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On November 04 2017 00:22 Dead9 wrote:
@Alpha-NP-
terran don't often opens mech because the current maps don't really support it. opening mech gives zerg the option of expanding much more easily than opening bio
@Golgotha
1. generally stasis then recall. for the most part arb energy isn't worth it unless you're playing a very slow game or have a lot of arbs
2. alt q q or f10 esq
1. Wrong, you should always start an arbiter, then start researching energy right away, when it finishes you can get stasis, then recall (in the order you need them). At the time your 1st arbiter has enough energy for a stasis, the stasis upgrade should be completed. Your second arbiter (if you start it right after) will benefit from the energy upgrade already.
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except you can build a second stargate instead of getting energy upg and get more arbs, or just spend the resources on something else
it's +12 energy per arb. not worth the investment until much later on in the game when you want stasis + recall on a single arb
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In ASL4 Semi-Finals Bisu vs Flash Game 3, why did Flash rely on Bio+Tanks to deal with Carriers+Reavers instead of Bio+Ranged Goliaths? I figured Goliaths would help against Reavers more than Siege Tanks would. What were the Siege Tanks for in Flash's strategy?
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Reavers weren't out when Flash started to push, Bisu scouted the bio-switch only when the first two carriers arrived at Flash's base and then quickly threw down robo-bay.
Flash had tanks anyway like you would in a normal TvP. Without the tanks, he couldn't have crossed the map against Bisu's ground-army. Tanks are great against Protoss ground-army, also good for sniping reavers. I'd rather have a few tanks than a few goliaths against HTs, too. Even if Flash had foreseen the Reaver, he would've built tanks.
You mean, a few Goliaths with range would have been great to snipe the shuttle? Maybe, but they would get sniped quickly by the Carriers. Could've been worth a try at some point, but unlikely to work.
Also: this was a do-or-die-reaction by Flash (partly for the show and to annoy Bisu probably), he surely hoped to win before Bisu could react with AOE-tech.
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Hey guys. This question doesnt have to do anything with strategy but I dont see a need to make a thread for it in BW general.
Has anyone had trouble finding games on ranked today? Troughout the day Id say Ive spent a good hour in "finding a game" on ranked and havent gotten a single one (im EU). Dunno if its just me or the ranked is bugged
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is it possible to block marines on ramp with lurker egg? i just lost game because i thought i could but they just pass by
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On November 04 2017 06:57 AcMilan91 wrote:
is it possible to block marines on ramp with lurker egg? i just lost game because i thought i could but they just pass by
Depends on the tileset, on fighting spirit you can block marines from every ramp with a single lurker egg as long as it's in the right position, I think on circuit breaker you might not be able to block it with one, you might need two.
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yeah its only the dirt and jungle cliff ramp tileset that has the single small spot to block everything its a small spot lol
many times lost because i tried blocking it with a DT against another DT or something and failed :D
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Whats the standard amount of factories on 2 base for a tvt? How many machine shop? How fast do you typically get +1?
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On November 04 2017 00:22 Dead9 wrote:
@Alpha-NP-
terran don't often opens mech because the current maps don't really support it. opening mech gives zerg the option of expanding much more easily than opening bio
@Golgotha
1. generally stasis then recall. for the most part arb energy isn't worth it unless you're playing a very slow game or have a lot of arbs
2. alt q q or f10 esq
lmao. that explains why I sometimes accidentally leave my games. Alt q q. Shit. thanks man.
On November 04 2017 01:08 Dead9 wrote:
except you can build a second stargate instead of getting energy upg and get more arbs, or just spend the resources on something else
it's +12 energy per arb. not worth the investment until much later on in the game when you want stasis + recall on a single arb
1. You make a sound argument. the energy doesn't seem that important that early on. However, I think Jealous showed me that it's better to get the energy first since you can't even use stasis right away if you upgrade stasis first. Is this true?
Also does it make sense to get recall first in a PvT situation? Or will it be a waste since the arbiter won't have 150 energy right away? That would mean stasis first is best.
2. PvZ. When facing a lurker field where the lurkers are not supported by mass hydra (hydras are in the back), isn't it better to save the storms for the hydras instead of hitting the lurkers that are spread apart? Better to just send in goons to kill the lurkers, then start storming when the hdyras come in to support the lurkers. What do you guys do?
If I see a clump of lurkers, I will definitely storm it. But when the lurkers are spread and I have to use a single storm for a single lurker, it seems like a waste. I need to save my storms for the mass hydras that will come in and kill my goons.
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Norway28733 Posts
What you generally do is use 1 storm + 1 dragoon shot on some lurkers at first, to thin out the field. This will generally lead to the zerg relocating his front lurkers, giving you more space. But this all depends on how many storms you have, because indeed, it is much more important to have storm left for the hydras.
But if you have like 6 storms and he has 8 lurkers, you can spend two of your storms + 2 goon shots killing two lurkers. Then you can reposition your units slightly further out, but you don't have to commit to the real push yet. But you keep periodically doing that, never using all your storms, but whenever you have more than 4 storms left, you can kill off a lurker. His contain becomes thinner (or he has to commit to more and more lurkers) while you, on most maps, manage to carve out a path so you don't have to engage against the field of burrowed lurkers.
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On November 04 2017 21:12 Liquid`Drone wrote:
What you generally do is use 1 storm + 1 dragoon shot on some lurkers at first, to thin out the field. This will generally lead to the zerg relocating his front lurkers, giving you more space. But this all depends on how many storms you have, because indeed, it is much more important to have storm left for the hydras.
But if you have like 6 storms and he has 8 lurkers, you can spend two of your storms + 2 goon shots killing two lurkers. Then you can reposition your units slightly further out, but you don't have to commit to the real push yet. But you keep periodically doing that, never using all your storms, but whenever you have more than 4 storms left, you can kill off a lurker. His contain becomes thinner (or he has to commit to more and more lurkers) while you, on most maps, manage to carve out a path so you don't have to engage against the field of burrowed lurkers.
thanks man. cutting a path so that I can avoid the field is a great idea. I always focus on killing the entire thing, but why not just avoid it if I can bypass it. So a storm and a goon shot will always kill a lurker no matter the upgrades? if so, that is a good tip to always remember. and for now on, I will never double storm a single lurker. >_<
On November 04 2017 23:05 Ty2 wrote:
You get recall if you have very few arbiters (1 stargate) and stasis if you have 2. A build like 2 base arb where you’re likely to have only one stargate you’re gonna want recall because you have a much sooner arb so more energy and flexibility by the time terran usually pushes and it forces a greater reaction and influence on terran.
that makes sense. thanks man. if I am going for a fast arb timing, i will get recall first and try to end the game with the recall. but if it's a long macro game with multiple arbs, I will get stasis since it will probably mean multiple engagements.
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On November 05 2017 18:41 Ty2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2017 15:02 Golgotha wrote:On November 04 2017 21:12 Liquid`Drone wrote:
What you generally do is use 1 storm + 1 dragoon shot on some lurkers at first, to thin out the field. This will generally lead to the zerg relocating his front lurkers, giving you more space. But this all depends on how many storms you have, because indeed, it is much more important to have storm left for the hydras.
But if you have like 6 storms and he has 8 lurkers, you can spend two of your storms + 2 goon shots killing two lurkers. Then you can reposition your units slightly further out, but you don't have to commit to the real push yet. But you keep periodically doing that, never using all your storms, but whenever you have more than 4 storms left, you can kill off a lurker. His contain becomes thinner (or he has to commit to more and more lurkers) while you, on most maps, manage to carve out a path so you don't have to engage against the field of burrowed lurkers. thanks man. cutting a path so that I can avoid the field is a great idea. I always focus on killing the entire thing, but why not just avoid it if I can bypass it. So a storm and a goon shot will always kill a lurker no matter the upgrades? if so, that is a good tip to always remember. and for now on, I will never double storm a single lurker. >_< On November 04 2017 23:05 Ty2 wrote:
You get recall if you have very few arbiters (1 stargate) and stasis if you have 2. A build like 2 base arb where you’re likely to have only one stargate you’re gonna want recall because you have a much sooner arb so more energy and flexibility by the time terran usually pushes and it forces a greater reaction and influence on terran. that makes sense. thanks man. if I am going for a fast arb timing, i will get recall first and try to end the game with the recall. but if it's a long macro game with multiple arbs, I will get stasis since it will probably mean multiple engagements. Well, you don't have to end the game. 2 base arb is a very safe build to do that can easily go into the late game. The threat of a recall is the most important aspect.
1. What do you think of saving the recall to recall on top of tanks? Instead of recalling into the main, why not recall on the enemy army and crush his force? But for some reason I don't see people doing this often.
2. Is there a post that shows the protoss wallins on Python? I've been doing random stuff but my walls are like a sieve. I have to use 3+ probes to fill the holes.
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recalls on army is harder to execute than you think.
you want your army to be already dispatched for mine clearing and stalling when terran comes out with their army. this usually means you dont have a nice ball of units clumped up waiting to be recalled because you need the army to be mobile for the map control.
2ndly, lets say you take a gamble and relinquish map control for the recall clump and then your arbiter gets emped...youre pretty fked right there lol. you havent stopped any advancement, and your army positioning is already shite because your zealots are standing in a clump somewhere doing nothing so terran gets to do whatever and just steamroll you
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In pvz, when you open gate first, what is the correct BO after the gate? I usually keep making probes and make a single zealot before I get the nexus. Which is at 16/17. Then I make a pylon, forge, cannon, and cyber in that order. Of course it's a bit different depending on how many zealots I get, but I believe I am doing it wrong and would like to optimize.
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On November 06 2017 16:22 Golgotha wrote:
In pvz, when you open gate first, what is the correct BO after the gate? I usually keep making probes and make a single zealot before I get the nexus. Which is at 16/17. Then I make a pylon, forge, cannon, and cyber in that order. Of course it's a bit different depending on how many zealots I get, but I believe I am doing it wrong and would like to optimize.
Never done that, but as seen in pro vods they usually make more zealots before nexus.
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On November 06 2017 18:47 ajmbek wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2017 16:22 Golgotha wrote:
In pvz, when you open gate first, what is the correct BO after the gate? I usually keep making probes and make a single zealot before I get the nexus. Which is at 16/17. Then I make a pylon, forge, cannon, and cyber in that order. Of course it's a bit different depending on how many zealots I get, but I believe I am doing it wrong and would like to optimize. Never done that, but as seen in pro vods they usually make more zealots before nexus.
Making only one zealot is inefficient. If you're going gate first, you should make at least 3 to pressure zerg into making lings. I believe if you're making at least 3, you would have 3 pylons before nexus. But obviously, as the game goes, you have to adapt your build. Your order is fine though, forge, nexus, cyber - you can get a cannon before/after the nexus/cyber depending on what happens and how greedy you want to be.
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On November 06 2017 16:22 Golgotha wrote:
In pvz, when you open gate first, what is the correct BO after the gate? I usually keep making probes and make a single zealot before I get the nexus. Which is at 16/17. Then I make a pylon, forge, cannon, and cyber in that order. Of course it's a bit different depending on how many zealots I get, but I believe I am doing it wrong and would like to optimize.
I'm not a high-level Protoss by any means, but I've been using the Liquipedia Gateway-expand guide here. It seems somewhat outdated but OK as a baseline.
I have my own question about this, though:
When doing a Gateway-expand against Zerg, what is the proper response against a 9-pool with speed? Do I drop a forge at the wall and try to block with Probes + my first Zealot until I can get up cannons? Should I do that if it's a 4/5 pool? Or at that point do I have to block my ramp with the Zealot/Probes and sacrifice my Gate/Pylon?
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EPT
