[Q] 3 hatch hydra -> 5 hatch build?

On October 20 2011 15:04 gu-val wrote:
Number of hydras is game- and map-dependant. When I was using 3h gas-hydra opening, I used to make enough hydras to snipe gateway/forge without getting killed by zealots, usually 4-5 hydras with 4-6 lings. This will force P to make more cannons in natural, but will also delay your own tech quite a lot. You cant kill the natural this way, unless P went greedy way and built only 1 cannon in bad position which was sniped easily so the push might seem pointless. I wont build more hydras because it looks like an all-in to me, and I dont like low eco games after all

I would also opt for lurker upgrade instead of spire at this moment of the game, you wont have many mutalisks due to low eco start while 1-2 lurks would work fine for you vs citadel first builds (even possible to deny P's third).

I'm not going 3h hydra push now unless P went something really idiotic so I'm gonna end the game right there. 5h before gas fits my game style pretty well, it is rather weak vs non-stargate first openings however.

On October 21 2011 19:55 KwarK wrote:

This is wrong. If you build enough hydralisks to pressure then you will have insufficient drones to utilise the 5 hatch. This build is a completely defensive opening.

It's normally overpool expansion gas expansion lair suicide overlord then hydra den in sim city placement, 6 or so hydra for corsair denial with spire and two more hatch + evo chamber + sunkens (game dependent) in sim city placement. The objective is to get a very strong three base (and ideally three gas) economy while remaining safe from corsair/speedlot/dt etc plays with overlord speed, a few hydralisks and a sim city with sunkens (varies dependent on what you scout).

From then on you react. Your early game should consist only of 6 lings and by lair you should have augmented those with 6 or so hydras but the rest is drones. It's an economy play to set you up for the midgame.

However it's also pretty out of date, it was popularised about two years ago now. What we saw in the most recent seasons was slower overlord speed, air control contested by scourge only the third hatchery going at a natural of a main site with a sixth hatchery quickly placed in the main. This variant relies rather more on the sim city, often teching to lurkers and adding spores rather than using 5 hatch hydra production with scourge and speed overlords but can transition straight into a 4 gas late game rush.

On October 21 2011 23:08 Mortality wrote:


If you look at the ling and hydra count he is suggesting it is actually less than what you suggested. But he seems to think he should be using only 4 or 5 hydras offensively...? The amount of time it will take 5 hydras to take down 1 gate is ridiculous, and even though the presence of the hydras might force him to panic into over-committing on defense (assuming you managed to snipe his scouting probe, otherwise all I can say is "woops?"), if he's going for any kind of standard opening he'll have that corsair scouting you out in no time and he'll realize that you've stopped making hydras and he'll start harassing OL.

I think this could be used effectively at low ranks where players will panic under the pressure, but I'd be surprised if his strategy could be used at higher levels...

Five hatch before gas is always awful, anyone anywhere can simply kill that upon scouting with range dragoons and micro. You cannot get significant numbers of hydralisks and certainly not with upgrades before he can get a half dozen dragoons and it will always get scouted. He won't lose a single dragoon early because dragoon micro is really, really easy and you'll never be able to get the units needed to stop him.

On October 25 2011 15:45 Iplaythings wrote:

Wait up a second, and explain something to me.
This build is famously called "fake" 3 hatch hydra, and the number of hydras and lings he listed are completely standard compared to what the professionals have been using.. The build makes you take down the simcity gateway and forge (preventing super early +1 timings), force some extra cannons because if he doesn't you just go fucking kill him, no biggie.
But when the toss reacts as suspected and throws down 2--4 more cannons (depends wether he went 1 or 2 cannons from the start or not) the zerg happily returns to a standard 5hatch macro build with an eco advantage while being behind in tech.

That's how the build has worked out since allways, going 3hatch hydra defensively sounds like something you would do against 1 base tech. Doing it vs forge FE and not getting enough hydras to force extra cannons is.. completely screwing with the logic of the build?
Have I misunderstood something kwark, cus if you're talking about the same build as I am then you sure as hell have got the wrong idea

[Q] 3 hatch hydra -> 5 hatch build?

The OP was asking for the 3 hatch lair into 5 hatch build