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! [G] PvT guidelines

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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BigBalls
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States5354 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-10-18 18:54:22
April 17 2005 09:16 GMT
#1
I had written this up a while ago, it was in a thread but the new search function is hard to use so I figured id just repost it.



Early game build:
8 pylon, 10 gate, 12 assim, 14 core, 15 pylon.

When your assim finishes, put 3 on gas, then make your 17th probe the 4th on gas.

Goon as soon as core finishes, then robo when gas/money come in.
Then make a zeal. This allows you to have 50 extra vespene.

Now, iirc, go pylon, range, goon. (Note: This build can be adapted to a reaver build. Neglect range, make a 2nd zeal after your 2nd goon, get shuttle/reaver afterwards). Your robo should finish soon after, make observatory, 2nd gate, then obs.

You want to make 2 obs right away while pumping goons from each gate. As a precautionary measure, i like to sometimes queue a shuttle after my 2nd obs, and I will cancel it if it becomes unnecessary based on his build. Send your first obs to the terran and your 2nd to your choke/ledge. Remember to rally your units to ramp and block it so vults cant get up.

Some other things to remember. Put a probe outside his choke/expo area to see if he leaves his ramp. Also put a probe by your expo -- the reasoning behind this is if you see him going fac cc, you can make a nexus at least 15-20 seconds faster.

the forking begins when you get your obs to his base...

There are 3 main builds you will see, with variations of each.
1. fact cc -- first cancel your queued shuttle, then as stated earlier, make a nexus right away at your natural (cancel building goons if necessary), then depending on positions, make another nexus to have 2 expos. if you do a 2 expo build, get 5 gate + citadel asap, cut probe production with even probe distribution among your bases, and power hard. If you do a 1 expo build, just power really hard and keep up constant probe production. Try to get dt a little faster also, dt in a shuttle FUCK fac cc pushes up hardcore.

2. fact port -- you want to put 3-4 goons by your minerals, get a shuttle right after your 2nd obs, make a few zeals, and expo after you have enough units to keep your ledge/main protected. [edit: I forgot to mention this....everyone has succumb at one point or another to mass turret on his cliff. This is the very reason why you need the shuttle queued right away. If you see your opponent doing it, hold it off as long as possible with your range goon+obs from below till your shuttle finishes. Make a 2nd shuttle if absolutely necessary] Then proceed with normal pvt, explained later.

3. dual fact -- There are a bunch of variations of this:
3a. gundam -- This is usually signified by 2 fact, 1 machine shop, a few tanks, a few vults and a decent amount of marines. You want to keep your shuttle (meaning dont cancel it), start throwing zeals into your unit production, and add a 3rd gate when money allows. Try to slow his push with your hopefully range upgraded goons while powering and setting up to break his early push.
A few keys -- DO NOT ATTACK THIS TOO EARLY. It is better to build up and let him expo and absolutely demolish his push while taking few losses and expanding later than to barely keep an expo alive while losing almost all of your forces.
Also, try to get in a few zealot bombs while his containment (yes, you might get contained) doesnt have turrets mixed in.

3b. vult rush into expo -- You will probably see 1 tank, 2 machine shops, both upgrading, and about 3-4 vults getting ready to fly across the battlefield. Just keep producing goons from your gates, and throw up an expo a little bit earlier (he cant kill it, just harass it). Dont forget to cancel your shuttle, you wont need it! Make a 3rd obs and dispatch any mines around your choke he leaves. When you have about 8+ goons, take a force of 4 goons+obs out and take out all mines you can find on the map. Proceed with normal pvt.

3c. 2 fact tank -- You will see 2 machine shops, 1 upgrading, 3-4 tanks, probably an ebay and maybe a few marines. You need to start producing zeals, and dont cancel your shuttle. Throw up a 3rd gate if you think his push will be enough to do damage. If he starts making turrets all over his main, expand instead of making a 3rd gate.


Ok, now that the opening game is out of the way (hopefully), lets work on the mid game.
Some keys to pvt that most people neglect:

1) great obs spread. You need 1 obs patrolling bases you wont scout, 1 obs checking out the closest island to the terran, 1 obs by the terrans choke, 1 obs on your ledge, 1 obs in a place where dropships would probably leave their base, and 1 obs patrolling the map with a group of goons to get rid of mines. Yes, you need a lot of obs.

2) most toss players put zeals in their shuttles. put dts instead. if you place them well, one scan wont protect them from the cloaked fiends. it is also much more helpful for ledge drop defense.

3) storm sucks. if you are playing a good terran, the only use for storm is on drops, and im far too slow to get everything i need done while harassing their minerals. i also dont like having my shuttles away from home in case they decide to drop

4) ledge defense was mentioned earlier. when you have a decent sized army, put 2 goons and 1 zeal on your ledge. this acts as a sort of buffer till you can get more units up there.

5) I mentioned earlier to have goon/obs dispatching mines all over the map. this serves 2 purposes. a) when the terran leaves his main, you want to be able to set up your flank in peace, not worrying about losing your units to well placed mines, and b) you dont want to have the nuisance of not being able to build a nexus because of a stupid mine.

6) You need to expo, but not too much. Be smart about it. Generally you can take your 2nd expo early and you want to macro a while off of 3 base before you take your 4th base.

7) You want to get arbiters. dont rush to them, but dont neglect them either. you\'ve seen their uses, stasis is great for stopping pushes and recall is great for finishing terrans/distracting them late game.



Some comments on the end game:
Often times terran has a stronghold on a certain section of the map. (For example, you are 9:00 on temple, and your opponent is 12:00. he uses both walls to take over the entire top/right side)The key is not attacking this straight out. Freak related it to a fight for the center of a chessboard. You dont actually engage in combat, but you dance around it and pick off mistakes that your opponent mistakes.

when you can, recall into your opponents main or expo. he will be forced to bring units back to save it. If he doesnt, he loses, just macro hard and defend with stasis/constant production. At this point in the game, you should really have at least 10 gates. When he brings stuff home to save his main, either hit an expo with units or hit his front because his stronghold has been relaxed.

when the terran\'s army is in disarray, you have to take full advantage of your lead. Stop any expansion attempts, expand yourself, macro hard, remember to keep producing arbiters. you can slack a little bit on the obs control at this point -- he should be integrating gols into his army to deal with your arbs so his vult force will be weak.

if you follow these basic guidelines end game, then you should come away with a victory in an equal expo, similar army size game.
if you guys could use google and post direct links to the maphacks here it would be greatly appreciated. - Nazgul
Knickknack
Profile Joined February 2004
United States1187 Posts
April 17 2005 09:51 GMT
#2



Is it really worth it to put 4on gas. On Nos when gas is horizontal, I believe it is. But im not sure for LT. You could always just put 3 on gas and make goons and just wait a bit for the gas to collect to make obs. I'm doubtful that the zeal is worth it instead of another goon early game. Just want to get your experiences on this.

Hum, you say storm sucks and prefer dts. Storm can be good for drops and if his stuff is clumped up. Its pretty versatile. I dunno, mabey its just about player preference.


Bring back the pvz one!
| www.ArtofProtoss.vze.com |
BigBalls
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States5354 Posts
April 17 2005 10:07 GMT
#3
yes its worth it, you mine 200/184, or about 8% faster, it adds up eventually.

the zeal is also worth it, you are short on gas if you build a goon instead of a zeal and short on units if you forgo building anything.

The temps thing is a player preference, I would rather have faster arbiters than storm. Storm is pretty good for stopping tornado pushes and once again storm drops, but i choose to do otherwise. sure you can do it if you like.

the pvz one is listed in the recommended strategy threads
if you guys could use google and post direct links to the maphacks here it would be greatly appreciated. - Nazgul
SChasu
Profile Joined October 2003
United States1505 Posts
April 17 2005 11:10 GMT
#4
thank you balls of great size
totalbiscuit is awful at casting.
wishterran
Profile Joined February 2004
United States1045 Posts
April 17 2005 11:12 GMT
#5
nice read, this should go in the list of recommended threads
Oxygen
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
Canada3581 Posts
April 17 2005 11:19 GMT
#6
Yeah, hail the balls

Dont drink and derive. TSL: Made with Balls.
Locked
Profile Joined September 2004
United States4182 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-04-17 11:53:44
April 17 2005 11:50 GMT
#7
i remember that post/thread.....

thx a lot for making it, its helped my PvT out a _lot_ since i first saw it

(i use it on LT)

and i tend to go for slowly building carriers instead of arbs because at my level noone i've found can stand up to ~6 unscouted carriers and if i ever hit 12 along with good obs/sair support not even mass wraiths can kill them (and use cliffs to gay up gols)
UMS map pack http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=50442
Refrain[FriZ]
Profile Joined June 2003
Canada4337 Posts
April 17 2005 12:21 GMT
#8
ALL HAIL YOUR COMEBACK

btw did you watch Sin City yet?
BigBalls
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States5354 Posts
April 17 2005 12:30 GMT
#9
no no i havent

i went home this weekend i should have went, i saw a titty scene on some site, the girl has a smokin body

im not really back yet, i havent played a game since thanksgiving and i wont until mid may or so. then ill be back!
if you guys could use google and post direct links to the maphacks here it would be greatly appreciated. - Nazgul
Taiche *
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
France1963 Posts
April 17 2005 17:47 GMT
#10
Another BigBalls' guide ! Thanks a lot, clarified a few things for me
Manifesto7 Uses ReXplorer, and so should you! : http://repasm.net/rx/
Allko
Profile Joined February 2004
China297 Posts
April 17 2005 19:59 GMT
#11
wa haha so wonderful guide
thank u very much.
Stop Playing God
pooper-scooper
Profile Joined May 2003
United States3108 Posts
April 17 2005 20:05 GMT
#12
On April 17 2005 20:50 Locked wrote:
i remember that post/thread.....

thx a lot for making it, its helped my PvT out a _lot_ since i first saw it

(i use it on LT)

and i tend to go for slowly building carriers instead of arbs because at my level noone i've found can stand up to ~6 unscouted carriers and if i ever hit 12 along with good obs/sair support not even mass wraiths can kill them (and use cliffs to gay up gols)



Hrmm... I almost always die trying to go carriers at my level
Good...Bad... Im the guy with the gun
Carnac
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
Germany / USA16648 Posts
April 17 2005 20:32 GMT
#13
this will probably help me, since pvt is somehow my weakness, while i am pretty confident in pvz/pvp, because i can apply a lot more pressure. the often really passive play of pvt does not suit me ;>

thanks
ModeratorHi! I'm a .signature *virus*! Copy me into your ~/.signature to help me spread!
rpf289
Profile Joined October 2004
United States3524 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-04-17 23:58:56
April 17 2005 23:58 GMT
#14
I never did like fast obs ;o If anyone is interested in another build (the build I use, and it's similar to a build I've seen Rek do a few times), it is here. I showed it to Leg, and he liked it. By the way, I'm not saying this is better than BigBalls's build, I'm just presenting another build that I find works out very well in almost all scenarios. Anyways, BigBalls: Thanks for such a detailed report on your build, it makes it a lot easier to understand how to react when you see the Terran doing something specific like you listed. I used to just respond the same to everything, and then I read this on WGT and it made things a lot more understandable.
sundance
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
Slovakia3201 Posts
April 18 2005 00:03 GMT
#15
Very very nice <3
Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds
neSix
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
United States1772 Posts
April 18 2005 09:44 GMT
#16
CTRL+D
Allko
Profile Joined February 2004
China297 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-04-18 11:09:31
April 18 2005 11:09 GMT
#17
Now, iirc, go pylon, range, goon.

who can tell me what does IIRC stand by?
thx
Stop Playing God
rpf289
Profile Joined October 2004
United States3524 Posts
April 18 2005 11:21 GMT
#18
If I remember correctly.
Allko
Profile Joined February 2004
China297 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-04-18 16:33:28
April 18 2005 11:40 GMT
#19
hehe i see.
there are so many words(as for short ones in these threads) i can not understand probably.
they puzzle me to follow author's guide quite a bit... -0-
for example : wtf=??
edited:
another one: pushing=?? can u explain it id details. is it a rush?
thx

Stop Playing God
Yarertz
Profile Joined February 2003
Djibouti1891 Posts
April 18 2005 12:31 GMT
#20
WHAT THE FUCK :D
StarCraft : 26.IX.2001 - 8.XII.2004 (1167 days) R.I.P [`]
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