EPT[G]Terran vs Protoss "The art of terran" - Page 2
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thezanursic
5484 Posts
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tryummm
774 Posts
(1) A 4-6 factory push is NOT an optimal timing attack. In fact, if you look through all the PvT VODs since the 2010-2011 Proleague Season (When Circuit Breaker, Aztec, Bloody Ridge, La Mancha, etc...were introduced) you will only find a handful of the 100s of PvT games where a Terran goes for an allin midgame push. The only game I can even really remember on the top of my head is Shuttle vs Reality @ Sniper Ridge (4 Factory push) and Bisu vs Hon_Sin @ Sniper Ridge (But Hon_Sin used a 2 factory push that killed Bisu's natural expansion so I'm not really sure if that counts even though Hon_Sin did follow up with a 5 Factory push). The reason why is because the Protoss' Observer arrives to the Terran base as the Terran is adding the Factories, so if the Terran player is playing against a Protoss who knows the theory behind defeating a 5 Factory push the Terran becomes severely behind. And its counter intuitive to play a strategy game if you rely on your opponent simply not knowing how to play against your build. Other than hoping your opponent doesn't scout your expansion and hiding the Factories in your expansion there is really no way to hide the fact you're doing a 5 Factory push from a Protoss. Moreover, your scouting section is incomplete. If a Terran runs their SCV around the Protoss base until the SCV dies that means the Terran player is a newb and isn't going to play optimally in the midgame since they won't know what kind of strategy they are against. You will not find a professional Terran player who runs their SCV around a Protoss base like most Terran players presume. However, if a Terran simply sends a scouting SCV in about 2-3 seconds before Dragoon Range finishes they can deduce a 100% efficient response to any strategy the Protoss is using (ex: Flash vs Jangbi @ Bloody Ridge OSL RO8). When you scout at that timing you look for if Dragoon range completes and a Protoss Nexus. If you scout: (a) 1 Nexus + Range: The Protoss is playing standard and the Terran should either make a Third CC off 1 Factory or commit to a 2 Base 2 Factory 3 Tank 3 Vulture + Marine attack timing (Depending on the map). (b) 1 Nexus + No Range: Attack with the FD (6 Marines + Tank + Vulture/Mines). (c) No Nexus + Range: Block the front with Barracks/Depot and get an Engineering Bay to protect against a Dragoon ferry into the main base and Reaver followup (This build is shown in Jangbi vs Mind @ Ground Zero). (d) No Nexus + No Range: Get an Engineering Bay off 1 Factory and prepare for DT (Walking or Dropped in main) and/or Reavers. (ex: Shy vs Iris @ Sniper Ridge). There are more modern methods to deduct the same scout timings other than the SCV timing I specified earlier, but I'll let Terran players go out and find those timings themselves if they want to never lose to a cheese again. However, I hope I showed how you can make sure you source your information in guides and when giving playing advice to make sure the information your giving is actually legitimate and not made up or inefficient. Edit: Another misconception a lot of newbie Terrans have about TvP is attacking with an FD. A Terran should not attack with an FD against a Dragoon Range build unless they want to coin flip against a Protoss who goes for a 1 Dragoon Nexus (The SK Nexus Build) where the Protoss only follows up with one Gateway. This is because the Protoss will only have 3 Dragoons to defend against an FD at this time. In theory, 3 Dragoons will clean up an FD without a Protoss losing a single Dragoons, however its possible the Protoss may make a micro management mistake and the Terran can end up ahead. However, a Terran should NEVER attack with an FD against 4 or more Dragoons that have range (So against a standard build the Protoss will have 4 Dragoons + Range so the Terran shouldn't attack with the FD). The builds a Protoss will have 4+ Dragoons: 10/15 Gateway, 2 Dragoon Expand (Most common PvT opening...some newbs who get their Nexus ~30 seconds late call this a 3 Dragoon expand), 13 Nexus, SK Nexus build (2 Gateway version like Bisu vs Baby @ Alternative in its debut). | ||
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
On September 14 2012 04:14 t0ssboy wrote: Actually you are quite wrong.4 5 and/or 6 fact are designed especially for punishing greedy tosses in the midgame There are all ins you can do, and timing attacks that punish GREEDY play. But if the Protoss isn't making a mistake, Abso is right: You can't attack. Only if he makes a mistake, or if you decide to go all in. Both of those things aren't gonna happend too much at high level play. You won't be able to punish greedy play because there won't be any. The Protoss won't over extend and give you an opportunity to kill him with a timing. As for all ins, they can work rarely even at a proffessional level, but in ZvP / PvZ you can do harassment and small attacks without going all in, so he still has a point. You get more of it than in TvP. | ||
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puppykiller
United States3128 Posts
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On September 06 2012 03:56 UPro-BW wrote: good guide but advices how to handle carriers and arbiters are required The question shouldn't be "how to handle a certain threat with a certain tactics?". The question is "how can I win the game before that circumstances even arise in the first place?". And the answer to that is to macro better, scan at the proper time intervals. From the gathered information, know the correct timing to place down Turrets + Mine defenses. | ||
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wearmydiamonds
United States32 Posts
On September 05 2012 09:23 Savi[wOk] wrote: [/spoiler]9 Supply 11 Barracks "try to make a marine after building a factory" 12 Refinery 15 Supply "take 2 scvs off gas when you aquire 100 gas" 16 Factory "when the factory is 65% done, add 2 scvs back to gas 21 CC *Research Siege mode and make an ebay after your command center. you don't need to add scvs back on gas until the factory is 100% and you start your machine shop | ||
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NeVeR
1352 Posts
On September 05 2012 09:23 Savi[wOk] wrote: Coming soon How to deal with Reaver Expect to write a novel. Literally. + Show Spoiler + reavers imba | ||
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puppykiller
United States3128 Posts
On October 26 2012 06:17 NeVeR wrote: Expect to write a novel. Literally. + Show Spoiler + reavers imba The reaver is a unit that the protoss makes when they want to have to try. | ||
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NeVeR
1352 Posts
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Dontkillme
Korea (South)806 Posts
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