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Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 3

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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Armathai
Profile Joined October 2007
1023 Posts
May 09 2011 18:15 GMT
#41
On May 10 2011 01:09 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2011 10:28 hacklebeast wrote:
If that's what he was asking, it would look something like this:

3 hatch>14cc>12hatch>1 rax fe>12pool>overpool>2 rax>9 pool>bbs>5pool


this is wrong

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't it more like
3hatch before pool = 14 CC > 12hatch=1rax FE >12pool >overpool = 2rax CC >9pool > BBS >5pool


economically speaking.
Looking for ArcticCerebrate formerly from @USEast
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
May 09 2011 20:07 GMT
#42
12hatch doesn't explain anything. If you go 2hatch tech then you're going to be economically behind any 1rax fe build. Just saying "1rax fe" doesn't explain things enough either, as there are different 1rax fe openings. I'm also very, very certain that 2rax cc > overpool.
Hidden_MotiveS
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada2562 Posts
May 09 2011 20:39 GMT
#43
On May 09 2011 22:09 Frigo wrote:
60 drones on 3 bases? That's 17 drones on minerals for each base, meaning 4 or perhaps 3 hatcheries per base, or 10 to 17 overall (5 to 3 drones on minerals per hatch). That drone count is more appropriate for 4 bases, with 2 hatcheries at each base, increased to 3 hatcheries if the money allows it. And a 4 base zerg with 60 drones and time to power up completely OWNS a 2-base terran, no matter how many SCVs he has.

A more realistic comparison would be 42 drones (3*[11+3]) vs somewhere between 42 and 60 SCVs (2*[9*2..3+3]).

Of course the question itself is silly, you can't make a straight comparison due to several factors, including the different mechanics of the races, different unit costs, different unit mixes, time available to power up, timing windows, etc.

Yeah, that part is wrong. Sorry, I meant to say 48 workers for both.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
May 09 2011 23:47 GMT
#44
On May 10 2011 03:15 Armathai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2011 01:09 zulu_nation8 wrote:
On May 09 2011 10:28 hacklebeast wrote:
If that's what he was asking, it would look something like this:

3 hatch>14cc>12hatch>1 rax fe>12pool>overpool>2 rax>9 pool>bbs>5pool


this is wrong

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't it more like
3hatch before pool = 14 CC > 12hatch=1rax FE >12pool >overpool = 2rax CC >9pool > BBS >5pool


economically speaking.


This is better but there are too many variations to compile a simple ranking out of.
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
May 09 2011 23:57 GMT
#45
I've seen that a single lurker takes absolutely no damage under a swarm, but

Do clumped lurkers under swarm take damage?
☺
Hidden_MotiveS
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada2562 Posts
May 10 2011 00:10 GMT
#46
On May 10 2011 08:57 Release wrote:
I've seen that a single lurker takes absolutely no damage under a swarm, but

Do clumped lurkers under swarm take damage?

Lurkers under swarm, even clumped, take no damage from sieged tanks. If you irradiate a single lurker in a clump, only that irradiated lurker will take damage.

Dark swarm prevents direct damage from ranged attacks on units.
Burrow prevents indirect splash damage.
Magus
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada450 Posts
May 10 2011 00:39 GMT
#47
Guys, did you just miss the huge discussion on dark swarm where we proved lurkers can be hurt under swarm while burrowed in certain circumstances?
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-10 01:33:45
May 10 2011 01:26 GMT
#48
I read that and im confused. Some people saying lurkers cant be killed from under swarm. Some people say they can. This is supposed to be simple answers. SO:

Can clumped lurkers be damaged under swarm from sieged siege tanks? yes or no
☺
hauton
Profile Joined March 2009
Hong Kong743 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-10 02:44:50
May 10 2011 02:34 GMT
#49
Edit: from Liquipedia

Dark Swarm
Under Dark Swarm, the projectile is shifted to the side. Therefore, the point of impact is also shifted to the side. Since the point of impact is shifted to the side, units under Dark Swarm are only affected by the splash damage of those units with radial splash. In addition, if a unit is on top of the shifted point of impact, it takes full damage from the attack. Burrowed units do not take damage from radial splash under Dark Swarm. There are a few exceptions to this effect, and they are the: Reaver, Infested Terran, Firebat, and Spider Mine. In the case of these units, they don't have a projectile attack sprite, so their attacks are not shifted at all. The two airborne radial splash damage dealers both do not attack ground, thus they never come into conflict with Dark Swarm.


So I think this is conclusively saying that Siege Tanks do not do any damage to Lurkers. They are a ranged damage whose radial splash does not fall within the list of these exceptions.
keep it up, youll either be famous or homeless one day
Rustymike
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Finland327 Posts
May 10 2011 03:54 GMT
#50
Ok. This is kinda semiofftopic but.
Has anyone besides me tried this in ZvT? After the standard 3hatchmuta opening into lurkerling, where you inch by inch move back slowly, take one or two of your lurkers and put them on hold position behind Terrans possible 2nd expansion mineral lines (since he is only on two bases at this point). After the game moves towards late game and he has saturated the expansion, remove the hold command. It's like an invisible drop. I've tried it against two terrans and they didn't know what hit them.
I think I've never seen in any provods either the Terran scanning their possible expansions before taking them (well only if there is a ling blocking them burrowed).
Magus
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada450 Posts
May 10 2011 04:22 GMT
#51
On May 10 2011 11:34 hauton wrote:
Edit: from Liquipedia

Show nested quote +
Dark Swarm
Under Dark Swarm, the projectile is shifted to the side. Therefore, the point of impact is also shifted to the side. Since the point of impact is shifted to the side, units under Dark Swarm are only affected by the splash damage of those units with radial splash. In addition, if a unit is on top of the shifted point of impact, it takes full damage from the attack. Burrowed units do not take damage from radial splash under Dark Swarm. There are a few exceptions to this effect, and they are the: Reaver, Infested Terran, Firebat, and Spider Mine. In the case of these units, they don't have a projectile attack sprite, so their attacks are not shifted at all. The two airborne radial splash damage dealers both do not attack ground, thus they never come into conflict with Dark Swarm.


So I think this is conclusively saying that Siege Tanks do not do any damage to Lurkers. They are a ranged damage whose radial splash does not fall within the list of these exceptions.

You forgot the part I bolded in there, which means lurkers in front of the targeted lurker can be killed if the tank shot is on top of them.
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
May 10 2011 05:58 GMT
#52
On May 10 2011 13:22 Magus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2011 11:34 hauton wrote:
Edit: from Liquipedia

Dark Swarm
Under Dark Swarm, the projectile is shifted to the side. Therefore, the point of impact is also shifted to the side. Since the point of impact is shifted to the side, units under Dark Swarm are only affected by the splash damage of those units with radial splash. In addition, if a unit is on top of the shifted point of impact, it takes full damage from the attack. Burrowed units do not take damage from radial splash under Dark Swarm. There are a few exceptions to this effect, and they are the: Reaver, Infested Terran, Firebat, and Spider Mine. In the case of these units, they don't have a projectile attack sprite, so their attacks are not shifted at all. The two airborne radial splash damage dealers both do not attack ground, thus they never come into conflict with Dark Swarm.


So I think this is conclusively saying that Siege Tanks do not do any damage to Lurkers. They are a ranged damage whose radial splash does not fall within the list of these exceptions.

You forgot the part I bolded in there, which means lurkers in front of the targeted lurker can be killed if the tank shot is on top of them.


Thinking about the discussion, the dark swarm works by moving the projectile 1 unit grid from the target, therefore nullifying any direct damage, and the burrow ignores splash damage. However, the projectile, now one unit grid away from the original target, will "directly" attack the spot, damaging, killing, even burrowed units. I think this is the most logical explanation.
☺
zatic
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Zurich15325 Posts
May 12 2011 08:03 GMT
#53
On May 09 2011 06:42 Murderotica wrote:
I saw that the SC2 forum has created something good for a change and that is the SQ/SA thread.

Pah, elitists!
ModeratorI know Teamliquid is known as a massive building
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
May 12 2011 13:53 GMT
#54
lol at the first two responses in the SC2 thread
[Cute]Pjnkje
Profile Joined December 2010
Vietnam50 Posts
May 15 2011 03:26 GMT
#55
...and the burrow ignores splash damage


Many say that splash damage cant hurt burrowed units, but I often see an Archon attack a zealot to kill the burrowed Lurker, so ...?
High APM is when you press the "gg + ctrl + Q + Q" combination before your opponent has chance to reply "gg"
Percutio
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1672 Posts
May 15 2011 05:17 GMT
#56
Not under dark swam I'm guessing
What does it matter how I loose it?
fazek42
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Hungary438 Posts
May 15 2011 09:20 GMT
#57
Is there a reson behind many BO-s in TvP saying you should build your rax at 12, as well as your refinery? I usually just build my rax at 11 and the refinery at 12. What is the reasoning behind building both at 12?
buhhy
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1113 Posts
May 15 2011 18:48 GMT
#58
Guys, I have tested. Tanks can indeed kill lurkers under swarm. Will post screenies later.
Magus
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada450 Posts
May 15 2011 19:13 GMT
#59
On May 16 2011 03:48 buhhy wrote:
Guys, I have tested. Tanks can indeed kill lurkers under swarm. Will post screenies later.

We already tested and answered this.

Twice.

Does no one read page 2?
buhhy
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1113 Posts
May 15 2011 19:14 GMT
#60
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]
Cool, no?
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