britain760 Posts August 25 2006 03:20 GMT #6 zeal/goon timing attacks in pvz can work at some levels

Drowsy United States4876 Posts August 25 2006 03:50 GMT #7 Fast expoing, opening 2 gate sair, and then going goon/reaver with like 6-8 sairs and a+1 weapons is pretty awsome pvz

zergc1 Zimbabwe961 Posts August 25 2006 03:59 GMT #8 PvT : 1 base 4 gates zealot speed against FE @luna

Chill Calgary25987 Posts August 25 2006 04:00 GMT #9 I'm glad you capitalized Stove, because that was the first thing that came to mind when I read the thread title. The Stove is legendary

Slayer91 Ireland23335 Posts August 25 2006 04:07 GMT #10 ZvP: 1 base lurker drops gooooooooo

SuperJongMan Jamaica11586 Posts August 25 2006 04:10 GMT #11 In TvP, I firebat dropped Zooey ~_~ I dunno... I just find that if you think about the game, you don't always have to play standard. I dunno - - Those that have played me should understand. The only way I've beaten good players is through non standard play... or rather, I just haven't played standard since WAYYYYY back.

CubEdIn Romania5359 Posts August 25 2006 06:03 GMT #12 If you want unorthodox strats, you can just build whatever you like. If you want VALID unorthodox strats, most of the stuff listed above won't work. Just a few examples: TvP 2 port wriath: Yeah, because normal toss hardly ever gets goons with observers. O_o TvT m&m rush: Any terr who scouted m&m will mass vults and you stand NO chance whatsoever. It's like trying to kill lurks with probes they just suck at it. Maybe try 2 rax rines and rush with scvs before any vults can come out. If you wait for medics... it's bad. TvP ghosts: yes, it IS art. And not everyone can do art. So you make the call on that one. Nukes are lol vs any good toss. You might get one through but if he takes more then he was a noob anyway, and anything would have worked. Maybe if nobody saw any boxer replays it would have a higher rate of success but whenever I see ghosts i just add 2 canns more to expos and relax. So things that actually work? I'll set them in order of WOW-ness. a) TvZ two port wriaths into 5 port wriath (LOL!). Someone did this tho I don't remember who. You need the following ingredients: 1. good defended entrance, so lings won't go through, so you don't have to spend money on defence. 2. good micro, as you'll have to keep those bitches ALIVE and MOVING if you want to stand any change. 3. an adversary who's confident enough not to mass-spore. Eventually you'll end up with tons of minerals, in which case you lay down 6 barrax and mass m&m. If he goes anything but hydra and you're a decent player this CAN work. b) PvP horror-gates. I don't know how this is actually called but I've seen it done a lot in romanian-tournamets. It's like proxy-gating, except you do it in his base, in plain sight. You need: 1. To scout with 5th-6th drone and find him very fast 2. Have REALLY good zeal-micro 3. Understand PvP (your zeals should come just about when his come out, but he has an obvious economic advantage, so you need to even that out by killing probes. as your army increases try to take down lonely zeals and don't fight unless you can win or you absolutely have to. It will work on players with poor-er micro, or on idiots who think you're joking and stay on 1 gate.) c) PvP gates-in-base. I did this a lot on pgt cuz everyone was using the standard gate-cyber-gate-robo strat. Get one gate at home and 2 hidden in his base. If he's cocky and gets goon first you win, if he gets zeals try to keep them hidden as much as possible. Probably won't work if he spots them fast and gets a second gate before cyber core, or stops mining gas and basicly knows what he's doing. But it WILL work vs all those PGT players who play one-strat and just freeze when they see something new. d) One-base PvT. This works but doesn't usually kill. You can get just about anything: Carriers/Speed lots/3-4 drops like grrr did (2 reavs, 4 dts, 2 goons, zeals lol). But you have to expo as soon as you attack to make sure you make up for a lot of lost time. e) m&m vs toss: Works if he doesn't know what's comming. The way I do it is when playing random vs toss. I get terr and start up 10/12 barrax. When he scouts just kill probe and then get 8 scvs and 4 marines and rush him. Keep marines coming. He might have zealot which is GOOD because you have all those scvs to keep him busy. If you get in get bunkers and expo back home (don't gas, just expo). You should get there when he has 1, 2 goons tops to get some real damage done, also marines have to keep coming (by the time you re-group in front of his base you should have 5-6 or more to climb up his ramp). (special thanks to niai for showing me this one) Might work with medics too but cannons/2 gate goon+range/reav/dt/templar... are just too many things to handle. Basicly if he gets storm/reaver and you didn't do damage you're screwed. f) 1base anything vs zerg: hard but doable. I did 4 dt drop, corsair then 3dt drop, and my favourite: reav+dt drop. It takes a huge ammount of gas but it's just SO FUN. If he hasn't got any overlords at his main dt+reav own HARD. Then have storm ready and take 2 templars to his nat, killing drones there too. If you manage to do damage to main AND kill drones at expo he should be pretty much dead. Feel free to grab the expo when you drop his main with a few canns, just to be sure. g) m&m drops vs toss. That is much different than straigt-m&m. I had it done to me a few times either by dropship or getting barrax in my base (like on 6-9 LT). The terran build looks normal so toss isn't expecting anything fancy. So he will probably not get any canns at main. However you have to kill a decent number of probes to make up for your weird build-order. Pretty cute though. Should have 2-3 firebats. I will write more as remember them, if anyone things they're good.

Night[Mare Mexico4793 Posts August 25 2006 06:13 GMT #13 lol @ the horror gates.... doesnt seem very good into my eyes T.T

Empyrean 17015 Posts August 25 2006 06:19 GMT #14 Leave it to you to come up with this topic. We should game sometime again. I've been improving my PvZ (though you won't see it from the game I played against decaf) while letting my PvT slide so I could game with you (I finally lost a PvT against a friend, though it was 12v3 LT).

funkie Venezuela9376 Posts August 25 2006 06:20 GMT #15 1 base muta yo.

AiurZ United States429 Posts August 25 2006 06:22 GMT #16 i used to play with this guy who played the weirdest build tvz he opened 2rax, then gets a fast factory proxied outside his base. he floated the factory into the zerg base and tries to hide it and get some vultures to harass with, and once they discover the factory, he floats it onto their cliff to get machine shop and tanks, so he can siege the zergs nat. meanwhile, he got a starport right after his factory, and builds a wraith to harass with. while this is all going on, he gets an academy and a control tower and dropship, and then he usually drops 6 firebats and 2 medics onto the zergs mineral line, although sometimes he chose to do just a regular m&m drop. it was the most jaw dropping thing i had ever seen.

Alborz Canada1551 Posts August 25 2006 07:06 GMT #17 1hatch ultraling ^___________^

Mora Canada5235 Posts August 25 2006 07:07 GMT #18 was that player me? i've done that a few times. :O

decafchicken United States20074 Posts August 25 2006 08:16 GMT #19 On August 25 2006 12:06 GrandInquisitor wrote: wtf is the pod How do you not know the pod????? TvP Grot Push ftw!

jkillashark United States5262 Posts August 25 2006 08:29 GMT #20 rA crushed Kingdom in the Pringles 1 Semifinal when Kingdom tried to 1 base carrier him. It was really sad seeing Kingdom get crushed in 3 games like that, but then again it was rA's first MSL after a huge drought.

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