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Russian Federation121 Posts
On March 24 2020 10:57 Liquid`Drone wrote:
way I see it pvr has three different, about equally viable options, and a fourth that I myself greatly prefer facing.
1: 9 gate outside natural, pvz gateway expand style. This is ideal pvz, fine pvt (you don't expand but are aggressive with zealots, play pretty normally from there), pretty ass pvp.
2: 10 12 gate in main. This is totally fine pvp, not ideal, but absolutely playable in both pvt and pvz.
3: 1 gate gas in main. This is obviously fine pvt, fine pvp, and difficult, but as long as you know how to follow up, quite alright in pvz too.
If it's rvr where you get protoss, option 1 is the best of these (in rvr, likelihood of mirror matches decreases by a whole lot, chance of opponent being p is something like 1/27 if you got p yourself), if it's picked p vs p I think option 2 or 3 are the best.
Proxy 2 gate is worse than all of these, but if you are particularly attached to your preferred openings and you just don't want to play a pvz game where you don't get to forge fe, I guess it's a viable option.
If he zerg and you go viable option #2 how to transition?
Good health.
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On March 25 2020 14:28 MisterBoba wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2020 10:57 Liquid`Drone wrote:
way I see it pvr has three different, about equally viable options, and a fourth that I myself greatly prefer facing.
1: 9 gate outside natural, pvz gateway expand style. This is ideal pvz, fine pvt (you don't expand but are aggressive with zealots, play pretty normally from there), pretty ass pvp.
2: 10 12 gate in main. This is totally fine pvp, not ideal, but absolutely playable in both pvt and pvz.
3: 1 gate gas in main. This is obviously fine pvt, fine pvp, and difficult, but as long as you know how to follow up, quite alright in pvz too.
If it's rvr where you get protoss, option 1 is the best of these (in rvr, likelihood of mirror matches decreases by a whole lot, chance of opponent being p is something like 1/27 if you got p yourself), if it's picked p vs p I think option 2 or 3 are the best.
Proxy 2 gate is worse than all of these, but if you are particularly attached to your preferred openings and you just don't want to play a pvz game where you don't get to forge fe, I guess it's a viable option. If he zerg and you go viable option #2 how to transition? Good health.
Gasless expo. Watch Bonyth PvZ, he likes to open 10 12 gate a lot.
Problem w/ that b.o is it's very weak vs T, goons and range are extremely delayed so you usually just die to an FD (even worse if T walls).
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Russian Federation121 Posts
On March 25 2020 14:35 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2020 14:28 MisterBoba wrote:On March 24 2020 10:57 Liquid`Drone wrote:
way I see it pvr has three different, about equally viable options, and a fourth that I myself greatly prefer facing.
1: 9 gate outside natural, pvz gateway expand style. This is ideal pvz, fine pvt (you don't expand but are aggressive with zealots, play pretty normally from there), pretty ass pvp.
2: 10 12 gate in main. This is totally fine pvp, not ideal, but absolutely playable in both pvt and pvz.
3: 1 gate gas in main. This is obviously fine pvt, fine pvp, and difficult, but as long as you know how to follow up, quite alright in pvz too.
If it's rvr where you get protoss, option 1 is the best of these (in rvr, likelihood of mirror matches decreases by a whole lot, chance of opponent being p is something like 1/27 if you got p yourself), if it's picked p vs p I think option 2 or 3 are the best.
Proxy 2 gate is worse than all of these, but if you are particularly attached to your preferred openings and you just don't want to play a pvz game where you don't get to forge fe, I guess it's a viable option. If he zerg and you go viable option #2 how to transition? Good health. Gasless expo. Watch Bonyth PvZ, he likes to open 10 12 gate a lot. Problem w/ that b.o is it's very weak vs T, goons and range are extremely delayed so you usually just die to an FD (even worse if T walls).
Expo with no wall? How do survive if he go all-in with mass ling or hydra?
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On March 25 2020 14:59 MisterBoba wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2020 14:35 TT1 wrote:On March 25 2020 14:28 MisterBoba wrote:On March 24 2020 10:57 Liquid`Drone wrote:
way I see it pvr has three different, about equally viable options, and a fourth that I myself greatly prefer facing.
1: 9 gate outside natural, pvz gateway expand style. This is ideal pvz, fine pvt (you don't expand but are aggressive with zealots, play pretty normally from there), pretty ass pvp.
2: 10 12 gate in main. This is totally fine pvp, not ideal, but absolutely playable in both pvt and pvz.
3: 1 gate gas in main. This is obviously fine pvt, fine pvp, and difficult, but as long as you know how to follow up, quite alright in pvz too.
If it's rvr where you get protoss, option 1 is the best of these (in rvr, likelihood of mirror matches decreases by a whole lot, chance of opponent being p is something like 1/27 if you got p yourself), if it's picked p vs p I think option 2 or 3 are the best.
Proxy 2 gate is worse than all of these, but if you are particularly attached to your preferred openings and you just don't want to play a pvz game where you don't get to forge fe, I guess it's a viable option. If he zerg and you go viable option #2 how to transition? Good health. Gasless expo. Watch Bonyth PvZ, he likes to open 10 12 gate a lot. Problem w/ that b.o is it's very weak vs T, goons and range are extremely delayed so you usually just die to an FD (even worse if T walls). Expo with no wall? How do survive if he go all-in with mass ling or hydra?
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/567199439?t=0h7m39s
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Russian Federation121 Posts
On March 25 2020 17:02 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2020 14:59 MisterBoba wrote:On March 25 2020 14:35 TT1 wrote:On March 25 2020 14:28 MisterBoba wrote:On March 24 2020 10:57 Liquid`Drone wrote:
way I see it pvr has three different, about equally viable options, and a fourth that I myself greatly prefer facing.
1: 9 gate outside natural, pvz gateway expand style. This is ideal pvz, fine pvt (you don't expand but are aggressive with zealots, play pretty normally from there), pretty ass pvp.
2: 10 12 gate in main. This is totally fine pvp, not ideal, but absolutely playable in both pvt and pvz.
3: 1 gate gas in main. This is obviously fine pvt, fine pvp, and difficult, but as long as you know how to follow up, quite alright in pvz too.
If it's rvr where you get protoss, option 1 is the best of these (in rvr, likelihood of mirror matches decreases by a whole lot, chance of opponent being p is something like 1/27 if you got p yourself), if it's picked p vs p I think option 2 or 3 are the best.
Proxy 2 gate is worse than all of these, but if you are particularly attached to your preferred openings and you just don't want to play a pvz game where you don't get to forge fe, I guess it's a viable option. If he zerg and you go viable option #2 how to transition? Good health. Gasless expo. Watch Bonyth PvZ, he likes to open 10 12 gate a lot. Problem w/ that b.o is it's very weak vs T, goons and range are extremely delayed so you usually just die to an FD (even worse if T walls). Expo with no wall? How do survive if he go all-in with mass ling or hydra? https://www.twitch.tv/videos/567199439?t=0h7m39s
Thank you Poutine Man! Good video from Pieorgi Man! Good health both you.
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Norway28738 Posts
Myself I am a better zerg player than protoss player than terran player, so I fare a bit worse comparably against 2 gate openings with terran than I do against gas openings as zerg, even though these are probably equally disadvantageous. 
Jealous, it depends a bit on the map, but generally I feel 1 gate sair into dt expand is the most consistent build, while 1 gate reaver into reaver goon can be very good if executed well. The latter is a bit more dependent on catching your opponent off guard, as hard countering it is more of an option, whereas 1 gate sair into dt expand allows you to play a normal game with a slight disadvantage. (if forge fe or gateway expand are 50-50, I'd say 1 gate sair into dt expand is in the 45-55 / 40-60 territory. It's not ideal, but nothing you can't overcome if you are the better player. ) For me, I am a zerg main, so for me on ladder giving me a slight advantage ends up real good for me - my mmr tends to be lower than what my real zerg mmr is while it's higher than what my real terran mmr is.
1 gate templar expand is an option, too, more preferable if the choke is rather narrow so you can hold off zerglings with a lower number of zealots.
You can also do 1 gate reaver, have your robo get scouted by an overlord, cancel the robo and do a 1 base 5 gateway goon zealot attack (stop probes, no tech beyond core), clear out scouting ling with 2 zeal 6 goons, he thinks it's 2 zeal 6 goons with 2 reaver shuttle where it's actually like 15 goon 6 zealot instead, this will normally lead to his hydras being a bit out of position, maybe he makes a couple sunkens to protect mineral lines instead of choke etc. Can also be absolutely hard countered, but I've won games against korean semipros doing some version of that. (lost my hd and replays recently, sadly! )
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PvR just 9/9 gate proxy in the middle of the map 
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I prefer 1 gate gas in main because it transitions well to stove, which is strong in all matchups.
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Russian Federation121 Posts
On March 28 2020 04:21 Chef wrote:
I prefer 1 gate gas in main because it transitions well to stove, which is strong in all matchups.
You really serious now? I will try.
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Is there a good Terran VS Terran all in build?
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On March 30 2020 06:23 XenOsky wrote:
Is there a good Terran VS Terran all in build?
8 rax / bbs is situational - only works very well vs Rax FE / CC 1st
2 fact build have to be selected properly based on your opponents play. Usually 2 fact vulture is the best, but other units compositions are great too if opponent doesnt go standard.
2 port wraith can be played in specific sutiations too.
I guess the most consistent "all in" would be to make 5 fact asap, tank/vult and try to break some initial possitions with SCVs. You can even skip the siege mode here as long as there are no more than 5-6 tanks.
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Not really an all-in but early double/triple/quadruple drop on opponent's main/production/depot-clusters can be very effective in TvT on many maps if you're looking for a quick game-ender chance. Or two-pronged into main and natural.
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There's a pretty fun all-in where you go 5 fact Goliath I believe. It was showcased today in CPL Week1 matches on my twitch
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Russian Federation121 Posts
On March 28 2020 04:21 Chef wrote:
I prefer 1 gate gas in main because it transitions well to stove, which is strong in all matchups.
Hey buddy? I try Stove from Liquipedia. I alway suspect it shit. I have not won a single PvR with it in fact! Maybe is poor execution from me? You have replay friend? I want to win with Stove, you make sound credible but is 0-5 in PvR with it. Good health stove.
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You can win with the stove, if you are a progamer and play vs a noob.
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On March 31 2020 20:27 MisterBoba wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2020 04:21 Chef wrote:
I prefer 1 gate gas in main because it transitions well to stove, which is strong in all matchups. Hey buddy? I try Stove from Liquipedia. I alway suspect it shit. I have not won a single PvR with it in fact! Maybe is poor execution from me? You have replay friend? I want to win with Stove, you make sound credible but is 0-5 in PvR with it. Good health stove.
F's in the chat for yet another victim of online trolling. RIP MisterBoba 3/31/20. Good health.
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Russian Federation121 Posts
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On April 01 2020 06:04 MisterBoba wrote:Jealous I am not entirely sure what you say but I think thank you and good health edit: Why is liquipedia entry about Stove if not viable?? edit: Guys are you certain? I find Chef guide https://tl.net/forum/bw-strategy/94911-guide-the-stove
Second step is confidence.
Clearly you do not have enough confidence in yourself, the build and the race.
Maybe stick to terran instead.
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Russian Federation121 Posts
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TLADT24920 Posts
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EPT
