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Papua New Guinea152 Posts
Hello All. To begin with, I finally made D+ on iccup last season, but so far this season I tried to use a different strategy: cheese every game. I heard somewhere that it's possible to reach at least C+ by only cheesing every single game, and I am willing to test that personally.
So far it hasn't been going to well, and I only have 29% win rate using all three races. I would like to compile a list of all cheeses known in the BW universe so I can use them in all my games. Like I said, I am using terran, zerg, and protoss so I can use every possible cheese known to mankind and make my opponents facepalm.
Needless to say, I need your help. So far, according to Liquipedia, I have:
Proxy gateways/robotics facility/whatever. Used in PvP, PvT(?)
4 pool. ZvT especially, also good in ZvZ and ZvP(sometimes?)
BBS (rax rax supply). TvZ especially I guess
Bunker Rush. TvZ(with early hatch), TvP(early nexus). Might not technically be a cheese, but sneaky enough to make my opponent facepalm(I hope).
...
So if you could kindly propose more cheese that I can implement into my arsenal, that would be greatly appreciated. Kindly supply your cheese suggestion and matchups where applicable, and additionally any other relevant information as necessary.
k thx
EDIT: bcuz i am trying to enjoy the diversity of cheese and humiliate my opponents in as many different ways as possible, the more cheeses i can get the better. i also don't care about any kind of mid-game transitions because the whole point (and fun) of cheesing is to win the game in the beginning with an outrageous all-in. i would prefer to make the cheese as convincing and deceptive as possible, and i am willing to sacrifice, econ, gameplan, macro, and (read: all that other useless stuff). if the cheese doesn't work out i have no problem with licking my chops and gg'ing.
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Proxy gates, BBS and 5 pool are all you need. (They're the best cheese in all matchups)
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2 gate DT, 4 gate goon.
Dts are nice and cheezy in PvP. And you can actually transition out of it
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I don't view DTs as cheese in PvP. You can just throw up a forge at ~the same time as your DTs and add cannons at your nat (expoing of course) while adding storm and high templars. So even if your DTs fail (and at low levels your DTs will very often give you free wins) you can transition into macro play using psi storm if he goes allin on you.
PvP on HBR is a crazy cheesefest, there's like 7 places to place proxy gateways and then theres the "cannoning your opponents choke" thing that a lot of people like to do.
Uh, when 4pooling in ZvZ make sure to bring 1-2 drones to make offensive sunken colonies. 2hat/3hat hydra allin can work vs P, but you HAVE to be good at denying ANY scouting with speedlings
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Cannon rush, 4gate. 7pylon 8/9 gate rush with 4 probes vs zerg.
Fake fast expand to 4gate vs z
EDIT: 7pylon 8/9gate to pylon/batteryshield zergs expo
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A D+ player who doesn't know any cheeses? Odd. Either way:
3 hatch hydra bust ZvP
1 hatch lurker ZvT
2 hatch lurker drop ZvP / ZvT
gas steal --> reaver --> elevator (altho this requires some sick micro to pull off...watch snow vs lomo on matchpoint) PvT
1 Base 4 gate all in PvT
2 Base carrier PvT
10/15 PvT on rampless maps
BBS TvZ
Bunker rush TvZ
2 Proxy facts TvZ / TvP
3 fact (usually 1 proxied) TvP
Sparks Rush TvZ
Ay-u-mi TvZ
3 port wraith w/ cloak TvT
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Korea (South)11579 Posts
TvP wall off, and if he doesn't get his probe in, make 3 barracks, and mass marines. send a 2nd scv to build an e-bay near his base (that he wont scout) and lift off the ebay over his minerals, right click all of ur scv to his minerals (to make it so he can't stay above ramp) and attack with all of ur scvs/marines + add bunkers n shit. if he doesn't reaver/dt u win 90% of the time unless u suck with micro
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I think you'll get further with more strategic all-in plays than with straight up cheeses. Just find some Mamon replays and you'll see how it's done.
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9 hatch Zv anything
Hatch at natural at 9
pool at 9
gas at 9
overlord at 9
put 3 drones on gas asap to get 100 gas, then pull 2
as soon as pool pops, make 6 lings
ling speed
18/18 lings
gogogogogogo
you can then transition by making either a lair or overlord as you attack.
then you can do whatever you want
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=107395¤tpage=66#1316
see following argument and aware--'s rage for credentials
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Germany / USA16648 Posts
On October 06 2010 12:53 SubtleArt wrote:
A D+ player who doesn't know any cheeses? Odd. Either way:
3 hatch hydra bust ZvP
1 hatch lurker ZvT
2 hatch lurker drop ZvP / ZvT
gas steal --> reaver --> elevator (altho this requires some sick micro to pull off...watch snow vs lomo on matchpoint) PvT
1 Base 4 gate all in PvT
2 Base carrier PvT
10/15 PvT on rampless maps
BBS TvZ
Bunker rush TvZ
2 Proxy facts TvZ / TvP
3 fact (usually 1 proxied) TvP
Sparks Rush TvZ
Ay-u-mi TvZ
3 port wraith w/ cloak TvT
this is a joke. right?
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On October 06 2010 13:13 Xenocide_Knight wrote:9 hatch Zv anything Hatch at natural at 9 pool at 9 gas at 9 overlord at 9 put 3 drones on gas asap to get 100 gas, then pull 2 as soon as pool pops, make 6 lings ling speed 18/18 lings gogogogogogo you can then transition by making either a lair or overlord as you attack. then you can do whatever you want http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=107395¤tpage=66#1316see following argument and aware--'s rage for credentials
Rofl, I was the victim of this, and I can guarantee that it works like a charm vs a noobie who has never encountered it before. ^__^
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You can't cheese through C+. I highly doubt you can even cheese through C-. Better players scout, and they will know when somethings wrong. Not to mention just cause a cheese goes unscouted doesn't mean it works depending on the micro.
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In my experience in Blue Storm, it isn't uncommon for players to forget to keep an eye on the huge proxy area in their base. However, the downside is that your opponent will certainly scout your base, as you can't block your main with probes/drones/scvs, and if your BO even slightly smells like cheese, the jig will be up.
Also, while this may be a bit tangential to the OP, one very strong indicator that your opponent is about to pull some shit on a 3+ player map is if his scout comes into your base then quickly leaves, as if your opponent only wants to know where you are. In most games that I've played where my opponent does this, I send a probe out to my nat, and lo and behold, there's a pylon or a barracks going up >_>.
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I think a better method to get you to higher ranks than just "cheese more" is to use the same build over and over - whether or not it is cheese.
This way, you learn all of the small nuances and timings associated with the build. You can change orders slightly to fit your preference. You know exactly when you are strongest and when you are weakest. You know when you should transition out of your cheese right away. You prepare for map features and scouting paths.
One build I have used like this is 12 pool speedling. It's flexible, so I can be aggressive while still macroing. It's cheesy enough for iCCup, safe against (some) other cheeses, and will net me easy wins ZvP and ZvT when they don't scout/react properly.
I know that if the T has gone FE, he will never be able to defend it unless he gets alot of SCVs below his ramp. I know that if the P has gone FE, he needs 2 cannons and several probes well positions to stop me from running by. I know that if a T goes 2 rax, I can make my lings and macro up, waiting for an opportunity to kill his early rines, but not expecting on. If the P has gone 1 base tech I should cancel my speed and stop making lings ASAP to transition to 3 hatch.
I have the build orders in the back of my head depending on how I follow up. mass ling/low econ, 2 hatch muta, 3 hatch muta, 3 hatch spire -> 5 hatch hydra.
So this could be seen as just cheesing over and over, but whether or not that's the case, you're going to win more games and become a better player when you practice specific builds.
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Korea (South)11579 Posts
you can also just PM KamuL (isai) about how to cheese. thats all he does lol
i <3 u isai
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bcuz i am trying to enjoy the diversity of cheese and humiliate my opponents
Stove.
Stove every game.
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Since when the hell is bunker rushing a 12 nexus cheese? Im pretty sure thats the most standard thing in the world -_-
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On October 06 2010 13:30 Carnac wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 12:53 SubtleArt wrote:
A D+ player who doesn't know any cheeses? Odd. Either way:
3 hatch hydra bust ZvP
1 hatch lurker ZvT
2 hatch lurker drop ZvP / ZvT
gas steal --> reaver --> elevator (altho this requires some sick micro to pull off...watch snow vs lomo on matchpoint) PvT
1 Base 4 gate all in PvT
2 Base carrier PvT
10/15 PvT on rampless maps
BBS TvZ
Bunker rush TvZ
2 Proxy facts TvZ / TvP
3 fact (usually 1 proxied) TvP
Sparks Rush TvZ
Ay-u-mi TvZ
3 port wraith w/ cloak TvT this is a joke. right?
Why would it be?
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show 2 gate vs terran, but proxy 2 more gateways.
bash in the front of his base with 4 gate goons if he is going FE
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srsly, getting to c- is so much easier if you just follow a solid build and learn to adapt.
as long as you have dicipline, getting stable c- should be no problems (remember, c- is just lucky d+)
OnT: An incredibly potent cheese in zvp that's really easy to remember and one that no protoss seems to recognize is as follows:
*get 3 hatcheries just like normal (the usual response to forge-expand)
*get gas at normal timing and upgrade to lair
*next 50 gas goes into hydra den
*until now, you have only pumped drones and a few zerglings to block the probe so you can afford
to build another gas at your nat, you'll really need it for upgrades
*upgrade hydra range and overlord speed once lair finishes
*upgrade hydra speed/lurker and overlord drop
this build has it all, i didn't start using it until i was b- or something but i've actually never lost with it, mostly cause no one recognize it and they always spam cannons at front thinking, "fucking noob, dont' show your hydras so fast lololol" and then the drop in the main comes and they are dead...
if your opponent builds alot of speedzealots a little earlier than usual, you may need to upgrade lurker aspect earlier than normal but that's allright. how do i know if he builds speedzealots you ask? this is something you really need to now in zvp so a good tip: keep your overlord in his base and if you scout 2+ gates and/or no early second gas, hell most likely go speedzeals.
now if your drop kinda fails somehow (i dunno how, corsairs maybe?) then you won't be that far behind, sure your economy will be bad and you will only have 3 hatches, but you'll also have drop and lurkers so harassing is easy, and he'll most likely not have observers so you can just contain him as well and build up an economy with 5-6 hatches.
dude, just try this build.. its like psi-storming zerglins, only the reverse (you're the templar that is) so easy to win at red and yellow levels with it.
GL and have fun feeling imba
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TvZ: 8rax -> vulture -> 2port wraith. it will wreck any bad zerg if you have any semblance of micro. another one i like is the Stylish roflstrat. BBS is decent too.
TvT: BBS, or 6rax proxy -> 2port
TvP: Stylish roflstrat actually works in tvp too, else try a joyo rush with a lot of scvs if you want it to be an allin. bbs is pretty bad in tvp but two early rax with ~10-12 scvs and rallied marines does wonders.
ZvT: 4pool, 9pool speed -> 1 hatch lurker
ZvP: 4/5/6pool, 2 hatch lurker drop, 2/3 hatch hydra/ling allin
ZvZ: 4pool. anything else isn't cheese really
PvT: a million cheeses that are all strong. DT rush, proxy gates inbase, manner proxy gates, proxy reaver, bulldog, speedzeal timing attack, ... etc
PvP: proxy gates/dt rush
PvZ: proxy gates, cannon rush expo -> standard
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9 hatch isn't always a cheesy opening though..... I had great success using it as an anti-cheese build rather than a cheese build.....
But, damn, using the cheesy 9 hatch opening and getting 18 speedlings that fast is pretty freaking powerful.
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There was a topic a while back that Random_Korean started in which he just took ideas and ran with it. I love things like this, and last post on the back page that's a nice build and all but he said he was doing this for cheese. You came off condescending as all hell over something like a lurker drop build. I don't know if that was the intention, but nevertheless.
I don't understand why so many times someone is willing to go beyond the box and just have some fun and often it turns into telling him/her why and how NOT to do that.
Then again, you're already running into the problem that if it's early pressure or even just something that needs to be scouted against in order to defend, half the time someone will say cheese. I'm of the opinion that at high level play, cheese is a word that shouldn't even be used. A build is a build is a build is a build. Skill takes over after a certain point and if you can win with something that shouldn't necessarily, then you deserve every bit of credit for playing at optimal level.
That being said...
Good luck with this TC!
You should make replays of each one so we can check them out!
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If you play on destination as Z, you can send out one of your first four drones and go straight to the opponent's base, hug the wall and then 9 hatch in the area furthest away from their CC/Nexus/Hatch. Proceed to sunken his base :D
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The best and easiest cheese TvP is 1 base MM and 2-3 tanks with siege mode.Opening is standart but after factory u make academy and don't stop make marines.When u have 2-3 tanks with 8-12 marines and 2-3 medics wiht stim and siege,then push him and this is gg(i was beaten with this strategy only with good micro dark rush).I'm C- terran and i beat a lot of B- B and B+ protoss players
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Theres a legend of someone who made it to B- only using BBS build in every match up
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On October 06 2010 12:53 SubtleArt wrote:
A D+ player who doesn't know any cheeses? Odd. Either way:
3 hatch hydra bust ZvP
1 hatch lurker ZvT
2 hatch lurker drop ZvP / ZvT
gas steal --> reaver --> elevator (altho this requires some sick micro to pull off...watch snow vs lomo on matchpoint) PvT
1 Base 4 gate all in PvT
2 Base carrier PvT
10/15 PvT on rampless maps
BBS TvZ
Bunker rush TvZ
2 Proxy facts TvZ / TvP
3 fact (usually 1 proxied) TvP
Sparks Rush TvZ
Ay-u-mi TvZ
3 port wraith w/ cloak TvT
3 port wraith? Its 2 port wraith. You don't have enough gas to 3port. And by the time you do have enough gas for 3port any terran who loses to that is just plain sad.
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On October 08 2010 02:50 Ocular wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 12:53 SubtleArt wrote:
A D+ player who doesn't know any cheeses? Odd. Either way:
3 hatch hydra bust ZvP
1 hatch lurker ZvT
2 hatch lurker drop ZvP / ZvT
gas steal --> reaver --> elevator (altho this requires some sick micro to pull off...watch snow vs lomo on matchpoint) PvT
1 Base 4 gate all in PvT
2 Base carrier PvT
10/15 PvT on rampless maps
BBS TvZ
Bunker rush TvZ
2 Proxy facts TvZ / TvP
3 fact (usually 1 proxied) TvP
Sparks Rush TvZ
Ay-u-mi TvZ
3 port wraith w/ cloak TvT 3 port wraith? Its 2 port wraith. You don't have enough gas to 3port. And by the time you do have enough gas for 3port any terran who loses to that is just plain sad.
2 Port isn't really a cheese. 3 port (generally 1 port then proxy 2 or 2 port proxy 1) is all-in, and yes if you delay siege mode and let wraiths take priority over constant tank production off your 1 factory then it's possible to pull off.
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On October 07 2010 17:29 krndandaman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 00:07 SubtleArt wrote:On October 06 2010 13:30 Carnac wrote:On October 06 2010 12:53 SubtleArt wrote:
A D+ player who doesn't know any cheeses? Odd. Either way:
3 hatch hydra bust ZvP
1 hatch lurker ZvT
2 hatch lurker drop ZvP / ZvT
gas steal --> reaver --> elevator (altho this requires some sick micro to pull off...watch snow vs lomo on matchpoint) PvT
1 Base 4 gate all in PvT
2 Base carrier PvT
10/15 PvT on rampless maps
BBS TvZ
Bunker rush TvZ
2 Proxy facts TvZ / TvP
3 fact (usually 1 proxied) TvP
Sparks Rush TvZ
Ay-u-mi TvZ
3 port wraith w/ cloak TvT this is a joke. right? Why would it be? Some of the builds there are not cheeses. Anyways, i feel like the best cheeses are the non-generic ones. People have seen cheese before and its easy to react ifbits the generic cheese. Here are some builds (not all are cheese) that i sometimes use for quick wins. -forge fe into no stargate +1 zeal rush. The catch is, you can only do this by hiding your gate count from ovies. Add 2nd gate before core and get 3/4 th gate asap. You should have at the very least 16zealots with rallied gates when speed/+1 kicks in. even muta wont stop your unstoppqble ground force. Ive beaten people 3ranks higher with this when i hid it well. -mondragons overpool speed ling runby. Its amazing how good this shit still is. It will rape balls ez up to c level. -forge fe into 2nd gate before gas. Move out at 5zeal. Standard timing to apply pressure is 3zeal off 1gate and will catch zergs skimping on lings offguard. A former korean progamer showed me this cheesy build. -2fac joyo. Will rape many protosses. Up to c- level you will probably win even if its scouted. Shits funny. -pvp 4gate goon. Autowin vs any non dt build or late/poorly microed reaver. -pvt vs siege expand. 4gate speedlots. Showing citadel then killing scv is a bonus as terran builds acad/turret. -tvp you go fd and if you see toss went for fe too go straight for 3fac before detection while cutting scv and gogo for timing with bunker. Most tosses go obs after fe vs fd. Sometimes its reaver or dt drop and u insta lose though: / -zvt 2hatch lurk into defiler rush. if terran plays way too defensive you can swarm into nat for the gg. Make minimal lurkers/lings in beginning and trick opponent into making mass defense. Yeah..thats all i got for now. 100% tested and proven on my smurf accounts!
These are actually really clever. I've done the FE --> 2 gate zealot thing and the 2 hatch lurker --> defiler rush with some success. Watch Calm vs Sea on I think (probably not) Holy World, where calm executes the tactic perfectly with the added twist of faking 2 hatch mutas.
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i've beaten some c/c+ protoss players last season by going 9 pool speed, mass zerglings, block ramp with initial 6 zerglings while building up 12 zerglings in my base, once i have 18 zerglings rally both hatcheries to protoss base and kill zealot and 2 cannons with 18 speedlings
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i suppose bbs with scv mixed would be really strong.
Same goes for 9/9 gate protoss with a substantial amount of probes.
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Choose the map outsider, then play only ZvT and 5 pool everygame. Get the timing so that at a certain point in time you can scout with 2 drones and if you see them send both drones to help harass the building scv.
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Early cheese in zvz is is the weakest of all matchups, even 4 pool will only really beat a hatch first, so any d+ should beat it. Speedling all ins (read pool/spire snipe) work well if you opponent can't count drones though.
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PvT - Double proxy robo. 2 reavers with shuttle. I don't know the exact build order that will get you the fastest possible double reavers with shuttle. It's pretty damn susceptible to an FD push and blocking ramp with a zeal is probably imperative.
Wish I remembered more about the build, but I first saw it on Shauni's stream long ago.
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On October 07 2010 20:17 Suc wrote:
If you play on destination as Z, you can send out one of your first four drones and go straight to the opponent's base, hug the wall and then 9 hatch in the area furthest away from their CC/Nexus/Hatch. Proceed to sunken his base :D
anyone half smart scouts their whole base and even their 3rd for proxies on desti
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On October 16 2010 03:41 mia-X17 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 20:17 Suc wrote:
If you play on destination as Z, you can send out one of your first four drones and go straight to the opponent's base, hug the wall and then 9 hatch in the area furthest away from their CC/Nexus/Hatch. Proceed to sunken his base :D anyone half smart scouts their whole base and even their 3rd for proxies on desti
It's really annoying hearing this all the time because its obviously not true. Sure good players are good at scouting but it doesn't automatically mean they are going to scout a proxy every time. On Desti most people do scout the entire main at this point but you would be surprised how often high rank players don't.
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Here's one I pulled off on Destination a while back: Triple proxy hatch.
Basically, I feigned a 9pool ling all in, but didn't actually make lings right away. Instead, I saved up 900 minerals and made three hatches on the high ground overlooking his base. I then followed that with some sunkens, and just started pumping lings at the proxy. I pushed the sunkens forward so they were hitting his pylons and he couldn't get cannons in range of my proxy. Then I just harassed with lings, expoed, and got Mutas and won.
I'll try to find the replay and put it up. It was rather epic.
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On October 16 2010 05:56 Chaos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2010 03:41 mia-X17 wrote:On October 07 2010 20:17 Suc wrote:
If you play on destination as Z, you can send out one of your first four drones and go straight to the opponent's base, hug the wall and then 9 hatch in the area furthest away from their CC/Nexus/Hatch. Proceed to sunken his base :D anyone half smart scouts their whole base and even their 3rd for proxies on desti It's really annoying hearing this all the time because its obviously not true. Sure good players are good at scouting but it doesn't automatically mean they are going to scout a proxy every time. On Desti most people do scout the entire main at this point but you would be surprised how often high rank players don't.
ur right nvm.
i do tho :D
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cheese smells bad, dont!!!
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Oh I remember my friend said I was cheesing when I went for a 4 DT drop after Forge FE PvZ. He also calls 3 hatch before pool, and any 1 base play cheese too.
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I wonder... would 4port wraith off of 2 bases work against Z? Like you open standard 1rax FE, but instead of getting medics/fbats/academy/e-bay/etc you just start massing the **** out of wraiths. Like 2 control groups of wraiths. Obviously the build probably would have like 78098 holes in it but the point of crazy cheeses like that is that since no one has seen it before they don't know how to react
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I like the classic 5pool over 4pool especially on maps with 3 start pos.
5pool.
Drone to 6
Scout with 6th drone
6lings
Extractor trick for 2more lings
Attack and make overlord.
If vs Zerg you can make a sunken with your scouting drone.
Ratch[InCa] was very successful with this in WGT 2007.
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Most of the builds being suggested here are either just plain ridiculous (1 base BC rush! So cheeesy!) or require enough skill in execution so that you probably won't win as a D+ vs a C.
If you want to get to as high a rank as possible with D+ mechanics, proxy BBS vs zerg on a 4 player map is by FAR your best bet. 9 out of 10 zergs will open 12 hatch. There isn't much micro needed. Just get 3 marines, rally your marines to the choke, bring 2-3 scvs, and when he pulls drones, target the closest drones one by one. "Kiting" isn't even necessary. This guy: http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/gamingprofile/eNjoyMacroing.html seriously proxy BBSed his way to A-. Let his success inspire you.
5 pool won't kill a protoss who FEed, and you'll still need to play out a midgame when he builds a cannon in his mineral line. You'll lose against 2 gate. You'll need better micro than the protoss to win vs 1 gate. Same for against a terran who 11 raxed.
Proxy 2 gate will only beat 12 hatch. Even in that case the zerg can just cancel the hatch and build a sunken in the main, and you'll have to play it out.
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Netherlands6142 Posts
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10/10 refinery barracks before supplythen proxy 2 facts in the middle of the map TVT. I forgot the exact build but works quite well
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On October 20 2010 10:49 Wonders wrote:Most of the builds being suggested here are either just plain ridiculous (1 base BC rush! So cheeesy!) or require enough skill in execution so that you probably won't win as a D+ vs a C. If you want to get to as high a rank as possible with D+ mechanics, proxy BBS vs zerg on a 4 player map is by FAR your best bet. 9 out of 10 zergs will open 12 hatch. There isn't much micro needed. Just get 3 marines, rally your marines to the choke, bring 2-3 scvs, and when he pulls drones, target the closest drones one by one. "Kiting" isn't even necessary. This guy: http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/gamingprofile/eNjoyMacroing.html seriously proxy BBSed his way to A-. Let his success inspire you. 5 pool won't kill a protoss who FEed, and you'll still need to play out a midgame when he builds a cannon in his mineral line. You'll lose against 2 gate. You'll need better micro than the protoss to win vs 1 gate. Same for against a terran who 11 raxed. Proxy 2 gate will only beat 12 hatch. Even in that case the zerg can just cancel the hatch and build a sunken in the main, and you'll have to play it out.
Is there any chance you (or anyone else) have a reppack of him? Please PM me. I would be forever greateful.
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First of all I'm sorry for bumping this up but I figured it's better to bump this up than to create a new topic entirely (also, I can't create topics because my account is less than 3 days old).
Anyway, I'm not much of a Brood War player. Always loved to watch it though (and thus I lack practice but I understand some of the theory). Anyway, it's a long story why, but I'm looking to get to D+ this season (it's a thing I have going on with my friend) and I don't really mind how I get there. I was thinking cheese would be the easiest and most efficient way, especially with someone of my calibre. But the question is: what cheese has the highest success rate? The post above inspired me to try BBS, but I've had very limited success with it (on Python). I wouldn't dare try it on a 2 player map like Blue Storm because every Zerg and his dog will go 9 pool there.
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You can cheese on any rank, but usually the case is that better player wins, not the one who cheeses. So, you're not propably going to make it to C+ only by cheesing when you just made it to D+ with such low winratio...
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Just thought I would ask something else - what's a good follow-up for when you're quite far ahead? In TvZ I find 80% of Zergs 12 hatch, and it's no problem taking down the 2nd hatch, the problem is finishing them off. They'll just turtle in their main with me outside their natural and build a shit ton of sunks. Obviously this sets them really far behind but what's something that can help seal the deal? I've realised in this situation there is no way I can quickly end it, so what's a good follow-up strategy when my 2 raxes are in the middle of the map?
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On November 01 2010 22:25 radialis wrote:
Just thought I would ask something else - what's a good follow-up for when you're quite far ahead? In TvZ I find 80% of Zergs 12 hatch, and it's no problem taking down the 2nd hatch, the problem is finishing them off. They'll just turtle in their main with me outside their natural and build a shit ton of sunks. Obviously this sets them really far behind but what's something that can help seal the deal? I've realised in this situation there is no way I can quickly end it, so what's a good follow-up strategy when my 2 raxes are in the middle of the map?
Take your natural, and play it off into the midgame, setting up a contain with bunkers and making sure you don't get harrassed by mutas, and work towards tank play to shell the sunkens. If he turtles up more, then take another base.
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On October 06 2010 20:15 Garrl wrote:Show nested quote +bcuz i am trying to enjoy the diversity of cheese and humiliate my opponents Stove. Stove every game.
God yes. Because even if you just win 1 game, it is totally worth it.
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On November 01 2010 22:54 Garrl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 22:25 radialis wrote:
Just thought I would ask something else - what's a good follow-up for when you're quite far ahead? In TvZ I find 80% of Zergs 12 hatch, and it's no problem taking down the 2nd hatch, the problem is finishing them off. They'll just turtle in their main with me outside their natural and build a shit ton of sunks. Obviously this sets them really far behind but what's something that can help seal the deal? I've realised in this situation there is no way I can quickly end it, so what's a good follow-up strategy when my 2 raxes are in the middle of the map? Take your natural, and play it off into the midgame, setting up a contain with bunkers and making sure you don't get harrassed by mutas, and work towards tank play to shell the sunkens. If he turtles up more, then take another base.
Do you (or anyone else) have a replay (not a VOD) of an effective BBS follow-up? Preferrably against Zerg? (as they tend to like playing it out)
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On October 06 2010 16:58 CaucasianAsian wrote:
you can also just PM KamuL (isai) about how to cheese. thats all he does lol
i <3 u isai
THE SUPERSMASHBROS ISAI!?!?
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More than half of the games in that thread have been removed from youtube. 
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On October 21 2010 00:19 Eatme wrote:
Is there any chance you (or anyone else) have a reppack of him? Please PM me. I would be forever greateful.
There's a few in various TSL reppacks but that's it.
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On November 03 2010 18:50 Wonders wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2010 00:19 Eatme wrote:
Is there any chance you (or anyone else) have a reppack of him? Please PM me. I would be forever greateful. There's a few in various TSL reppacks but that's it.
can you direct?
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On October 06 2010 11:43 LSB wrote:
2 gate DT, 4 gate goon.
Dts are nice and cheezy in PvP. And you can actually transition out of it
YO don't call me standard 4 gate power goon a cheese xD
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The Meso American SCV Rush for PvT. Does anyone know how I can get replays up here?
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On November 04 2010 14:15 Erk wrote:
The Meso American SCV Rush for PvT. Does anyone know how I can get replays up here?
Yes, upload them at http://repdepot.net/.
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You really should look at Reach vs. Zerglee on Guilotine, great misfortune for him not being able to scout the double lair drop coming up because the critters got in the way 
There isin't a copy on youtube anymore, but I do remember Chill (correct me) broadcasting it for the TL OLD VOD night one christmas in like 2008. Great game, 2lair ftw
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A very powerful TvZ cheese on all maps is 8 rax to early factory.
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EPT
