• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:49
CEST 15:49
KST 22:49
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)10Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy4Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 9-15): herO doubles on GSL week1Firefly suspended by EWC, replaced by Lancer12Classic & herO RO8 Interviews: "I think it’s time to teach [Rogue] a lesson."2Rogue & GuMiho RO8 interviews: "Lifting that trophy would be a testament to all I’ve had to overcome over the years and how far I’ve come on this journey.8Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2)14
StarCraft 2
General
The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL Weekly Cups (June 9-15): herO doubles on GSL week The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Nexon wins bid to develop StarCraft IP content, distribute Overwatch mobile game Rogue EWC 2025 Hype Video!
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 SOOP Starcraft Global #22 $3,500 WardiTV European League 2025
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] Darkgrid Layout
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion ASL20 Preliminary Maps Recent recommended BW games FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu
Tourneys
[BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - WB Finals & LBR3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Echoes of Revolution and Separation
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024 2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 32013 users

Jaedong vod analysis with pictures

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
Normal
nbaker
Profile Joined July 2009
United States1341 Posts
March 22 2011 06:13 GMT
#1
Hi everyone. I was reading Ver's guide about improving in Broodwar and one thing he really emphasizes is watching and analyzing vods of progamers. I'm a zerg player, so I figured it made sense to start with watching Jaedong and analyzing his builds and style. Note that I picked the vod at random for the most part and I was not looking for an 'epic' game, but rather one where a build order was solidly executed. Please note that I am not a good player trying to teach anyone about how to play Broodwar but a fairly bad one making observations and trying to understand the thought process of progamers. Any criticism or correction is more than welcome.

So without further ado, here's Jaedong vs. Iris on Fighting Spirit.

[image loading]
Jaedong spawns in the bottom left on Fighting Spirit. He sends his scouting overlord straight up, the direction with a natural between the two mains. Iris is at the top right, so Jaedong will see him with his first scout.

[image loading]
Jaedong is going for the standard 12 hatch.

[image loading]
Iris makes a wall with a depot and 2 barracks at his natural choke. He is going to be going for early game pressure. Jaedong's overlord arrives shortly after, allowing him to respond to Iris's build.

[image loading]
Jaedong chooses not to go for the standard 3rd hatchery after spawning pool. From this, he can go 2 hatch muta, 2 hatch lurker, or an all-in speedling build.

[image loading]
Iris starts a bunker at Jaedong's natural expansion. Jaedong pulls five drones to defend against it. Fewer drones won't do enough damage to delay the bunker rush, but more drones will put Jaedong behind economically.

[image loading]
Jaedong loses a couple drones trying to delay the bunker and places a sunken colony at his natural expansion. The bunker finishes and Jaedong holds his drones back until his first 4 lings pop and then surrounds them and drives off the bunker rush.

[image loading]
After seeing only 4 lings from Jaedong and having already walled off his natural (not ling tight), Iris feels comfortable putting up a command center at his natural to try to keep up economically. He has not scouted Jaedong's main, so he doesn't know that Jaedong is playing non-standard (one of the weaknesses of using your first SCV to make a bunker).

[image loading]
Iris moves back out with four more marines to put a bit of pressure on Jaedong.

[image loading]
Jaedong chooses to go 2 hatch lurker in response to Iris's bunker rush. He knows that Iris's scans will be delayed and his sunken + lings can deny any SCV scouting, so Iris will have no way of figuring out Jaedong's strategy until the lurkers have nearly finished.

[image loading]
Iris chills out outside Jaedong's natural but does not attack. Four marines are not really viable against a sunken and zerglings, so I'm not really sure why he moved out at all. Maybe he was looking to intercept any scouts?

[image loading]
Iris leaves without doing anything with his marines.

[image loading]
Iris is starting his Engineering Bay and he just finished his academy. He still thinks that Jaedong is going for Mutalisks so he is not scrambling to set up turrets and bunkers to protect against the incoming lurker attack.

[image loading]
Engineering bay finishes and Iris starts building his comstat stations.

[image loading]
Jaedong's hydralisks are finished. He will be morphing them into lurkers shortly, but he wants to get them out of his natural and nearer the middle of the map. This serves two purposes: it shortens the amount of time it will take for his lurkers to reach Iris's natural once they finish and it makes it much less probable that Iris will scan them; though a scan in his main will still reveal the tech, Iris won't know the timing.

[image loading]
Lurker tech finishes and Jaedong begins to morph three lurkers in the middle of the map.

[image loading]
Iris finally scans Jaedong's man and learns what's going on. He will need to set up a bunker and a turret at his natural choke to defend the incoming attack.

[image loading]
Jaedong cleverly loops his zerglings up to the 12 o'clock expansion to set up a flank when he moves in with his lurkers.

[image loading]
Iris starts his bunker. The barracks at Iris's natural choke block him from placing it where he normally would, so he has to build further forward.

[image loading]
The awkward bunker placement plays right into Jaedong's hand as he sees it with his overlord and sends in the lings he placed at 12 to snipe the SCV and stop the bunker building.

[image loading]
Jaedong's lurkers finish just in time to support Jaedong's zerglings, sandwiching Iris's units between his own.

[image loading]
Caught on a bridge between lurkers and zerglings, the medics and marines have no hope of survival.

[image loading]
The wall at Iris's natural means Jaedong cannot walk directly in with his lurkers, but it also means that any reinforcements Iris might try to make are instantly impaled on lurker spines. Iris puts up a desperation bunker but Jaedong runs in zerglings and it quickly goes down.

[image loading]
With no units and no detection, Iris has no choice but to gg as Jaedong walks his lurkers into his mineral line.

Ok, that's all I've got for now. I don't feel that was particularly analytical, but I enjoyed watching and commenting on the game anyways, so hopefully I'll be able to keep doing this and learn more about how progamers play zerg!
punkideas
Profile Joined May 2010
United States20 Posts
March 22 2011 06:47 GMT
#2
If you haven't already, check out the old (BW) Day[9] dailies. Those are all great pro VOD strategic analyses.
FyRe_DragOn
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Canada2056 Posts
March 22 2011 06:52 GMT
#3
awesome initiative man, if u do one of zvp ill comment on it too
aka DragOn[NaS]
gongryong
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Korea (South)1430 Posts
March 22 2011 08:45 GMT
#4
Do some JvF or JvS or JvB man!
Just make sure JD wins them. Great effort
JAEDONG ÜBERBONJWA!
jazzbassmatt
Profile Joined August 2010
United States566 Posts
March 22 2011 08:52 GMT
#5
That was really nice analysis, actually. Not too complex and you seemed to understand and easily explain the most important parts of the game.
[sc1f]eonzerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Belgium6543 Posts
March 22 2011 12:28 GMT
#6
thx man,really enjoy MORE PLZ
shucklesors
Profile Joined May 2010
Singapore1176 Posts
March 22 2011 12:31 GMT
#7
On March 22 2011 17:45 gongryong wrote:
Do some JvF or JvS or JvB man!
Just make sure JD wins them. Great effort


LOL HAHA, YES I SECOND THIS.
On topic: I found it very simple and attractive, keep it this way if you're still doing more it's great! Thanks.
popzags
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Poland604 Posts
March 22 2011 12:57 GMT
#8
A good point to start from man, really nice analysis on a simple game. Next time, maybe try to pick a longer and more complicated struggle - figuring out the metagame and mindgame twists is essential to create decent strategic commentaries.
What what the the fuck fuck? That blew my mind so much, I doubled every word in the phrase 'What the fuck' to get: 'What what the the fuck fuck my what the the fuck fucking what did the drop dropship medivac where in the what in the hell?' - Day[9]
e_i_pi_1_0
Profile Joined September 2009
933 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-22 15:54:55
March 22 2011 13:10 GMT
#9
On March 22 2011 21:31 shucklesors wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2011 17:45 gongryong wrote:
Do some JvF or JvS or JvB man!
Just make sure JD wins them. Great effort


LOL HAHA, YES I SECOND THIS.
On topic: I found it very simple and attractive, keep it this way if you're still doing more it's great! Thanks.

I really liked this. I really liked the layout and how it was to the point.

If you plan to do more, a game I would like to see analyzed would be the JD vs Flash game on Tau Cross from WCG, JD vs Midas on Odd-Eye from MSL, or that JD vs Flash game on Rush Hour 3.
Jaedong and Hwaseung Oz fan.
leviathan400
Profile Joined November 2006
United Kingdom393 Posts
March 22 2011 13:24 GMT
#10
Nice work
:o
Astrapto
Profile Joined December 2010
United States69 Posts
March 22 2011 13:34 GMT
#11
Nice job dude, thanks for posting. But Iris spawned top left
ALLEN
thrslimde
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany57 Posts
March 22 2011 14:51 GMT
#12
Great analysis, really enjoyerd it. Do a protoss game next
Slardar
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada7593 Posts
March 22 2011 15:24 GMT
#13
Good work! This game was pretty open and shut case though. I'd recommend doing the EPIC JVStork which took an hour, but you might not live to finish it.
BarneyEX
Profile Joined March 2009
Malaysia98 Posts
March 22 2011 15:48 GMT
#14
good job man, keep up the hard work.
Navane
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Netherlands2747 Posts
March 22 2011 18:03 GMT
#15
Good read, insightful as well.
xxpack09
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States2160 Posts
March 22 2011 19:45 GMT
#16
Good post, I enjoyed the read
NEgroidZerg
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States244 Posts
March 22 2011 20:00 GMT
#17
this was a great read would love to see more
Yeah
GHOSTCLAW
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States17042 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-22 20:30:15
March 22 2011 20:29 GMT
#18

Iris chills out outside Jaedong's natural but does not attack. Four marines are not really viable against a sunken and zerglings, so I'm not really sure why he moved out at all. Maybe he was looking to intercept any scouts?


this is for pressure jaedong probably knew (either from overlord or ling scouts) that the five marines were moving out, and forced jaedong to make a sunken, which costs money+1 less drone. The other option for jaedong for defense is more lings, which isn't very larvae efficient. Moreover, the five marines would also allow for iris to scout an all-in ling attack off of 2 hatches, and prepare a response for it to save his main, throw up bunkers, and otherwise react properly.

Effectively, iris moved out in order to prevent jaedong from becoming too greedy, and to scout and add pressure. this concept will make a huge amount of sense to anyone who either watched day9 cast bw, and/or has seen some of his lessons from sc2.

great job though ^^
PhotographerLiquipedia. Drop me a pm if you've got questions/need help.
nbaker
Profile Joined July 2009
United States1341 Posts
March 22 2011 20:47 GMT
#19
On March 23 2011 05:29 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
Show nested quote +

Iris chills out outside Jaedong's natural but does not attack. Four marines are not really viable against a sunken and zerglings, so I'm not really sure why he moved out at all. Maybe he was looking to intercept any scouts?


this is for pressure jaedong probably knew (either from overlord or ling scouts) that the five marines were moving out, and forced jaedong to make a sunken, which costs money+1 less drone. The other option for jaedong for defense is more lings, which isn't very larvae efficient. Moreover, the five marines would also allow for iris to scout an all-in ling attack off of 2 hatches, and prepare a response for it to save his main, throw up bunkers, and otherwise react properly.

Effectively, iris moved out in order to prevent jaedong from becoming too greedy, and to scout and add pressure. this concept will make a huge amount of sense to anyone who either watched day9 cast bw, and/or has seen some of his lessons from sc2.

great job though ^^


It's my fault for not getting a shot of it, but Jaedong had already made a sunken to fend off the bunker rush earlier in the game, so the marines didn't really force Jaedong to do anything more as far as I could tell.

Thanks for the feedback everyone! I'm really glad you guys liked it. I do plan on doing more and maybe trying to analyze some games that are more exciting than this one was (though from a learning perspective I've heard that easy victories are the most instructive). I'll definitely take into account any games you guys recommend since I was basically just clicking at random on TLPD for this one.
blubbdavid
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Switzerland2412 Posts
March 22 2011 21:07 GMT
#20
I freaking love it. More JD!! Especially against Flash.
What do you desire? Money? Glory? Power? Revenge? Or something that surpasses all other? Whatever you desire - that is here. Tower of God ¦¦Nutella, drink of the Gods
TheNessman
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States4158 Posts
March 22 2011 21:09 GMT
#21
Really nice report! good job, more of these would be awesome!
~~! youtube.com/xmungam1 !~~
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
March 22 2011 21:34 GMT
#22
wowow really nice job! keep it up!
Writer
Taekwon
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8155 Posts
March 22 2011 21:37 GMT
#23
Very nicely done!
▲ ▲ ▲
swanized
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Canada2480 Posts
March 22 2011 22:48 GMT
#24
solid analysis but I find it hard to comment considering the strategy you analyzed, try doing something thatl eads to a more complex mid/late-game next time^^
Writer
Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10810 Posts
March 22 2011 23:57 GMT
#25
On March 23 2011 05:47 nbaker wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 23 2011 05:29 GHOSTCLAW wrote:

Iris chills out outside Jaedong's natural but does not attack. Four marines are not really viable against a sunken and zerglings, so I'm not really sure why he moved out at all. Maybe he was looking to intercept any scouts?


this is for pressure jaedong probably knew (either from overlord or ling scouts) that the five marines were moving out, and forced jaedong to make a sunken, which costs money+1 less drone. The other option for jaedong for defense is more lings, which isn't very larvae efficient. Moreover, the five marines would also allow for iris to scout an all-in ling attack off of 2 hatches, and prepare a response for it to save his main, throw up bunkers, and otherwise react properly.

Effectively, iris moved out in order to prevent jaedong from becoming too greedy, and to scout and add pressure. this concept will make a huge amount of sense to anyone who either watched day9 cast bw, and/or has seen some of his lessons from sc2.

great job though ^^


It's my fault for not getting a shot of it, but Jaedong had already made a sunken to fend off the bunker rush earlier in the game, so the marines didn't really force Jaedong to do anything more as far as I could tell.

Thanks for the feedback everyone! I'm really glad you guys liked it. I do plan on doing more and maybe trying to analyze some games that are more exciting than this one was (though from a learning perspective I've heard that easy victories are the most instructive). I'll definitely take into account any games you guys recommend since I was basically just clicking at random on TLPD for this one.

Hahaha "4 marines is not really viable to kill a sunken and 4 lings" no, no it is not Intercepting scouts and just generally knowing he had map control at that instance was enough. If he were afraid of a ling-all-in he would have just left an SCV or something there (but he walled so who the hell would ling all-in? Even if it's not 'tight' it's still impossible to attack at that stage). Purpose of those marines is just to keep JD in his main so that he can't take a free expo When he moved them back it was because enough time had passed that he didn't want to just lose them for nothing. JD isn't gonna make lings just to hope there's marines for him to kill, but he is eventually going to get lings anyway.
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
Armathai
Profile Joined October 2007
1023 Posts
March 22 2011 23:59 GMT
#26
Really great idea, love the screenshots and stuff.
As suggested by someone previously, looking at JD vs Flash on Tau Cross from WCG would be great, because, we have Vods and the replay of this game, making analysis much easier!
Besides the fact that the game is epic and JD wins!
Looking for ArcticCerebrate formerly from @USEast
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
March 23 2011 00:04 GMT
#27
On March 23 2011 07:48 swanized wrote:
solid analysis but I find it hard to comment considering the strategy you analyzed, try doing something thatl eads to a more complex mid/late-game next time^^

yeah I agree. It was well done (a VOD with commentary would be kind of cool too), but I was hoping for a longer game with more decision making from the players.
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
Modesty00
Profile Joined November 2010
Bulgaria262 Posts
March 23 2011 01:07 GMT
#28
On March 22 2011 15:47 punkideas wrote:
If you haven't already, check out the old (BW) Day[9] dailies. Those are all great pro VOD strategic analyses.

I found only sc2 so pls link
A. I. Bots 1x1 https://youtu.be/2iff34KYfMg
Tomken
Profile Joined January 2010
Norway1144 Posts
March 23 2011 02:13 GMT
#29
On March 23 2011 10:07 Modesty00 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2011 15:47 punkideas wrote:
If you haven't already, check out the old (BW) Day[9] dailies. Those are all great pro VOD strategic analyses.

I found only sc2 so pls link

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=104154
MBCGame HERO FIGHTING!!!~
nbaker
Profile Joined July 2009
United States1341 Posts
March 23 2011 02:35 GMT
#30
On March 23 2011 09:04 Grobyc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 23 2011 07:48 swanized wrote:
solid analysis but I find it hard to comment considering the strategy you analyzed, try doing something thatl eads to a more complex mid/late-game next time^^

yeah I agree. It was well done (a VOD with commentary would be kind of cool too), but I was hoping for a longer game with more decision making from the players.


Ok, I'll try one next game. I don't really feel competent to provide a comprehensive analysis of a long high level game but if you guys are willing to help out by correcting and adding to my analysis, I do agree it will be more useful. Thanks for the feedback!
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
March 23 2011 02:40 GMT
#31
Of course. Sharing your thoughts with others helps you learn much faster than keeping to yourself.
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
swanized
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Canada2480 Posts
March 23 2011 02:50 GMT
#32
On March 23 2011 11:35 nbaker wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 23 2011 09:04 Grobyc wrote:
On March 23 2011 07:48 swanized wrote:
solid analysis but I find it hard to comment considering the strategy you analyzed, try doing something thatl eads to a more complex mid/late-game next time^^

yeah I agree. It was well done (a VOD with commentary would be kind of cool too), but I was hoping for a longer game with more decision making from the players.


Ok, I'll try one next game. I don't really feel competent to provide a comprehensive analysis of a long high level game but if you guys are willing to help out by correcting and adding to my analysis, I do agree it will be more useful. Thanks for the feedback!


yeah please do! it can only help you out!
Writer
Fiel
Profile Joined March 2010
United States587 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-23 07:14:36
March 23 2011 07:07 GMT
#33
Hope I'm not pissing on nbaker's parade here, but this looked so fun I decided to do one myself.

I really don't play Brood War, I just love to watch it. Doing this analysis makes the game so much more clear. If I had to guess how good my analysis is, I'd say I'd be a D or D+. I do play high plat Z in SC2.

Please correct me if I make mistakes!

+ Show Spoiler [Flash vs. RorO @ Fortress SE] +

MAP:
Fortress SE

PLAYERS:
Flash (T) @ 9
RorO (Z) @ 3

VOD:


[image loading]
Z opens with 12 hatch 11 pool 10 gas.

[image loading]
T opens with 1 depot 1 rax wall in. I'm not really sure if that's ling tight or not. Standard ZvT so far. But Flash is at a small disadvantage in these positions. Z is cross map and his marines spawn outside the wall - a minor annoyance for a standard 1 rax FE build.

[image loading]
Flash scouts at 12 and then at 3 to find his opponent. He sees the lair timing. It's absolutely critical that Flash keeps this SCV alive until lair finishes so he can find what tech path Z is going to choose. This will also save on scans if he can keep the SCV alive and it means he won't have to sacrifice his vulture later on (also textbook ZvT). Keeping the SCV here will also force Z to build his tech choice at the natural thus limiting his options.

[image loading]
After scouting a 2 hatch lair, Flash doesn't feel comfortable building the CC directly at the natural (could be ling all in), so he constructs it inside the wall and gets his fact up simultaneously. He builds a vulture and sends it west only to meet a sunken.

[image loading]
Flash sees the lair complete and, not noticing any tech in the main, scouts around the sunken at the natural and sees the spire timing. He also sees that RorO created a third hatch in between his natural and main. His SCV dies shortly after returning to Z's main. Note that even if his SCV had died, Flash could have suicided his vulture to see the Spire.

[image loading]
With no ling all ins on the way, Flash feels safe expanding to his natural and continuing with his normal anti 2 hatch muta.

[image loading]
After RorO has his spire done and mutalisks on the way, he creates a hydra den and begins lurker aspect.

[image loading]
RorO's muta harass is largely ineffective. Flash already has missile turrets everywhere and marines guarding where missile turrets aren't. All RorO can do is pick off stray SCVs. All those mutalisks only pick off about 4 SCVs. Flash is way ahead at this point having successfully blocked the harass. RorO never takes a third and instead creates more lurkers and lings.

[image loading]
Once Flash knows he's perfectly safe from the muta harass, he pushes out with his first marines. RorO's goal is to now pick off the entire marine assault. The best way to do this is to make sure that you only attack marines while they are perpendicular to the mutalisks. Unfortunately, RorO never gets this chance.

[image loading]
Instead, he sneaks behind the marines and burrows his lurkers in the middle of the map in an attempt to destroy reinforcements. Although he kills a few reinforcements, Flash retreats his forward marines and sandwiches the lurkers. Flash should feel thankful that he pulled his marines back. His two tanks were almost sniped by the mutalisks until his forward marines were able to save one tank from destruction.

[image loading]
After his lurkers become largely useless, RorO then threatens backstabbing. However, Flash has so many marines that stimmed marines again sandwich the lurkers between their guns and the souther wall. RorO is crushed and is unable to backstab effectively. While his other lurker/ling forces are being destroyed, RorO sneaks out more lurker/lings and hides them in the north.

Of course, the backstabbing here isn't attempting to do any damage. RorO is trying to buy time so he can get defilers out to stop the inevitable marine/siege force crushing his base. However, Flash is forcing RorO to make a difficult decision - Tech or Army? RorO can't do both, and this puts him in a difficult position.

Hiding the lurker/ling in the north is a good option for RorO. Now he finally has a choice. Should he attempt to sandwich Flash outside of his natural OR should he actually perform the backstab?

[image loading]
He's going to have to make a decision soon. Flash is shelling the natural, and four sunkens will fall very quickly.

[image loading]
In an act of desperation, RorO decides to all in his opponent with lurker/ling/muta.

[image loading]
However, because Flash was able to save so many scans from the excellent scouting beforehand, he was able to scan and kill every lurker but 3. Even though these lurkers are a pest, Flash knows that RorO doesn't have a third considering the number of forces he created. All he has to do is push and win.

[image loading]
RorO is able to have more lurkers to defend his natural, but it's too little too late. Flash has already broken the front and there's little in his way to stop him.

[image loading]
Although RorO was able to kill lots of SCVs, it's inconsequential to the game. He already lost even before this act of desperation happened, and Flash is hardly concerned.

[image loading]
Notice no defiler mound. Zerg taps out.

Throughout the game there was no point in which there was any doubt Flash would succeed past the 4 minute mark. I'd call this game domination.










gongryong
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Korea (South)1430 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-23 08:11:39
March 23 2011 08:09 GMT
#34
On March 23 2011 16:07 Fiel wrote:
Hope I'm not pissing on nbaker's parade here, but this looked so fun I decided to do one myself.

I really don't play Brood War, I just love to watch it. Doing this analysis makes the game so much more clear. If I had to guess how good my analysis is, I'd say I'd be a D or D+. I do play high plat Z in SC2.

Please correct me if I make mistakes!

+ Show Spoiler [Flash vs. RorO @ Fortress SE] +

MAP:
Fortress SE

PLAYERS:
Flash (T) @ 9
RorO (Z) @ 3

VOD:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpMpeiAC0l0

[image loading]
Z opens with 12 hatch 11 pool 10 gas.

[image loading]
T opens with 1 depot 1 rax wall in. I'm not really sure if that's ling tight or not. Standard ZvT so far. But Flash is at a small disadvantage in these positions. Z is cross map and his marines spawn outside the wall - a minor annoyance for a standard 1 rax FE build.

[image loading]
Flash scouts at 12 and then at 3 to find his opponent. He sees the lair timing. It's absolutely critical that Flash keeps this SCV alive until lair finishes so he can find what tech path Z is going to choose. This will also save on scans if he can keep the SCV alive and it means he won't have to sacrifice his vulture later on (also textbook ZvT). Keeping the SCV here will also force Z to build his tech choice at the natural thus limiting his options.

[image loading]
After scouting a 2 hatch lair, Flash doesn't feel comfortable building the CC directly at the natural (could be ling all in), so he constructs it inside the wall and gets his fact up simultaneously. He builds a vulture and sends it west only to meet a sunken.

[image loading]
Flash sees the lair complete and, not noticing any tech in the main, scouts around the sunken at the natural and sees the spire timing. He also sees that RorO created a third hatch in between his natural and main. His SCV dies shortly after returning to Z's main. Note that even if his SCV had died, Flash could have suicided his vulture to see the Spire.

[image loading]
With no ling all ins on the way, Flash feels safe expanding to his natural and continuing with his normal anti 2 hatch muta.

[image loading]
After RorO has his spire done and mutalisks on the way, he creates a hydra den and begins lurker aspect.

[image loading]
RorO's muta harass is largely ineffective. Flash already has missile turrets everywhere and marines guarding where missile turrets aren't. All RorO can do is pick off stray SCVs. All those mutalisks only pick off about 4 SCVs. Flash is way ahead at this point having successfully blocked the harass. RorO never takes a third and instead creates more lurkers and lings.

[image loading]
Once Flash knows he's perfectly safe from the muta harass, he pushes out with his first marines. RorO's goal is to now pick off the entire marine assault. The best way to do this is to make sure that you only attack marines while they are perpendicular to the mutalisks. Unfortunately, RorO never gets this chance.

[image loading]
Instead, he sneaks behind the marines and burrows his lurkers in the middle of the map in an attempt to destroy reinforcements. Although he kills a few reinforcements, Flash retreats his forward marines and sandwiches the lurkers. Flash should feel thankful that he pulled his marines back. His two tanks were almost sniped by the mutalisks until his forward marines were able to save one tank from destruction.

[image loading]
After his lurkers become largely useless, RorO then threatens backstabbing. However, Flash has so many marines that stimmed marines again sandwich the lurkers between their guns and the souther wall. RorO is crushed and is unable to backstab effectively. While his other lurker/ling forces are being destroyed, RorO sneaks out more lurker/lings and hides them in the north.

Of course, the backstabbing here isn't attempting to do any damage. RorO is trying to buy time so he can get defilers out to stop the inevitable marine/siege force crushing his base. However, Flash is forcing RorO to make a difficult decision - Tech or Army? RorO can't do both, and this puts him in a difficult position.

Hiding the lurker/ling in the north is a good option for RorO. Now he finally has a choice. Should he attempt to sandwich Flash outside of his natural OR should he actually perform the backstab?

[image loading]
He's going to have to make a decision soon. Flash is shelling the natural, and four sunkens will fall very quickly.

[image loading]
In an act of desperation, RorO decides to all in his opponent with lurker/ling/muta.

[image loading]
However, because Flash was able to save so many scans from the excellent scouting beforehand, he was able to scan and kill every lurker but 3. Even though these lurkers are a pest, Flash knows that RorO doesn't have a third considering the number of forces he created. All he has to do is push and win.

[image loading]
RorO is able to have more lurkers to defend his natural, but it's too little too late. Flash has already broken the front and there's little in his way to stop him.

[image loading]
Although RorO was able to kill lots of SCVs, it's inconsequential to the game. He already lost even before this act of desperation happened, and Flash is hardly concerned.

[image loading]
Notice no defiler mound. Zerg taps out.

Throughout the game there was no point in which there was any doubt Flash would succeed past the 4 minute mark. I'd call this game domination.












LOL. Nice work man! We need more, not less, of this!
BUT please next screen shot analysis like this, please limit to JD win games! this is a JD thread after all
JAEDONG ÜBERBONJWA!
orangeshines
Profile Joined September 2008
United Kingdom202 Posts
March 23 2011 12:37 GMT
#35
Very well written, nice work. Thank you very much for the effort
nbaker
Profile Joined July 2009
United States1341 Posts
March 23 2011 15:30 GMT
#36
On March 23 2011 17:09 gongryong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 23 2011 16:07 Fiel wrote:
Hope I'm not pissing on nbaker's parade here, but this looked so fun I decided to do one myself.

I really don't play Brood War, I just love to watch it. Doing this analysis makes the game so much more clear. If I had to guess how good my analysis is, I'd say I'd be a D or D+. I do play high plat Z in SC2.

Please correct me if I make mistakes!

+ Show Spoiler [Flash vs. RorO @ Fortress SE] +

MAP:
Fortress SE

PLAYERS:
Flash (T) @ 9
RorO (Z) @ 3

VOD:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpMpeiAC0l0

[image loading]
Z opens with 12 hatch 11 pool 10 gas.

[image loading]
T opens with 1 depot 1 rax wall in. I'm not really sure if that's ling tight or not. Standard ZvT so far. But Flash is at a small disadvantage in these positions. Z is cross map and his marines spawn outside the wall - a minor annoyance for a standard 1 rax FE build.

[image loading]
Flash scouts at 12 and then at 3 to find his opponent. He sees the lair timing. It's absolutely critical that Flash keeps this SCV alive until lair finishes so he can find what tech path Z is going to choose. This will also save on scans if he can keep the SCV alive and it means he won't have to sacrifice his vulture later on (also textbook ZvT). Keeping the SCV here will also force Z to build his tech choice at the natural thus limiting his options.

[image loading]
After scouting a 2 hatch lair, Flash doesn't feel comfortable building the CC directly at the natural (could be ling all in), so he constructs it inside the wall and gets his fact up simultaneously. He builds a vulture and sends it west only to meet a sunken.

[image loading]
Flash sees the lair complete and, not noticing any tech in the main, scouts around the sunken at the natural and sees the spire timing. He also sees that RorO created a third hatch in between his natural and main. His SCV dies shortly after returning to Z's main. Note that even if his SCV had died, Flash could have suicided his vulture to see the Spire.

[image loading]
With no ling all ins on the way, Flash feels safe expanding to his natural and continuing with his normal anti 2 hatch muta.

[image loading]
After RorO has his spire done and mutalisks on the way, he creates a hydra den and begins lurker aspect.

[image loading]
RorO's muta harass is largely ineffective. Flash already has missile turrets everywhere and marines guarding where missile turrets aren't. All RorO can do is pick off stray SCVs. All those mutalisks only pick off about 4 SCVs. Flash is way ahead at this point having successfully blocked the harass. RorO never takes a third and instead creates more lurkers and lings.

[image loading]
Once Flash knows he's perfectly safe from the muta harass, he pushes out with his first marines. RorO's goal is to now pick off the entire marine assault. The best way to do this is to make sure that you only attack marines while they are perpendicular to the mutalisks. Unfortunately, RorO never gets this chance.

[image loading]
Instead, he sneaks behind the marines and burrows his lurkers in the middle of the map in an attempt to destroy reinforcements. Although he kills a few reinforcements, Flash retreats his forward marines and sandwiches the lurkers. Flash should feel thankful that he pulled his marines back. His two tanks were almost sniped by the mutalisks until his forward marines were able to save one tank from destruction.

[image loading]
After his lurkers become largely useless, RorO then threatens backstabbing. However, Flash has so many marines that stimmed marines again sandwich the lurkers between their guns and the souther wall. RorO is crushed and is unable to backstab effectively. While his other lurker/ling forces are being destroyed, RorO sneaks out more lurker/lings and hides them in the north.

Of course, the backstabbing here isn't attempting to do any damage. RorO is trying to buy time so he can get defilers out to stop the inevitable marine/siege force crushing his base. However, Flash is forcing RorO to make a difficult decision - Tech or Army? RorO can't do both, and this puts him in a difficult position.

Hiding the lurker/ling in the north is a good option for RorO. Now he finally has a choice. Should he attempt to sandwich Flash outside of his natural OR should he actually perform the backstab?

[image loading]
He's going to have to make a decision soon. Flash is shelling the natural, and four sunkens will fall very quickly.

[image loading]
In an act of desperation, RorO decides to all in his opponent with lurker/ling/muta.

[image loading]
However, because Flash was able to save so many scans from the excellent scouting beforehand, he was able to scan and kill every lurker but 3. Even though these lurkers are a pest, Flash knows that RorO doesn't have a third considering the number of forces he created. All he has to do is push and win.

[image loading]
RorO is able to have more lurkers to defend his natural, but it's too little too late. Flash has already broken the front and there's little in his way to stop him.

[image loading]
Although RorO was able to kill lots of SCVs, it's inconsequential to the game. He already lost even before this act of desperation happened, and Flash is hardly concerned.

[image loading]
Notice no defiler mound. Zerg taps out.

Throughout the game there was no point in which there was any doubt Flash would succeed past the 4 minute mark. I'd call this game domination.












LOL. Nice work man! We need more, not less, of this!
BUT please next screen shot analysis like this, please limit to JD win games! this is a JD thread after all


Thanks Fiel, this is great! I certainly don't mind you posting your analysis here, but why not start a new topic? It would let more people see it and comment on it.
AfecksN
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom53 Posts
March 23 2011 19:21 GMT
#37
Really nice analysis; never clicked before to me the lack of scouting with a bunker rush using first scv, also I loved the detail on the positioning of the flank (army positioning for lurker-ling has always been a weak point of my play :3).

The only thing I'd say to be careful of is assumptions; what made you think he wasn't planning 2hatch lurk from beginning and that he was planning 3hat muta? (I haven't yet watched the vod btw)

But that's a small (maybe invalid) niggle; overall a really nice analysis with attention both to micro and macro.
BW Commentator~ http://www.youtube.com/user/AfecksN
Normal
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
12:30
King of the Hill #214
CranKy Ducklings82
Liquipedia
WardiTV Invitational
12:00
!TR Invitational
Reynor vs MaxPax
ByuN vs ClemLIVE!
WardiTV1633
IndyStarCraft 261
Rex168
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 261
Rex 168
RotterdaM 124
ProTech70
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 50499
Rain 4826
Horang2 1654
Jaedong 1479
Flash 1418
EffOrt 1042
Stork 446
actioN 410
Soulkey 366
Snow 292
[ Show more ]
Mini 245
hero 169
Last 99
Bonyth 99
Mong 58
sorry 56
sSak 54
Barracks 52
ToSsGirL 45
GoRush 32
yabsab 15
Backho 13
Terrorterran 12
zelot 9
HiyA 7
ivOry 3
Shine 2
Dota 2
qojqva2393
XcaliburYe359
BabyKnight43
Counter-Strike
allub245
markeloff222
edward105
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor185
Trikslyr48
Other Games
B2W.Neo942
C9.Mang0475
crisheroes430
DeMusliM389
Lowko302
ArmadaUGS169
Hui .156
QueenE48
NarutO 18
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 951
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH282
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 4069
• WagamamaTV700
League of Legends
• Nemesis5682
• Jankos2010
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
10h 11m
RSL Revival
20h 11m
Reynor vs Scarlett
ShoWTimE vs Classic
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 1h
SOOP
1d 19h
Cure vs Zoun
SC Evo League
1d 22h
Road to EWC
2 days
SOOP Global
2 days
Future vs MaNa
Harstem vs Cham
BSL: ProLeague
2 days
Sziky vs JDConan
Cross vs MadiNho
Hawk vs Bonyth
Circuito Brasileiro de…
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
Road to EWC
3 days
BSL: ProLeague
3 days
UltrA vs TBD
Dewalt vs TBD
Replay Cast
4 days
Online Event
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #3 - GSC
2025 GSL S2
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
BLAST Open Fall 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.