When should you go carrier, and when should you go arbiter? I'm guessing this is also heavily map-dependent, but as a general rule, how do you choose between the two?

TameTheMan

United States71 Posts

January 07 2006 00:36 GMT

when u have alot of gates, and can afford to make carriers, go for it, when ur not too rich, and need assistance, go arb ^_^

TameTheMan

United States71 Posts

January 07 2006 00:37 GMT

that wasnt a very good answer, but whatever feels right basically

, it depends on how he's managing his money as well

miNi

Korea (South)2010 Posts

January 07 2006 00:43 GMT

i think that was well said

Myrmidon

United States9452 Posts

January 07 2006 01:02 GMT

Do some thinking about the game you're playing and decide which fits your goals going into lategame PvT. What do you want to be able to do with your new tech? Are there cliffs and places where no land units can walk throughout the map, especially near expos? Is the map open? How many minerals can you afford to not have now (how much can you invest with no current returns for a long while) in case you get pushed immediately while switching? How many upgrades does the terran have for armor (remember, if they 2-2 fast, they have 2 + 1 innate armor vs. your 6 damage interceptors, which will be very weak)? How much is a ground army worth on the map, where are your expos placed (close together, scattered), and how many upgrades are you committing to on ground?

Actually, I don't really get it either.

(edit: add things)

stambe

Bulgaria498 Posts

January 07 2006 01:03 GMT

When T have big ground army which you can't destroy with your first wave, or when youre not so ahead economicaly, arbiter tech is much wiser because you dont leave a "window" for the T to attack you and destroy your Nexuses, while you wait for carrs numbers to reach at least 6, because carriers with no ground support in open ground=suxx hard vs gols. IF you have more exposes than him and cant support good ground army go carriers. Basically never go carriers if the game is tied, because this gives the terran the advantage. Either used them as last resort move to bring you back into the game or when youre ahead. Arbiter mainly is used as i am concerned to cripple strong terran economy by recalling zlots/ht/dt or stalling his push by freezing tank clusters basically halving his army.

iamke55

United States2806 Posts

January 07 2006 01:07 GMT

I rarely ever win vs carriers in tvp, but beat arbiter users easily.

RaGe

Belgium9950 Posts

January 07 2006 01:13 GMT

highly map dependant..
you should prefer arbs though, if hes pushing like nada does. while carriers are better against slow push.

SuperJongMan

Jamaica11586 Posts

January 07 2006 01:25 GMT

Use both -_-;;
I usually start air tech after the first push in a turtley game, and in faster games, I generally start it as soon as I secure a 3rd gas and a standing army that is strong enough to at least stall. It depends on every game but going Air is a very intuition and feeling thing. It changes the game flow greatly and play style of the MU changes the moment Air is out.
I like 3 Carriers and Arbiter instead of 4 carriers before I show the carriers unless its a really slow game, then I'd just hide and mass em.
Carriers with first strike/cloak and scan delay makes micro and carrier harass godly.
It's really sick how nice this combo is in early late game.
U just gotta survive the early game on Goon Zeal shuttle only.
This is with no obs ups and like 3-4 obs.. don't lose em - -

ubergamer15

United States645 Posts

January 07 2006 01:28 GMT

#10

On January 07 2006 10:25 SuperJongMan wrote:
Use both -_-;;
4 Carriers and Arbiter instead of 6 carriers.
Carriers with first strike/cloak and scan delay makes micro and carrier harass godly.
It's really sick how nice this combo is in early late game.
U just gotta survive the early game on Goon Zeal shuttle only.

This is obviously assuming you have copious amounts of gas. Money, I think, is the main determining factor: if you have a high mineral-to-vespene ratio, Carriers are the way to go. If you're better off in the gas department than you are with minerals, go for Arbiters.

SuperJongMan

Jamaica11586 Posts

January 07 2006 01:30 GMT

#11

I more or less specified above

Plexa

Aotearoa39261 Posts

January 07 2006 01:55 GMT

#12

hm id think if you had more gas/mins then go carrier, whereas if you were low min/gas then go arbs.
carriers are like 350/250? or sumthing like that where arbs are lik 100/350 (i think lol), your probably only going to build 1-3 arbs unless u 2gate and thenyoull probably aim for 5ish, 3arbs add to 300/1050, whereas carriers you need atleast 6 to start dealing damage, which is roughly 2100mins and 1500gas(?) and probably wanting to pump off 3gate, which means you need around 750 upfront whereas arb only needs 350. So imo you need both good min/gas for carriers, whereas arbs you only need gas

Terross

United States878 Posts

January 07 2006 02:19 GMT

#13

only go carriers if you are way ahead. get arb tech soon after second expand and once u own his army then u are definitely safe to go carrier.

GeneralCash

Croatia346 Posts

January 07 2006 02:41 GMT

#14

play like testie did vs advokate on r-point in gg.net's koth and go 4gate arbiters. that was soooo cool!!

CommanderCheng

China68 Posts

January 07 2006 02:47 GMT

#15

Stasis Field is like an instant kill. So 3-4 arbs with stasis field is a real bitch on the poor unsuspecting terran.

Bill307

Canada9103 Posts

January 07 2006 03:17 GMT

#16

Do not go carriers if your air upgrades lag behind his metal upgrades by more than 1/1. Go arbs instead and if you really want carriers, then start upgrading your air attack+armour but wait until you start to catch up to him in upgrades before you switch.

Worst of all is when people go carriers with 0/0/0 vs 3/3 goliaths and the carriers get raped -- after all, they're doing only 2 damage per shot, while the golies need only 17 shots rather than the usual 33 (0/0 vs 0/0/0) to kill them.

maareek

United States2042 Posts

January 07 2006 03:23 GMT

#17

Going carrier is really upgrade and timing dependent. I personally hate em. Arbs, however, I love. Theroeretically there's pretty much no time when going arb will lose you the game, whereas that's the case the majority of the time with carriers. Of course lots of arbs late game with ups is great, but one arb around the time of T's second push even without stasis or recall can be a huge boost.

Basically, in lategame if you are ahead of T by a decent margin you should go carrier. If you're way behind, you should go carrier. If you're even or marginally ahead/behind you should go arbiter. Just remember to upgrade your carriers, at least weapons. Unupgraded carrier v 3/3 gols is ugly, even with an army.

EntertainMe

864 Posts

January 07 2006 03:24 GMT

#18

One forge upgrades = Carriers
Two forge upgrades = Arbitors

Edit: Basically you should plan your strategy ahead of time before playing. You know... like terran's style or map and such...

QuietIdiot

7004 Posts

January 07 2006 03:49 GMT

#19

If your army is already relatively large like 165/200, better to imrpove the damage by adding in an arbiter for hit and run, very strong with a templar combination and abusive with it's statis ability.

I don't like using 5-7 carriers because I have to focus on their safety and watch out for goliaths, but carriers > arbiters in most situations. If I have a really strong eco, I would mass up like 11-12 carriers and take out units from over a cliff and gay it up.

SuperJongMan

Jamaica11586 Posts

January 07 2006 04:03 GMT

#20

Guys guys, Trust me on this one, Toss in an arbiter and you can cut armor upgrades if you plan to use Carriers for Harasss only. Terran won't know, you just go 2 star.
Plus, it forces either Golis which really helps fighting with an arbiter powered land army.
Research can follow later when your econ has recovered from the carrier/arbiter + the gateway production needed. Initial harass with cloaked carriers if unseen is always like.. WTF for the terran.
Totally eats his time.
... Well that's cuz I don't like Land v Land cuz I find macroing anything from 7+ gates annoying and hard.
PvT so I try to go sorta fast carriers and arbiters. Innate timing sense and less APM needed + ez(er) to use units. Ya agree jah?
Just don't lose a macro fight til then.