[G] Frozen's FE PvP Guide - Page 7

On January 04 2011 12:19 OneOther wrote:

right, i wouldn't have to make any adjustments because 3 gate speed zealot build is terrible against it. (it's a horrible build in most circumstances). dont jump to those conclusions without trying / putting in some effort

On January 06 2011 12:04 saltywet wrote:


well, u will get raped by it on maps like tau cross/medusa for starters.

second, u will have difficulty scouting it. my first dragoon will be able to kill your probe before my citadel finishes, after this, how would you know if im going for speedlots or DTs?

next, your 5 early zealots cant do any damage to me since ill have even or more zealots (after i kill probe, ill only let you see 1 zealot and 2 dragoons), and at this time i would push you. your 5 zealots would die and i think my zealot speed would kick in once my zealots walk 1/3 of way to your nat (if FS, 1/2 if python) your 4 gateway timing wont be up and you will definitely lose your natural nexus if not killed.

i can follow up with DTs or an expansion of my own after this.

On January 06 2011 14:49 OneOther wrote:

it appears to me that u dont really fully how the build works or how timings work out
i am not gonna get raped on it on any map, especially tau cross/medusa.

second, it's easy to scout. the moment i see that many zealots, i'd immediately know what you are doing. i'd set up a proper sim city and defense with cannons and units to stop it. plus you will have to cut probes here and there to get sufficient number of zealots to do any real damage and to get the speed tech. (cant hide that information with one dragoon) i get a feeling that you didn't watch any of the replays or try to see how the FE build actually works. my five zealots will get to your base by the time your citadel is building, even if you skipped gates/units for it. you "think" that speed finishes by the time ur zealots are on the way after killing my five zealots? it won't happen. i guarantee you that i would never ever get "raped" by this build

On January 06 2011 22:41 saltywet wrote:



you wont see that many zealots though, the moment your probe scout dies, ill block my opening with 2 goons and a zealot, and leave you wondering whether im doing a proxy robo, goon rush or DTs. if you make cannons and sim city, your gateway count and probe count will be set behind.

youir biggest problem is that you are so sure that you will be able to scout everything. you wont be able to see so many zealots in time to deal with it quickly

btw i know my timings, and i know that my citadel would be halfway finished by the time your first zealot pops if you 12 nex, and my legspeed wiould be finished by the time i walk 7 zealots halfway to your base

On January 06 2011 22:51 Ricjames wrote:
Saltywet if you go core to get the speed asap his 3-5 zealots will be able to enter your base and scout your build...

On January 10 2011 01:21 JMave wrote:
hi i have been playing against this for quite a bit now.

since you have a much delayed tech, the idea is to abuse this with goon range. even with the first 5 zealots, it is hard for the zealots to deal with 4-5 goons microed to kill each off 1 by 1.

because of the delayed tech, your goon numbers are much smaller to mine. even with 2-3 cannons, using 6-8 goons to snipe each cannon can negate cannon defence.


here's a rep. i'm still low d+ this season and my opponent was c-rep
when i watched the rep, i felt that even if he had gone for a forge right after his core, he wouldn't have had enough goons in time to defend against my superior goon number with range. coupled with the fact that my attack would happen when you are either having at most 1-2 cannons up and probably a few more building.

i follow up with dts because my assumption is that since you are committing so many cannons in the front, you wouldn't be able to afford making any in either the main or a few defended cannons at the min lines. so if my goon harass is successful, then the dts will most likely seal the game.

hope for some of your feedback.

edit: i watched the rep of you against photo and i felt that he dealt with it poorly. not undermining his skill because he is probably way superior than i am.

firstly, he played against you with the intention of teching to dts. even with your scouting probe in his base, he still started his citadel. for you, all it needed was just a cannon or 2 in your nat and you'd be far ahead.

in contrast, me getting a second gateway slightly earlier will give me the goon numbers i need to combat against the first 5 zealots that will be sent out.

On January 10 2011 09:46 JMave wrote:
if u push out with your 1 zeal and 2 goons, you have ground to micro your goons against his zealot to wear them down and to delay them.

by this time, you'd have around 3-4 goons already, which is way enough to push the 5 zealots back.

and why would you just spam zeals out of 1 gate? his build is essentially a delayed 2 gate zeal rush with 5 zealots but a much better economy. since you are ahead in tech, you can do so much harassment with your much faster goon range.

and maybe ur right with the dt thing. probably 3 gate goons can finish him off.

On January 13 2011 02:05 foppa wrote:


last time i checked 2 zeals and 1 goon dont kill 5 zealots. by the time the zeals get there you have your second goon. again if you want to practice this i am all for it. the nexus first build actually sacks a lot of probes so no it isnt that strong economically so by expanding right behind him your actually pretty even.

if you put goon pressure on, you HAVE to follow up with a robo. how are you suppose to know if the follow up is templar tech or not? if you expand off of goon pressure then you will die to dt. 3 gate goon wont kill it. he just needs to build canons and hes safe. hes still a whole lot ahead of you because hes making probes from two nexus as well as having 8 more mineral patches. on top of your goon pressure you have to get a robo which slows down your expo sooo much.

again your idea might work vs low ranked players but come the blue ranks with good execution of nexus first, you are going to end up behind

On January 10 2011 01:50 foppa wrote:


the 5 zealot timing hits when you have two zealots and one goon with the second goon about to finish. how are you getting 4-5 goons out in time to defend it? are you opening 10/15 gate? why would a dt follow up be good? if you break his canon line he is dead already so there is no point of dt. if anything your dts are are slowing down your timing for a goon bust.

the best way of deal with this is straight zealots out of 1 gate and even cancelling your gas if you can. followed up with a second gateway. and then you can play from even footing from there

On January 13 2011 13:54 iw-darins888 wrote:
what if both you and your opponent decided to go for this build? What should you do to take the advantage?? and how would you react to it?

On January 06 2011 05:58 OneOther wrote:

FE vs FE should be played like a standard game on maps like Blue Storm where you usually go up to three/four gates into robotics/citadel at the same time. Get a cannon only if you feel that he's doing some sort of fast DT rush. Otherwise, just position your goons well along the choke and you should be fine. To be able to maximize your advantage, it's important that you scout well to figure out how many units he's exactly getting so you can pump out as many probes as possible while getting the necessary units and tech. Again, it becomes an adjustment game. If you are opponent is doing some early push (and you need to scout this), you will obviously need to add more cannons. If not, push the advantage. I know this is easier said than done, but it will take some practice and experience. Players skip reavers most of the time and opt straight for templar tech, using the robo only for observers. This is usually a solid play. Then it becomes the regular map control/templar drops/expanding battle in the center. Please do not hesitate to upload a replay if you would like more specific advice.