EPTcan someone explain the show?
Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 170
| Forum Index > Brood War Strategy |
|
ionONE
Germany605 Posts
can someone explain the show? | ||
|
evilfatsh1t
Australia8913 Posts
On November 20 2013 20:05 Golgotha wrote: 1. I have a question about mid game ZvP. If the protoss army is too big to fight in the mid game and he has secured a 3rd with little damage, should I race to Hive and get defilers asap? In ZvT, we are racing against terran to play standard AND get defilers before the vessel push comes. Against toss, am I racing against something? What elements of protoss play requires me to tech against (like in ZvT)? If I do not have a certain tech, am I dead? In ZvT, I know what my goal is (get defilers asap and survive). In ZvP, all I can think about is out macroing my opponent. Is there any other specific timing goals I should have? 2. In ZvP mid game, my supply count is like 30-40 supply lower than Toss. Is this normal? Kinda demoralizing. what build are u going? 5 hatch hydra or 4 base turtle into fast hive? mutalisks? in zvp its generally the protoss who is "racing" against the clock. they want to secure 3rd gas as fast as possible while dealing damage to zerg economy to survive in the mid-late game, kind of like how zerg uses mutalisks and lurkers to buy time for 4th gas against terran you need to have a game plan that fits your build. know what the strengths and weaknesses are of your builds and abuse them. hydras are good because they give you map control and early pressure, but your hive comes slightly later because you need to invest so much into a hydra army and lurkers, meaning if you dont deal any damage protoss will roll you once they get their "deathball" mutalisks are good early if they dont see it coming, or you can incorporate it into your hydra army and snipe templars but if you dont kill enough key units/deal economic damage you will straight up lose because they suck in army vs army fights. the turtle strat is just getting sunkens and lurkers/zerglings and defending pushes like crazy until you get defilers. also need to be careful of shuttle shenanigans since you have no map control. also its not normal to be behind 30/40 supply. you might find yourself behind in supply like that after a fight, which is normal, but when there have been no engagements you should be pretty level with toss | ||
|
evilfatsh1t
Australia8913 Posts
On November 21 2013 00:25 Golgotha wrote: 3. When you have a bunch of units all holding their thingies at the rally point, is there a method you guys use to ctrl group them all neatly into groups? if i want to be neat, I grab a bunch of units, group them, and then move them out of the screen. Kinda slow. what do you guys do? this board sure moves fast. control click a specific unit and it will group up as many of those units there are in the area. for example if you have a ball of zerglings and hydras mixed together, control click the hydras and it will select 12 hydralisks. or you can shift click/double click/highlight units to add them to existing control groups | ||
|
icystorage
Jollibee19350 Posts
- ctrl + click to select SAME units on the screen (double clicking also does the trick) - shift + group number adds currently selected units to a control group. this is different from ctrl + group number since it overwrites what ever is in that number. for example. 4 zerglings, ctrl + 1. they are hotkeyed to 1. you get 4 hydras and you shift + 1. the '1' group now has 4 zerglings and 4 hydras. if you ctrl + 1 the 4 hydras, they will overwrite whatever was in '1' with 4 hydras. - shift + click a selected unit (in screen or in the hud) removes the unit from the current highlight selection. - shift + ctrl + click a selected unit (in screen or in the hud) removes units OF THE SAME TYPE from the current highlight selection. i bet you already know this stuff, just stating it just in case | ||
|
Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
| ||
|
Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
| ||
|
Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
On November 21 2013 12:27 Golgotha wrote: thanks evilfat, I've been doing hydra on 5 hatch and it works pretty well, still working on it. However, is there a build that is 5-6 hatch muta? I think mutas would be great to completely shutdown +1 zeal once you see the forge spinning. You can open with muta off your first three hatcheries before going on to 5-6 hatch hydra. It'll delay the hatcheries a bit and you'll have a smaller ground army, but it's excellent vs +1 speedlots. The difficult thing is if they go corsair as well, because you have to try deal with them without losing your muta. | ||
|
evilfatsh1t
Australia8913 Posts
it does stop +1 zeals but you really dont want to be making mutalisks just to defend +1 pushes, because you reveal your mutalisks quite early and a lot of time is spent at your base dealing with zealots. protoss is given too much time to build a couple of cannons and corsairs, meaning you cant do any damage and eventually you will lose air superiority. if youve been playing hydra builds mainly i would suggest you go for early aggression, such as hydra busts or contains. mutalisks are only good nowadays if the opponent doesnt actively scout with corsairs or you managed to snipe a couple very early on | ||
|
Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
Last night I watched Trutouch play ZvP and I was wondering about something. 1. Why does he take the 3rd at the 12, 3, 6, and 9 positions? He could have taken one at an empty base and secure two bases at once. Is there a certain reason why 12, 3, 6, and 9 might be better at times? 2. Trutouch stays on lair tech for a long time and does drops and upgrades. His style. But at what point is defiler required? Once the toss has 4th? | ||
|
Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
On November 21 2013 19:11 Golgotha wrote: Yeah, you guys are right. I will stick to pumping hydras around 50 supply and trying to find advantages here and there while I macro up. Last night I watched Trutouch play ZvP and I was wondering about something. 1. Why does he take the 3rd at the 12, 3, 6, and 9 positions? He could have taken one at an empty base and secure two bases at once. Is there a certain reason why 12, 3, 6, and 9 might be better at times? I've talked to some gosus about this, and as far as I can work out it's better for Zerg if they want to go for a macro game, as it's much easier to defend that base than the natural third. Natural third is more risky on FS in the current FS metagame. A bunch of the snipealot streamers have started to tend to take the close third as well. | ||
|
evilfatsh1t
Australia8913 Posts
On November 21 2013 19:11 Golgotha wrote: Yeah, you guys are right. I will stick to pumping hydras around 50 supply and trying to find advantages here and there while I macro up. Last night I watched Trutouch play ZvP and I was wondering about something. 1. Why does he take the 3rd at the 12, 3, 6, and 9 positions? He could have taken one at an empty base and secure two bases at once. Is there a certain reason why 12, 3, 6, and 9 might be better at times? 2. Trutouch stays on lair tech for a long time and does drops and upgrades. His style. But at what point is defiler required? Once the toss has 4th? probably because the distance is shorter, making it easier to defend. the minerals/gas is the same amount for the expos, but one is harder to defend than the other. if you can defend the natural successfully then you are almost guaranteed an easy 4th, but its higher risk. also 4th base at a starting point is too hard to defend against dt/ht/zealot drops. defilers are required pretty much when protoss has too many units for lurkers to deal with. this usually means protoss has his 3rd and has a good bunch of dragoons and ht. theres no real benefit from staying on lair too much. upgrades need hive tech eventually so you cant stay on lair too long, and you only really need to get 2 overlord upgrades max (speed and drop). i dont know how good trutouch is but personally i wouldnt model my game after anyone other than korean pros. | ||
|
Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
Yeah, I'm seeing more and more people do this and it seems pretty solid. You can't get your 4th as quick but you are pretty much guaranteed to survive the first and 2nd push since it's so easy to reinforce AND that ramp is hell for toss. @evil I don't know. I do feel at times that I should rush to cracklings, but if I do stop hydra/lurk and go for hive, I am taking the pressure off toss and playing defense. Ah, I guess I need to watch more games since I don't know the flow of ZvP very well. Trutcz is actually very very good. I understand that we should look at the best, but I sometimes they play too gosu (if that makes sense). They cut corners and do risky stuff because they have the game knowledge of knowing when and how it will work. | ||
|
amazingxkcd
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
On November 21 2013 19:20 Birdie wrote: I've talked to some gosus about this, and as far as I can work out it's better for Zerg if they want to go for a macro game, as it's much easier to defend that base than the natural third. Natural third is more risky on FS in the current FS metagame. A bunch of the snipealot streamers have started to tend to take the close third as well. From what I have seen and talked with fellow zergs about, you generally take the close 3rd when you want to go 6 hatch hydra to get that strong mid game hydra army and shut down the protoss's 3rd or kill him if he takes early 3rd. With the far 3rd, you are settling down for a lurker first opening, and playing for the late-game of which hive units gets involved. You let the 3rd go up in this case, but you counter-act with the fast 4th and 5th once you have sufficient lurkers. | ||
|
traceurling
United States1240 Posts
On November 22 2013 01:55 amazingxkcd wrote: From what I have seen and talked with fellow zergs about, you generally take the close 3rd when you want to go 6 hatch hydra to get that strong mid game hydra army and shut down the protoss's 3rd or kill him if he takes early 3rd. With the far 3rd, you are settling down for a lurker first opening, and playing for the late-game of which hive units gets involved. You let the 3rd go up in this case, but you counter-act with the fast 4th and 5th once you have sufficient lurkers. How does Protoss deal withthis? I've run into a lot recently a lot and just lose to hydralurk...what type of build should I respond with :/ | ||
|
kerpal
United Kingdom2695 Posts
Which is a longwinded way of saying I don't really know! | ||
|
Hoender
South Africa382 Posts
| ||
|
Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
On November 22 2013 23:59 Hoender wrote: When playing my offrace zerg, I hotkey my first 6 hatches from 5 to 0. I really struggle to hit the correct keys when selecting hatches 8 and up, especially when spawning hydras, mutas and ultras. With which fingers should I hit each of the shortcut keys? I've been thinking of using my pinky finger for select and thumb for the unit shortcut key for those cases. Is that the easiest and best solution? Damn gosu. I only use 3 hotkeys for my hatches. the rest I use camera locations and just ctrl click the larvae or box select them. @ZvPers Been taking the close 3rd on FS. It helps soooo much. In many of my games the toss wont even go up that ramp cuz it is a lot more harrowing to go into that ramp than a wide natural choke. Time to look at Nina's wall pictures and study how pros wall the 12, 3, 6, and 9 bases. Much easier to defend and pump drones peacefully. Then bam. You bust out with mass hydra and ling. and either delay his 3rd or just go kill him and camp his main when u get lurkers. Dont lose your army, keep it and expand behind it if the toss has a strong 3rd and natural and you can't do damage. Or go for drops. It might not be the best economic choice, but it sure as hell keeps you in the game and gives u lots of options on how you want to play (go drops, mass hydra/lurk/ling style, or go hive with expo behind your army). Anyone else been taking the close 3rd? OH. AND DONT FORGET WHEN TOSS IS ANNOYING AS HELL and blocks your expansion. Just go to the close 3rd instead of going across the damn screen and laugh at toss while he puts down an pylon. | ||
|
oGoZenob
France1503 Posts
Any idea ? | ||
|
Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
On November 23 2013 07:16 oGoZenob wrote: Does anyone know how to solve connexion conflict between players on iccup ? I can't play with one of my teammate, because when we are in a game together the lag is unbearable. Also, we can't talk in game, because the chat don't work between us. Any idea ? Usually this is NAT conflict. Google how to disable NAT for your router, and the same for him. | ||
|
traceurling
United States1240 Posts
| ||
| ||
