Jaedong vod analysis with pictures - Page 2
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TheNessman
United States4158 Posts
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]343[
United States10328 Posts
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Taekwon
United States8155 Posts
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swanized
Canada2480 Posts
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Chef
10810 Posts
On March 23 2011 05:47 nbaker wrote: It's my fault for not getting a shot of it, but Jaedong had already made a sunken to fend off the bunker rush earlier in the game, so the marines didn't really force Jaedong to do anything more as far as I could tell. Thanks for the feedback everyone! I'm really glad you guys liked it. I do plan on doing more and maybe trying to analyze some games that are more exciting than this one was (though from a learning perspective I've heard that easy victories are the most instructive). I'll definitely take into account any games you guys recommend since I was basically just clicking at random on TLPD for this one. Hahaha "4 marines is not really viable to kill a sunken and 4 lings" no, no it is not ![]() ![]() | ||
Armathai
1023 Posts
As suggested by someone previously, looking at JD vs Flash on Tau Cross from WCG would be great, because, we have Vods and the replay of this game, making analysis much easier! Besides the fact that the game is epic and JD wins! | ||
Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
On March 23 2011 07:48 swanized wrote: solid analysis but I find it hard to comment considering the strategy you analyzed, try doing something thatl eads to a more complex mid/late-game next time^^ yeah I agree. It was well done (a VOD with commentary would be kind of cool too), but I was hoping for a longer game with more decision making from the players. | ||
Modesty00
Bulgaria262 Posts
On March 22 2011 15:47 punkideas wrote: If you haven't already, check out the old (BW) Day[9] dailies. Those are all great pro VOD strategic analyses. I found only sc2 so pls link | ||
Tomken
Norway1144 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=104154 | ||
nbaker
United States1341 Posts
On March 23 2011 09:04 Grobyc wrote: yeah I agree. It was well done (a VOD with commentary would be kind of cool too), but I was hoping for a longer game with more decision making from the players. Ok, I'll try one next game. I don't really feel competent to provide a comprehensive analysis of a long high level game but if you guys are willing to help out by correcting and adding to my analysis, I do agree it will be more useful. Thanks for the feedback! | ||
Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
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swanized
Canada2480 Posts
On March 23 2011 11:35 nbaker wrote: Ok, I'll try one next game. I don't really feel competent to provide a comprehensive analysis of a long high level game but if you guys are willing to help out by correcting and adding to my analysis, I do agree it will be more useful. Thanks for the feedback! yeah please do! it can only help you out! | ||
Fiel
United States587 Posts
I really don't play Brood War, I just love to watch it. Doing this analysis makes the game so much more clear. If I had to guess how good my analysis is, I'd say I'd be a D or D+. I do play high plat Z in SC2. Please correct me if I make mistakes! + Show Spoiler [Flash vs. RorO @ Fortress SE] + MAP: Fortress SE PLAYERS: Flash (T) @ 9 RorO (Z) @ 3 VOD: ![]() Z opens with 12 hatch 11 pool 10 gas. ![]() T opens with 1 depot 1 rax wall in. I'm not really sure if that's ling tight or not. Standard ZvT so far. But Flash is at a small disadvantage in these positions. Z is cross map and his marines spawn outside the wall - a minor annoyance for a standard 1 rax FE build. ![]() Flash scouts at 12 and then at 3 to find his opponent. He sees the lair timing. It's absolutely critical that Flash keeps this SCV alive until lair finishes so he can find what tech path Z is going to choose. This will also save on scans if he can keep the SCV alive and it means he won't have to sacrifice his vulture later on (also textbook ZvT). Keeping the SCV here will also force Z to build his tech choice at the natural thus limiting his options. ![]() After scouting a 2 hatch lair, Flash doesn't feel comfortable building the CC directly at the natural (could be ling all in), so he constructs it inside the wall and gets his fact up simultaneously. He builds a vulture and sends it west only to meet a sunken. ![]() Flash sees the lair complete and, not noticing any tech in the main, scouts around the sunken at the natural and sees the spire timing. He also sees that RorO created a third hatch in between his natural and main. His SCV dies shortly after returning to Z's main. Note that even if his SCV had died, Flash could have suicided his vulture to see the Spire. ![]() With no ling all ins on the way, Flash feels safe expanding to his natural and continuing with his normal anti 2 hatch muta. ![]() After RorO has his spire done and mutalisks on the way, he creates a hydra den and begins lurker aspect. ![]() RorO's muta harass is largely ineffective. Flash already has missile turrets everywhere and marines guarding where missile turrets aren't. All RorO can do is pick off stray SCVs. All those mutalisks only pick off about 4 SCVs. Flash is way ahead at this point having successfully blocked the harass. RorO never takes a third and instead creates more lurkers and lings. ![]() Once Flash knows he's perfectly safe from the muta harass, he pushes out with his first marines. RorO's goal is to now pick off the entire marine assault. The best way to do this is to make sure that you only attack marines while they are perpendicular to the mutalisks. Unfortunately, RorO never gets this chance. ![]() Instead, he sneaks behind the marines and burrows his lurkers in the middle of the map in an attempt to destroy reinforcements. Although he kills a few reinforcements, Flash retreats his forward marines and sandwiches the lurkers. Flash should feel thankful that he pulled his marines back. His two tanks were almost sniped by the mutalisks until his forward marines were able to save one tank from destruction. ![]() After his lurkers become largely useless, RorO then threatens backstabbing. However, Flash has so many marines that stimmed marines again sandwich the lurkers between their guns and the souther wall. RorO is crushed and is unable to backstab effectively. While his other lurker/ling forces are being destroyed, RorO sneaks out more lurker/lings and hides them in the north. Of course, the backstabbing here isn't attempting to do any damage. RorO is trying to buy time so he can get defilers out to stop the inevitable marine/siege force crushing his base. However, Flash is forcing RorO to make a difficult decision - Tech or Army? RorO can't do both, and this puts him in a difficult position. Hiding the lurker/ling in the north is a good option for RorO. Now he finally has a choice. Should he attempt to sandwich Flash outside of his natural OR should he actually perform the backstab? ![]() He's going to have to make a decision soon. Flash is shelling the natural, and four sunkens will fall very quickly. ![]() In an act of desperation, RorO decides to all in his opponent with lurker/ling/muta. ![]() However, because Flash was able to save so many scans from the excellent scouting beforehand, he was able to scan and kill every lurker but 3. Even though these lurkers are a pest, Flash knows that RorO doesn't have a third considering the number of forces he created. All he has to do is push and win. ![]() RorO is able to have more lurkers to defend his natural, but it's too little too late. Flash has already broken the front and there's little in his way to stop him. ![]() Although RorO was able to kill lots of SCVs, it's inconsequential to the game. He already lost even before this act of desperation happened, and Flash is hardly concerned. ![]() Notice no defiler mound. Zerg taps out. Throughout the game there was no point in which there was any doubt Flash would succeed past the 4 minute mark. I'd call this game domination. | ||
gongryong
Korea (South)1430 Posts
On March 23 2011 16:07 Fiel wrote: Hope I'm not pissing on nbaker's parade here, but this looked so fun I decided to do one myself. I really don't play Brood War, I just love to watch it. Doing this analysis makes the game so much more clear. If I had to guess how good my analysis is, I'd say I'd be a D or D+. I do play high plat Z in SC2. Please correct me if I make mistakes! + Show Spoiler [Flash vs. RorO @ Fortress SE] + MAP: Fortress SE PLAYERS: Flash (T) @ 9 RorO (Z) @ 3 VOD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpMpeiAC0l0 ![]() Z opens with 12 hatch 11 pool 10 gas. ![]() T opens with 1 depot 1 rax wall in. I'm not really sure if that's ling tight or not. Standard ZvT so far. But Flash is at a small disadvantage in these positions. Z is cross map and his marines spawn outside the wall - a minor annoyance for a standard 1 rax FE build. ![]() Flash scouts at 12 and then at 3 to find his opponent. He sees the lair timing. It's absolutely critical that Flash keeps this SCV alive until lair finishes so he can find what tech path Z is going to choose. This will also save on scans if he can keep the SCV alive and it means he won't have to sacrifice his vulture later on (also textbook ZvT). Keeping the SCV here will also force Z to build his tech choice at the natural thus limiting his options. ![]() After scouting a 2 hatch lair, Flash doesn't feel comfortable building the CC directly at the natural (could be ling all in), so he constructs it inside the wall and gets his fact up simultaneously. He builds a vulture and sends it west only to meet a sunken. ![]() Flash sees the lair complete and, not noticing any tech in the main, scouts around the sunken at the natural and sees the spire timing. He also sees that RorO created a third hatch in between his natural and main. His SCV dies shortly after returning to Z's main. Note that even if his SCV had died, Flash could have suicided his vulture to see the Spire. ![]() With no ling all ins on the way, Flash feels safe expanding to his natural and continuing with his normal anti 2 hatch muta. ![]() After RorO has his spire done and mutalisks on the way, he creates a hydra den and begins lurker aspect. ![]() RorO's muta harass is largely ineffective. Flash already has missile turrets everywhere and marines guarding where missile turrets aren't. All RorO can do is pick off stray SCVs. All those mutalisks only pick off about 4 SCVs. Flash is way ahead at this point having successfully blocked the harass. RorO never takes a third and instead creates more lurkers and lings. ![]() Once Flash knows he's perfectly safe from the muta harass, he pushes out with his first marines. RorO's goal is to now pick off the entire marine assault. The best way to do this is to make sure that you only attack marines while they are perpendicular to the mutalisks. Unfortunately, RorO never gets this chance. ![]() Instead, he sneaks behind the marines and burrows his lurkers in the middle of the map in an attempt to destroy reinforcements. Although he kills a few reinforcements, Flash retreats his forward marines and sandwiches the lurkers. Flash should feel thankful that he pulled his marines back. His two tanks were almost sniped by the mutalisks until his forward marines were able to save one tank from destruction. ![]() After his lurkers become largely useless, RorO then threatens backstabbing. However, Flash has so many marines that stimmed marines again sandwich the lurkers between their guns and the souther wall. RorO is crushed and is unable to backstab effectively. While his other lurker/ling forces are being destroyed, RorO sneaks out more lurker/lings and hides them in the north. Of course, the backstabbing here isn't attempting to do any damage. RorO is trying to buy time so he can get defilers out to stop the inevitable marine/siege force crushing his base. However, Flash is forcing RorO to make a difficult decision - Tech or Army? RorO can't do both, and this puts him in a difficult position. Hiding the lurker/ling in the north is a good option for RorO. Now he finally has a choice. Should he attempt to sandwich Flash outside of his natural OR should he actually perform the backstab? ![]() He's going to have to make a decision soon. Flash is shelling the natural, and four sunkens will fall very quickly. ![]() In an act of desperation, RorO decides to all in his opponent with lurker/ling/muta. ![]() However, because Flash was able to save so many scans from the excellent scouting beforehand, he was able to scan and kill every lurker but 3. Even though these lurkers are a pest, Flash knows that RorO doesn't have a third considering the number of forces he created. All he has to do is push and win. ![]() RorO is able to have more lurkers to defend his natural, but it's too little too late. Flash has already broken the front and there's little in his way to stop him. ![]() Although RorO was able to kill lots of SCVs, it's inconsequential to the game. He already lost even before this act of desperation happened, and Flash is hardly concerned. ![]() Notice no defiler mound. Zerg taps out. Throughout the game there was no point in which there was any doubt Flash would succeed past the 4 minute mark. I'd call this game domination. LOL. Nice work man! We need more, not less, of this! ![]() BUT please next screen shot analysis like this, please limit to JD win games! this is a JD thread after all ![]() | ||
orangeshines
United Kingdom202 Posts
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nbaker
United States1341 Posts
On March 23 2011 17:09 gongryong wrote: LOL. Nice work man! We need more, not less, of this! ![]() BUT please next screen shot analysis like this, please limit to JD win games! this is a JD thread after all ![]() Thanks Fiel, this is great! I certainly don't mind you posting your analysis here, but why not start a new topic? It would let more people see it and comment on it. | ||
AfecksN
United Kingdom53 Posts
The only thing I'd say to be careful of is assumptions; what made you think he wasn't planning 2hatch lurk from beginning and that he was planning 3hat muta? (I haven't yet watched the vod btw) But that's a small (maybe invalid) niggle; overall a really nice analysis with attention both to micro and macro. | ||
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