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oops wrong forum, admin change to strategy pls!
ok, whenever I play tvz and z goes swarm I get COMPLETLY SLAUGHTERED, seriously, game is going fine, all is good for me, then z pops up with swarm and its gg. I desperatly need some help vs swarm, like, any help at all, anything at all seriously, I completly suck vs swarm and more zergs are using it now than ever before
here is the game situation :map is luna, Im at 7 he is at 5, I have expo, and have successfully defended my expo from a group of about 8 lurks and some lings , I then send 2 dropships out to kill his expo at 2oclock which is very successfull.
I have macroed my way up to about 2 groups of mnm 3 tanks and a vessel@at expo(no irradiate yet), all of a sudden he attacks my expo with a few lurks + lings and swarm... and basically I lose because of swarm.... HELP PLS !!!!
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there's different ways of dealing with swarm
some terrans get spider mines, some mix in firebats with their marines (depending on how many lings they have) but generally, once they swarm you, you're going to have to move all of your stuff back ASAP out of the cloud of death and then seige your tanks when they are at a safe distance
you should usually target the defilers with your science vessels so that he won't keep consuming and swarming
maybe you lost because you didn't have the right units/spells, or maybe it was because of your micro
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United Kingdom2674 Posts
Moving to strategy forum...
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Irradiate those defilers as fast and often as you can using scan to locate them.
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Is it a viable strategy to upgrade EMP to drain defilers of energy in key moments? I was watching the clinique replay and it seems to me that it's hard for swarm to be very effective unless the zerg can continually drop swarm as he pushes against the terran group. An EMP would severely limit the zerg's ability to drop multiple swarms.
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United States37500 Posts
Unless for some reason Zerg has all his defilers together for you to emp, irridiate > emp all the way. Why drain mana when you can just kill it? Not to mention emp's slower casting rate compared to irridiate and the fairly small radius.
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EMP uses more energy, has a slower casting rate than irradiate, is an additional upgrade which you wouldn't have to research, and defilers have consume
oh and also irradiate kills the defiler 
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i dunno if this is viable but..
there was this game that I played were Z was destroying my containment with swarm lurk lings. I had 3 vessels but for some reason forgot to upgrade irradiate. he was pushing hard and pushing fast so what do I do? I made bats lotsa lotsa bats from my 4 rax when he reached my mineral expo I had 12 bats he swarmed my expo then pushed lurk/ling but 12 bats (6 with D-matrix) 1 med(sole survivor of the containment) owned it all..
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usually there are some ultras in the fray as well
bats can work i guess
the best thing to do is probably just to avoid fighting in swarm, irradiating defilers when at all possible. also, spider mines work surpringly well
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yeah it really depends what kind of units the player has under the swarm for a proper response...
just keep your vessels alive and hit those defilers like the others have said...
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i hate swarm with a passion ><
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it was completly horrible.... i couldnt really micro due to lack of space and he kept making more and more damn swarms forcing me to go up my ramp, and then he just made a swarm there and basicaly all i could do was abandon my position and load the very few marines into dropships and try to win from there, which was just not possible
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
the tradeoff with swarm is its incredibly micro intensive.
a. irrad defilers whenever you see them they become #1 priority.
b. tanks, siege tanks and advance rines ahead, when they swarm at you retreat into tank range and smash the zerg.
c. wraith switch is strong since 90% z's do ling/lurk with defilers making expos and even offensive units vulnerable (this takes advance scouting) and strong economy.
d. run rines into the swarm, this can block them from getting in and kill most of the units before they get to safety.
e. bats, not really great except in small force encounters so dont depend on it.
general note: dont get caught in your base if avoidable. Swarm is a "rape" tactic as i see it, they force you to take it right up the ass by shoving shit in your face via swarm. If you can do the early siege / rine retreat you are in good shape. Also make them work, use drops / irrad and micro a lot, the z has to work his ass off to do well with swarm.
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You need room to fight - if you are in your base and he dark swarms you, you have no hope. The only way to win the game vs defiler is by being constantly aggressive and giving yourself room to move back. If he has to use defiler and dark swarm defensively, you have the advantage, and you can win the war of attrition through constant irradiation and etc. Hence why you should go 2 port vessel vs defiler instead of something like 2fac tank as tanks are ultimately useless in this scenario.
He may also switch to guardians or other hive tech, which also requires vessel (which is good vs all hive builds).
The key mistake that terran makes vs defiler is being too passive - if the zerg has to chase your army, they can't dark swarm nearly as well as when they are storming your natural with lurkerling defiler and you have nowhere to run.
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To OP: you don't even have irradiate yet? How do you expect to win vs any hive? He could have very well just went guardians and you would still lose. Scout better - scout his lair to know when he switches to hive - if he goes 3 base hive then simply add another starport - stop all tank production and just get out vessels.
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On November 15 2005 22:32 greatmeh wrote:
i hate swarm with a passion ><
and likewise, i hate irradiate with a passion, so there goes your answer =P.
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I think you will need a huge cloud of vessels hovering menacingly over the battlefield, irradiating everything in sight :p
Vesselx100=pwnage 
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I think that you must not let zerg have the time to tech so fast to defilers.
Lair-Queens nest-hive-defiler mound-(consume)-defilers. You must have macroed so much that you can get out of you base much earlier. Why not at the same time the expoes is being killed ?
You dont have to kill his main (probably you cant)....just contain and and slow the swarms.
There is nothing I hate more then T just runs of of svarms and you have to eat some lings agian.
But when you get out on open gruond. Then its T time to conquer the battlefield (....huh ?)
1. Sexy thing is to try to time when Z is getting to offensive and lays a swarm kina long away from his troups, is to run under and out from it on the other side and block the units that is trying to get ine the swarm. That is annoying as hell.T kills tons of can kills tons off lurkers if he does right.
Upg is kinda important too.
IMO
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
so far id just take my post for granted O_O
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it's not so easy to stop the Z from getting defilers early as someone said. once there has been some mix up early in the game and the first mm force has been killed and then the T opts for expansion, it's not hard for the z to tech to defilers.
what the T has to do is to get alert of the passive play by the zerg, scan well and once he sees hive and knows the zerg doesn't have mutas, play with 2 port vessels irra. (even if there are mutas you need the second port and probably get a few wraiths to get prepared for guard), tanks from 1 fax and constant pumping of mm force (it's important to not forget the rine grades. if you can afford it from 2 bays. grades are important in case the swarm fight goes on for a lot of time and he can get ultras where rine HAVE to be upgraded as much as possible).
what you need from there on is extensive micro and quick responses, since you have to move your ass away once you see the swarm and try to irradiate as many defilers as possible and as soon as possible. beware of scourges though, it's only good to trade a vessel for irradiating a defiler if he's close to your base. to prevent him from getting a free way into your base with ling/lurk you must avoid as much as you can camping inside your base until you gather a large army. even with a smaller one, move ahead with your mm and try to engage his troops away from your base. force him to spend his swarms there, and not near your cc and irradiate the sneaky fucker. move away of the swarm, siege your tanks (remember that splash dmg can still kill stuf under the swarm. if he makes the mistake to leave unburrowed stuff under the swarm your tanks can kill them AND the burrowed ones who receive the splash) and wait, while scanning to see if any defilers approach to cast another swarm and move ahead with your vessels to irra it. be quick with your responses and don't forget macro!
it's generally hard to defend vs a good zerg which plays swarm nicely. the tricky part for both the zerg and the terran in this scenario is that both of the players have to micro as effectively as they can AND macro so they won't run out of units. but I would place the zergs in a worse position that the Terrans in the swarm play. It's more demading for them. They have to be almost flawless and 100% to execute it effectively.
that's it. I hope I helped
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EPT
