Cheers! I know there's no such perfecto build like 3 hatch muta can sort of be in zvt, but just something at my aids-level to repeat on and on and on again would be good, and I think I'll take a good look at 6 hatch hydra/savior's style.

Cheers!

pebble444

Italy2503 Posts

April 22 2016 02:00 GMT

#102

this guide is actually the shit! thank you for writing it, it is very well put toghether...
now, if only it was about terran or protoss

ninazerg

United States7291 Posts

June 07 2016 17:22 GMT

#103

Since I'm locked out of editing the OP, I'll just post this here:

I used to plop down an extractor, and when it finished, I'd just grab three drones and throw them at it. Since only one drone can enter the extractor at a time, this is a bit inefficient. Generally, in the early game, you'll have very few drones, and the little things matter.

So realistically, you can do a 14 extractor, and 13 hatch for your third. You should have all your larvae morphing into drones, and if you're not, then you may as well uninstall SC and play CoD:MW3, you stupid noob. When you hit 14 population, the first drone to hatch at 14 should make the extractor. Then put down ~~Old Yeller~~ your third hatchery at your third.

Harem

United States11393 Posts

June 09 2016 04:13 GMT

#104

you can edit the OP and second post now if someone didnt already get to it

Immaterial

Canada510 Posts

August 08 2016 02:27 GMT

#105

I hope this isn't considered a necro, but I just wanted to say thank you because this guide is so extremely helpful!! I played Brood War a bit as a kid, but mostly got into StarCraft during the WoL beta SC2 era... Now I can't be bothered to play SC2, so trying to learn Brood War.

To be honest, the extent of my practice so far has been trying to execute a perfect 3 hatch hydra bust against Protoss on Python. A pretty limited scope to be sure, but I do think it's improving my fundamentals nonetheless. After reading this guide I feel a lot more confident that I will be able to branch out into a more macro style of play soon.

So seriously thank you!!! The guide is excellent, and Brood War is unquestionably the most beautiful game of all time.

Edit: The fuck, I think I commented on this guide already a few years ago. Weird... hopefully it'll stick more this time haha

Ej_

47656 Posts

April 07 2017 16:52 GMT

#106

As 1.18 PTR is out and people are coming (back) to BW, I wanted to bump this thread as the OP has helped me greatly in the matchup.

I mean, of course, the 9hatch speedling allin.

ninazerg

United States7291 Posts

April 07 2017 17:39 GMT

#107

Edit: nvm

Ty2

United States1434 Posts

April 07 2017 18:31 GMT

#108

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ninazerg

United States7291 Posts

April 07 2017 18:34 GMT

#109

On April 08 2017 03:31 Ty2 wrote:
I'd recommend the savior analysis guide too for beginners.

I have that linked, and have the build order in the OP.

Xeln4g4

Italy1209 Posts

April 09 2017 08:45 GMT

#110

wrong post

Luddite

United States2315 Posts

July 03 2017 01:35 GMT

#111

Hi! Semi-necro here, but more people might want to see this thread and I have a question that I didn't see addressed anywhere.

When do you get your first evo chamber and carapace upgrade? The zvp guides on Liquipedia are inconsistent.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/3_Base_Spire_into_5_Hatch_Hydra_(vs._Protoss) says not to get evo chambers until pretty late in the game (110 supply)

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/4_Hatch_before_Gas_(vs._Protoss) says to start building one as soon as your first extractor is done, and research carapace before lair even.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/5_Hatch_before_Gas_(vs._Protoss) doesn't mention evo chambers or +1 upgrades at all.

Am I supposed to feel it out, and try to get carapace early only if the protoss is going +1 speedlots and I won't have mutas/lurkers? or is this something that different players do differently?

Ty2

United States1434 Posts

July 03 2017 03:25 GMT

#112

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Luddite

United States2315 Posts

July 03 2017 04:11 GMT

#113

Thanks for the lengthy answer Ty2. It helps, although I was kinda hoping there'd be a more simple answer that I can just memorize. It seems like ZvP is a lot more open and unstructured than ZvT, so I'm having trouble learning it. "Whenever you feel safe" seems to be the timing for a lot of things (4 base, give, upgrades, etc).

One thing jumped out at me- you make it sound like the normal state of affairs is for Protoss to be ahead of zerg on upgrades. Is that true? It's a little surprising, since the evo chamber is cheaper than a forge, and zerg upgrades research faster. I guess carapace is more expensive than Protoss weapons (150 vs 100). Still, I would have thought zerg could usually at least match Protoss in upgrades. But from what you said, that's only the case in unusual builds like what Mondragon did, or at specific timings that you have to anticipate and plan around. Is that basically right?

Ty2

United States1434 Posts

July 03 2017 07:44 GMT

#114

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Luddite

United States2315 Posts

July 03 2017 17:48 GMT

#115

Thanks for the thoughtful answer. I think that gives me a good starting point to work from- pick a timing and see how it feels, rather than obsess over adapting to the Protoss's build. Interesting that Liquipedia was totally wrong on the upgrade timings- I use it a lot for raw numbers, so I'll have to be wary of that in the future. But I guess it wouldn't be fair if Zerg got their upgrades faster.