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Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 380

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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funnybananaman
Profile Joined April 2009
United States830 Posts
March 30 2018 01:45 GMT
#7581
Scout speed is far more noticeable then scout sight when using scouts and microing them. Scouts can be very good in pvz if you can amass 11-12 of them for overlord and drone sniping. They don't do as much in pvt because of goliaths are pretty low in the terran tech tree. So if theres one scout upgrade to get i'd recommend getting that. They are under used because of their high cost, compared to the corsair, and no special abilities.
GunSlinger
Profile Joined June 2006
614 Posts
March 30 2018 04:10 GMT
#7582
On March 30 2018 10:45 funnybananaman wrote:
Scouts can be very good in pvz if you can amass 11-12 of them for overlord and drone sniping.


This made me lol.

The phrase "very good" should never be used to describe a Scout. Scouts get destroyed in PvZ... Eleven scouts will cost you 3025 minerals and 1375 gas total. When would you have those kinds of resources to build Scouts against Zerg dude, come on. Overlord and Drone sniping? That cracks me up. Seriously, that is funny.
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8921 Posts
March 30 2018 04:30 GMT
#7583
On March 30 2018 13:10 GunSlinger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2018 10:45 funnybananaman wrote:
Scouts can be very good in pvz if you can amass 11-12 of them for overlord and drone sniping.


This made me lol.

The phrase "very good" should never be used to describe a Scout. Scouts get destroyed in PvZ... Eleven scouts will cost you 3025 minerals and 1375 gas total. When would you have those kinds of resources to build Scouts against Zerg dude, come on. Overlord and Drone sniping? That cracks me up. Seriously, that is funny.


watch from 0:57 - 1:12
Sero
Profile Joined October 2010
United States692 Posts
March 30 2018 05:24 GMT
#7584
On March 30 2018 13:30 evilfatsh1t wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2018 13:10 GunSlinger wrote:
On March 30 2018 10:45 funnybananaman wrote:
Scouts can be very good in pvz if you can amass 11-12 of them for overlord and drone sniping.


This made me lol.

The phrase "very good" should never be used to describe a Scout. Scouts get destroyed in PvZ... Eleven scouts will cost you 3025 minerals and 1375 gas total. When would you have those kinds of resources to build Scouts against Zerg dude, come on. Overlord and Drone sniping? That cracks me up. Seriously, that is funny.

https://youtu.be/9ixTS63x0Kg
watch from 0:57 - 1:12

You can link a video of people nuke rushing too. Doesn’t mean it’s a good strategy.
<3 FlaSh HiyA Stats HoeJJa
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
March 30 2018 05:46 GMT
#7585
On March 30 2018 14:24 Sero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2018 13:30 evilfatsh1t wrote:
On March 30 2018 13:10 GunSlinger wrote:
On March 30 2018 10:45 funnybananaman wrote:
Scouts can be very good in pvz if you can amass 11-12 of them for overlord and drone sniping.


This made me lol.

The phrase "very good" should never be used to describe a Scout. Scouts get destroyed in PvZ... Eleven scouts will cost you 3025 minerals and 1375 gas total. When would you have those kinds of resources to build Scouts against Zerg dude, come on. Overlord and Drone sniping? That cracks me up. Seriously, that is funny.

https://youtu.be/9ixTS63x0Kg
watch from 0:57 - 1:12

You can link a video of people nuke rushing too. Doesn’t mean it’s a good strategy.


Isn't a good strategy one that wins?
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8921 Posts
March 30 2018 05:53 GMT
#7586
On March 30 2018 14:24 Sero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2018 13:30 evilfatsh1t wrote:
On March 30 2018 13:10 GunSlinger wrote:
On March 30 2018 10:45 funnybananaman wrote:
Scouts can be very good in pvz if you can amass 11-12 of them for overlord and drone sniping.


This made me lol.

The phrase "very good" should never be used to describe a Scout. Scouts get destroyed in PvZ... Eleven scouts will cost you 3025 minerals and 1375 gas total. When would you have those kinds of resources to build Scouts against Zerg dude, come on. Overlord and Drone sniping? That cracks me up. Seriously, that is funny.

https://youtu.be/9ixTS63x0Kg
watch from 0:57 - 1:12

You can link a video of people nuke rushing too. Doesn’t mean it’s a good strategy.

bananaman never said it was a good strategy. he said scouts can be good units if you get a good enough number.
video is proof that scouts are indeed good if you manage to be able to get a good number (not necessarily 11-12).
all you guys with your "anything not standard is shit" mentality need to get off your high horses
TheFoReveRwaR
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States10657 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-30 07:54:06
March 30 2018 07:38 GMT
#7587
Ok guys. It's time for a reality check. It isn't "anything not standard is shit". I'm glaring with a slight evil eye at the post above me. You sir, need to get off your imaginary delusion horse. It's more like this... the very best protoss players have played hundreds of games, and they have not used scouts hardly ever. Statistically essentially never. Why? Because they are terrible given their cost. They are not viable compared to other options against a comparable opponent. Sure you could crush some garbage players with them. However, no they are not good for hunting drones or overlords, because they will be killed. Do you think you are some how better than the very best korean protoss because you've discovered the secret power of the scout? No you haven't. Get real. Scouts are simply bad. Simple as that. Which is why you never see them. Thank you for reading. The top Protoss aren't even using them on Sparkle(an island map in case you haven't been watching) during this ASL.

Also if you post a video as an example and its a 3:3 on hunters...common. What are you thinking?
Being healthy, it has been said, really consists of having the same disease as everybody else.
TheFoReveRwaR
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States10657 Posts
March 30 2018 07:42 GMT
#7588
On March 30 2018 14:46 ninazerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2018 14:24 Sero wrote:
On March 30 2018 13:30 evilfatsh1t wrote:
On March 30 2018 13:10 GunSlinger wrote:
On March 30 2018 10:45 funnybananaman wrote:
Scouts can be very good in pvz if you can amass 11-12 of them for overlord and drone sniping.


This made me lol.

The phrase "very good" should never be used to describe a Scout. Scouts get destroyed in PvZ... Eleven scouts will cost you 3025 minerals and 1375 gas total. When would you have those kinds of resources to build Scouts against Zerg dude, come on. Overlord and Drone sniping? That cracks me up. Seriously, that is funny.

https://youtu.be/9ixTS63x0Kg
watch from 0:57 - 1:12

You can link a video of people nuke rushing too. Doesn’t mean it’s a good strategy.


Isn't a good strategy one that wins?

Not if it wins against someone bad. Then it doesn't matter what strategy you picked.
Being healthy, it has been said, really consists of having the same disease as everybody else.
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8921 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-30 09:49:20
March 30 2018 09:15 GMT
#7589
On March 30 2018 16:38 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:
Ok guys. It's time for a reality check. It isn't "anything not standard is shit". I'm glaring with a slight evil eye at the post above me. You sir, need to get off your imaginary delusion horse. It's more like this... the very best protoss players have played hundreds of games, and they have not used scouts hardly ever. Statistically essentially never. Why? Because they are terrible given their cost. They are not viable compared to other options against a comparable opponent. Sure you could crush some garbage players with them. However, no they are not good for hunting drones or overlords, because they will be killed. Do you think you are some how better than the very best korean protoss because you've discovered the secret power of the scout? No you haven't. Get real. Scouts are simply bad. Simple as that. Which is why you never see them. Thank you for reading. The top Protoss aren't even using them on Sparkle(an island map in case you haven't been watching) during this ASL.

Also if you post a video as an example and its a 3:3 on hunters...common. What are you thinking?

lol another guy whos completely missed the point of the op's post.
he never said it was a viable strategy. he simply said scouts are good in high enough numbers. terrans dont use battlecruisers in all of their games but no one would argue that battlecruisers are a bad unit. same shit with scouts.
theyre expensive and at the highest level not worth it. but if for some reason you can manage to get them without losing the game then you can enjoy utilising them for a variety of reasons.

the issue with guys on any gaming forum theory crafting about whats best and standard for use is that 90% of you guys wont get to the level to understand why whatever youre doing is standard. so why not just fuck around and actually enjoy the game than to pigeonhole yourself into builds and units that you dont understand anyway. its really too bad most of you cant understand what the pros say in their streams. if you could understand even 10% of it youd realise that the level of discussion that goes on in tl about how to play starcraft are so simplistic that itd simply discourage you. none of you understand the subtleties of all the builds and what makes them "standard" so might as well just enjoy the game and do your best.

oh and in the video i linked which shows the scouts, its 1v1. bisu showing scouts are fun to use and a nightmare to deal with if you can get some
ajmbek
Profile Joined November 2008
Italy460 Posts
March 30 2018 11:37 GMT
#7590
Back in 2008-2009 Nony got A+ on ICCUP playing all his PvT games with dt fe into 3 scauts into carriers
Sic iter ad astra
EndingLife
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States1605 Posts
March 30 2018 16:47 GMT
#7591
Apparently you guys haven't seen Bisu scouts. He uses 2 stargates but I like the 3 stargate, 9 +1 and speed scout timing.
Here is Bisu vs Fengzi with scouts.
GunSlinger
Profile Joined June 2006
614 Posts
March 30 2018 21:06 GMT
#7592
On March 30 2018 18:15 evilfatsh1t wrote:
lol another guy whos completely missed the point of the op's post.
he never said it was a viable strategy. he simply said scouts are good in high enough numbers. terrans dont use battlecruisers in all of their games but no one would argue that battlecruisers are a bad unit. same shit with scouts.
theyre expensive and at the highest level not worth it. but if for some reason you can manage to get them without losing the game then you can enjoy utilising them for a variety of reasons.

the issue with guys on any gaming forum theory crafting about whats best and standard for use is that 90% of you guys wont get to the level to understand why whatever youre doing is standard. so why not just fuck around and actually enjoy the game than to pigeonhole yourself into builds and units that you dont understand anyway. its really too bad most of you cant understand what the pros say in their streams. if you could understand even 10% of it youd realise that the level of discussion that goes on in tl about how to play starcraft are so simplistic that itd simply discourage you. none of you understand the subtleties of all the builds and what makes them "standard" so might as well just enjoy the game and do your best.

oh and in the video i linked which shows the scouts, its 1v1. bisu showing scouts are fun to use and a nightmare to deal with if you can get some


You are the only one with a lack of understanding, my friend. I have used Scouts in 1v1 games many times, over many years. They are a fucking garbage tier unit. Period. They are not a "nightmare to deal with", ever. The game is already over if that is the case. Where are your Hydras? Where are your Scourge? You didn't see your opponent starting to build Scouts and react? They take way too long to build for that to happen.

What the fuck are you even talking about buddy? Ranting about the "subtleties" of build orders and assuming people who post here cannot understand them? Give me a break. Your comment is just plain ignorant.

I haven't used a standard build in a 1v1 more than a dozen times over the past few years. I use my own builds, which I have meticulously tested and practiced. I have been playing this game for well over 15 years. So let me tell you something: You think you can post a link to a video, where Bisu is using Scouts to troll some poor soul and that somehow justifies your point that the unit is good when you get a lot of them? Pay close attention here, it doesn't.

I don't know what your issue is, but it has nothing to do with Scouts. Your Battlecruiser analogy is idiotic at best and perfectly illustrates your lack of understanding.

Sorry, but I cannot refrain from correcting a person this foolish and pompous.

User was warned for this post.
TaardadAiel
Profile Joined May 2017
Bulgaria750 Posts
March 30 2018 21:34 GMT
#7593
I really thought we could see Scouts on Sparkle alongside Corsair against muta/devourer when the devourer numbers are not big enough. It seems keeping zerg honest with intelligent sair/reaver usage is enough so you just have a gazillion sairs and the zerg armada is not that scary. However I'm not sure we've had enough games on the map to use as reference so far, even though the pros had to grind the map like mad.
WriterReV hwaiting!
EndingLife
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States1605 Posts
March 30 2018 23:11 GMT
#7594
I still think scouts should cost 200 minerals, 100 gas and come with speed by default.
They're pretty useless in most games, as they cost too much and take too long to build. The fleet beacon is too expensive and speed takes too long to finish, but if they were cheaper, I'd do a (9) +1 scout timing every single pvz game lol
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8921 Posts
March 31 2018 02:02 GMT
#7595
On March 31 2018 06:06 GunSlinger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2018 18:15 evilfatsh1t wrote:
lol another guy whos completely missed the point of the op's post.
he never said it was a viable strategy. he simply said scouts are good in high enough numbers. terrans dont use battlecruisers in all of their games but no one would argue that battlecruisers are a bad unit. same shit with scouts.
theyre expensive and at the highest level not worth it. but if for some reason you can manage to get them without losing the game then you can enjoy utilising them for a variety of reasons.

the issue with guys on any gaming forum theory crafting about whats best and standard for use is that 90% of you guys wont get to the level to understand why whatever youre doing is standard. so why not just fuck around and actually enjoy the game than to pigeonhole yourself into builds and units that you dont understand anyway. its really too bad most of you cant understand what the pros say in their streams. if you could understand even 10% of it youd realise that the level of discussion that goes on in tl about how to play starcraft are so simplistic that itd simply discourage you. none of you understand the subtleties of all the builds and what makes them "standard" so might as well just enjoy the game and do your best.

oh and in the video i linked which shows the scouts, its 1v1. bisu showing scouts are fun to use and a nightmare to deal with if you can get some


You are the only one with a lack of understanding, my friend. I have used Scouts in 1v1 games many times, over many years. They are a fucking garbage tier unit. Period. They are not a "nightmare to deal with", ever. The game is already over if that is the case. Where are your Hydras? Where are your Scourge? You didn't see your opponent starting to build Scouts and react? They take way too long to build for that to happen.

What the fuck are you even talking about buddy? Ranting about the "subtleties" of build orders and assuming people who post here cannot understand them? Give me a break. Your comment is just plain ignorant.

I haven't used a standard build in a 1v1 more than a dozen times over the past few years. I use my own builds, which I have meticulously tested and practiced. I have been playing this game for well over 15 years. So let me tell you something: You think you can post a link to a video, where Bisu is using Scouts to troll some poor soul and that somehow justifies your point that the unit is good when you get a lot of them? Pay close attention here, it doesn't.

I don't know what your issue is, but it has nothing to do with Scouts. Your Battlecruiser analogy is idiotic at best and perfectly illustrates your lack of understanding.

Sorry, but I cannot refrain from correcting a person this foolish and pompous.

you could have played starcraft for 100 yrs for all i care. the fact that you think using your own builds suddenly makes you a credible and good player makes me laugh lol. just cause units seem shit when you use it it doesnt mean they are. its just means youre bad and dont have the skills to make it work.
also if were talking actual strategy on how to deal with hydras and scourge. well you just dodge hydras since you can one shot overlords anyway and scourge you can patrol micro or just run back to base corsair style. if you want to play like zvt style mutas scouts are your closest unit. fun units to use they are, if you can afford them

User was temp banned for this post.
Alpha-NP-
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States1242 Posts
April 01 2018 04:57 GMT
#7596
How could someone like Hiya be better at TvP than say TvZ?
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10363 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-01 08:22:21
April 01 2018 08:16 GMT
#7597
On March 30 2018 13:10 GunSlinger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2018 10:45 funnybananaman wrote:
Scouts can be very good in pvz if you can amass 11-12 of them for overlord and drone sniping.


This made me lol.

The phrase "very good" should never be used to describe a Scout. Scouts get destroyed in PvZ... Eleven scouts will cost you 3025 minerals and 1375 gas total. When would you have those kinds of resources to build Scouts against Zerg dude, come on. Overlord and Drone sniping? That cracks me up. Seriously, that is funny.


To keep it 100, some of the people posting in this forum/thread are like 1000 MMR, such as OP here. His gaming experience is completely different from ours. I made an account and gave up free losses to get down to about 1300 or so and let me tell you, some of the things you encounter down there are absurd.

On April 01 2018 13:57 Alpha-NP- wrote:
How could someone like Hiya be better at TvP than say TvZ?

How can a person be better at x than say y?

How can a person be better at shitposting on forums than say trolling on Discord?

How can a person be better at reading than say doing math?

SIlly question. Just because match-ups "generally" favor one side, doesn't mean that people don't have personal understanding/taste/preference/style. Just read what Flash said in his recent interview about how every pro sees the game differently.
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
Alpha-NP-
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States1242 Posts
April 01 2018 14:02 GMT
#7598
From the perspective of someone that has almost never played 1v1, it struck me as fascinating that players can be better at a matchup even if that matchup is supposed to have their opponent statistically in balance. Like Movie being a PvZ master. It blew my mind.
WGT-Baal
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
France3531 Posts
April 02 2018 03:07 GMT
#7599
I honestly thought the whole scout discussion (or argument...) was for April s fools but it started March 30th so I dont know.

The videos were pretty entertaining though.
Horang2 fan
funnybananaman
Profile Joined April 2009
United States830 Posts
April 02 2018 05:46 GMT
#7600
it would be cool to see a patch where scouts were decreased in cost. roaches could be added in to sc:bw, dark archons could be given some new abilities, there is a lot of working ground that would make players happy around a patch 1.7 or so. Im interested in opening discussion about map specific play on under used maps that never really got wide admiration, like acro, asgrad, battle royal, geometry,great barrier reef, triathalon, and others. ive been scouring the TLPD to refresh my broodwar maps folder, and incentivizing new and creative ways to shake up brood war via new strategies and ive found some amazing finds. Wondering if other players have given these play spaces any time or attention like i have.
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