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[G] Frozen's FE PvP Guide - Page 7

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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Soulforged
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Latvia918 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-06 02:20:44
January 06 2011 02:18 GMT
#121
Ugh, I have a big suspicion that people who take damage from non-proxied 2gate zealots, are trying this build on maps with short rush distance.

Otherwise, just get a battery and run around just a little bit until you match his zealot count; don't take gas too fast, and see if he's adding 3rd/4th gates with your scout - cut probe production for some time if so, and match gateway count.
In equal zealot counts, bring some probes to the fight, but be ready to run the ones being targeted. Micro your zealots properly, abuse the strength of battery (it gives a lot of shields; it does not take up gateway production times; unit being recharged isn't hitting so recharge the red zealots who are retreating)

Being 400(could say 300 thx to supply from nexus) minerals in army down in early game pvp is nothing. Gas/core cost that much, and goons, while effective addition to zealot vs zealot fight on a ramp, aren't that much different in strength from just getting your own zealots/battery for defence.

EDIT: yes, you need to be at least even in micro and never miss a pylon. But that's a given, there's not much room for error in any early game opening. Having zcorez vs 9/10 center gates doesn't leave you any freedom for mistakes, either.
saltywet
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Hong Kong1316 Posts
January 06 2011 03:04 GMT
#122
On January 04 2011 12:19 OneOther wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2011 12:13 saltywet wrote:
i dont think there are any adjustments that you can make to a pvp FE build that can fend off 3 gate speedlots.

right, i wouldn't have to make any adjustments because 3 gate speed zealot build is terrible against it. (it's a horrible build in most circumstances). dont jump to those conclusions without trying / putting in some effort


well, u will get raped by it on maps like tau cross/medusa for starters.

second, u will have difficulty scouting it. my first dragoon will be able to kill your probe before my citadel finishes, after this, how would you know if im going for speedlots or DTs?

next, your 5 early zealots cant do any damage to me since ill have even or more zealots (after i kill probe, ill only let you see 1 zealot and 2 dragoons), and at this time i would push you. your 5 zealots would die and i think my zealot speed would kick in once my zealots walk 1/3 of way to your nat (if FS, 1/2 if python) your 4 gateway timing wont be up and you will definitely lose your natural nexus if not killed.

i can follow up with DTs or an expansion of my own after this.
OneOther
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States10774 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-06 11:48:16
January 06 2011 05:49 GMT
#123
On January 06 2011 12:04 saltywet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2011 12:19 OneOther wrote:
On January 04 2011 12:13 saltywet wrote:
i dont think there are any adjustments that you can make to a pvp FE build that can fend off 3 gate speedlots.

right, i wouldn't have to make any adjustments because 3 gate speed zealot build is terrible against it. (it's a horrible build in most circumstances). dont jump to those conclusions without trying / putting in some effort


well, u will get raped by it on maps like tau cross/medusa for starters.

second, u will have difficulty scouting it. my first dragoon will be able to kill your probe before my citadel finishes, after this, how would you know if im going for speedlots or DTs?

next, your 5 early zealots cant do any damage to me since ill have even or more zealots (after i kill probe, ill only let you see 1 zealot and 2 dragoons), and at this time i would push you. your 5 zealots would die and i think my zealot speed would kick in once my zealots walk 1/3 of way to your nat (if FS, 1/2 if python) your 4 gateway timing wont be up and you will definitely lose your natural nexus if not killed.

i can follow up with DTs or an expansion of my own after this.

it appears to me that u dont really fully how the build works or how timings work out
i am not gonna get raped on it on any map, especially tau cross/medusa.

second, it's easy to scout. the moment i see that many zealots, i'd immediately know what you are doing. i'd set up a proper sim city and defense with cannons and units to stop it. plus you will have to cut probes here and there to get sufficient number of zealots to do any real damage and to get the speed tech. (cant hide that information with one dragoon) i get a feeling that you didn't watch any of the replays or try to see how the FE build actually works. my five zealots will get to your base by the time your citadel is building, even if you skipped gates/units for it. you "think" that speed finishes by the time ur zealots are on the way after killing my five zealots? it won't happen. i guarantee you that i would never ever get "raped" by this build
saltywet
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Hong Kong1316 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-06 13:43:13
January 06 2011 13:41 GMT
#124
On January 06 2011 14:49 OneOther wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2011 12:04 saltywet wrote:
On January 04 2011 12:19 OneOther wrote:
On January 04 2011 12:13 saltywet wrote:
i dont think there are any adjustments that you can make to a pvp FE build that can fend off 3 gate speedlots.

right, i wouldn't have to make any adjustments because 3 gate speed zealot build is terrible against it. (it's a horrible build in most circumstances). dont jump to those conclusions without trying / putting in some effort


well, u will get raped by it on maps like tau cross/medusa for starters.

second, u will have difficulty scouting it. my first dragoon will be able to kill your probe before my citadel finishes, after this, how would you know if im going for speedlots or DTs?

next, your 5 early zealots cant do any damage to me since ill have even or more zealots (after i kill probe, ill only let you see 1 zealot and 2 dragoons), and at this time i would push you. your 5 zealots would die and i think my zealot speed would kick in once my zealots walk 1/3 of way to your nat (if FS, 1/2 if python) your 4 gateway timing wont be up and you will definitely lose your natural nexus if not killed.

i can follow up with DTs or an expansion of my own after this.

it appears to me that u dont really fully how the build works or how timings work out
i am not gonna get raped on it on any map, especially tau cross/medusa.

second, it's easy to scout. the moment i see that many zealots, i'd immediately know what you are doing. i'd set up a proper sim city and defense with cannons and units to stop it. plus you will have to cut probes here and there to get sufficient number of zealots to do any real damage and to get the speed tech. (cant hide that information with one dragoon) i get a feeling that you didn't watch any of the replays or try to see how the FE build actually works. my five zealots will get to your base by the time your citadel is building, even if you skipped gates/units for it. you "think" that speed finishes by the time ur zealots are on the way after killing my five zealots? it won't happen. i guarantee you that i would never ever get "raped" by this build



you wont see that many zealots though, the moment your probe scout dies, ill block my opening with 2 goons and a zealot, and leave you wondering whether im doing a proxy robo, goon rush or DTs. if you make cannons and sim city, your gateway count and probe count will be set behind.

youir biggest problem is that you are so sure that you will be able to scout everything. you wont be able to see so many zealots in time to deal with it quickly

btw i know my timings, and i know that my citadel would be halfway finished by the time your first zealot pops if you 12 nex, and my legspeed wiould be finished by the time i walk 7 zealots halfway to your base
Ricjames
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Czech Republic1047 Posts
January 06 2011 13:51 GMT
#125
Saltywet if you go core to get the speed asap his 3-5 zealots will be able to enter your base and scout your build...
Brood War is the best RTS that has ever been created.
OneOther
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States10774 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-07 05:18:16
January 07 2011 01:34 GMT
#126
On January 06 2011 22:41 saltywet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2011 14:49 OneOther wrote:
On January 06 2011 12:04 saltywet wrote:
On January 04 2011 12:19 OneOther wrote:
On January 04 2011 12:13 saltywet wrote:
i dont think there are any adjustments that you can make to a pvp FE build that can fend off 3 gate speedlots.

right, i wouldn't have to make any adjustments because 3 gate speed zealot build is terrible against it. (it's a horrible build in most circumstances). dont jump to those conclusions without trying / putting in some effort


well, u will get raped by it on maps like tau cross/medusa for starters.

second, u will have difficulty scouting it. my first dragoon will be able to kill your probe before my citadel finishes, after this, how would you know if im going for speedlots or DTs?

next, your 5 early zealots cant do any damage to me since ill have even or more zealots (after i kill probe, ill only let you see 1 zealot and 2 dragoons), and at this time i would push you. your 5 zealots would die and i think my zealot speed would kick in once my zealots walk 1/3 of way to your nat (if FS, 1/2 if python) your 4 gateway timing wont be up and you will definitely lose your natural nexus if not killed.

i can follow up with DTs or an expansion of my own after this.

it appears to me that u dont really fully how the build works or how timings work out
i am not gonna get raped on it on any map, especially tau cross/medusa.

second, it's easy to scout. the moment i see that many zealots, i'd immediately know what you are doing. i'd set up a proper sim city and defense with cannons and units to stop it. plus you will have to cut probes here and there to get sufficient number of zealots to do any real damage and to get the speed tech. (cant hide that information with one dragoon) i get a feeling that you didn't watch any of the replays or try to see how the FE build actually works. my five zealots will get to your base by the time your citadel is building, even if you skipped gates/units for it. you "think" that speed finishes by the time ur zealots are on the way after killing my five zealots? it won't happen. i guarantee you that i would never ever get "raped" by this build



you wont see that many zealots though, the moment your probe scout dies, ill block my opening with 2 goons and a zealot, and leave you wondering whether im doing a proxy robo, goon rush or DTs. if you make cannons and sim city, your gateway count and probe count will be set behind.

youir biggest problem is that you are so sure that you will be able to scout everything. you wont be able to see so many zealots in time to deal with it quickly

btw i know my timings, and i know that my citadel would be halfway finished by the time your first zealot pops if you 12 nex, and my legspeed wiould be finished by the time i walk 7 zealots halfway to your base


i will be able to see what you are doing with my zealots. (please take your time to read my guide or watch the replays. the fact that you suggest you will be able to stop me from scouting with a zealot/two goons tells me u didn't bother to do either) you will not have enough units to stop me from figuring out what you are doing. you will have to cut probes for the zealots and tech if you wanna do any sort of damage, so as long as i survive, i will win hundred percent.

it's not a problem. i will be able to scout what you are doing.

it seems to me that you have inadequate knowledge or skill level to really support your case. or at least, for the good of everyone, please read the guide more carefully and watch the replays so we are at least on the same page. you can say that you read it all you want, but it's clear from what you are saying that you do not know/understand the build at all.

if you want to prove yourself, feel free to PM me or message me on iccup on Derivatives. im sorry, but from what you are posting, i am going to dismiss you as a stubborn poster without the sufficient knowledge or skill of the game.

On January 06 2011 22:51 Ricjames wrote:
Saltywet if you go core to get the speed asap his 3-5 zealots will be able to enter your base and scout your build...

yep, precisely.
JMave
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Singapore1803 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-09 16:29:25
January 09 2011 16:21 GMT
#127
hi i have been playing against this for quite a bit now.

since you have a much delayed tech, the idea is to abuse this with goon range. even with the first 5 zealots, it is hard for the zealots to deal with 4-5 goons microed to kill each off 1 by 1.

because of the delayed tech, your goon numbers are much smaller to mine. even with 2-3 cannons, using 6-8 goons to snipe each cannon can negate cannon defence.


here's a rep. i'm still low d+ this season and my opponent was c-rep
when i watched the rep, i felt that even if he had gone for a forge right after his core, he wouldn't have had enough goons in time to defend against my superior goon number with range. coupled with the fact that my attack would happen when you are either having at most 1-2 cannons up and probably a few more building.

i follow up with dts because my assumption is that since you are committing so many cannons in the front, you wouldn't be able to afford making any in either the main or a few defended cannons at the min lines. so if my goon harass is successful, then the dts will most likely seal the game.

hope for some of your feedback.

edit: i watched the rep of you against photo and i felt that he dealt with it poorly. not undermining his skill because he is probably way superior than i am.

firstly, he played against you with the intention of teching to dts. even with your scouting probe in his base, he still started his citadel. for you, all it needed was just a cannon or 2 in your nat and you'd be far ahead.

in contrast, me getting a second gateway slightly earlier will give me the goon numbers i need to combat against the first 5 zealots that will be sent out.
火心 Jealous. I always loved that feeling when I was young. Embrace it.
foppa
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Canada451 Posts
January 09 2011 16:50 GMT
#128
On January 10 2011 01:21 JMave wrote:
hi i have been playing against this for quite a bit now.

since you have a much delayed tech, the idea is to abuse this with goon range. even with the first 5 zealots, it is hard for the zealots to deal with 4-5 goons microed to kill each off 1 by 1.

because of the delayed tech, your goon numbers are much smaller to mine. even with 2-3 cannons, using 6-8 goons to snipe each cannon can negate cannon defence.


here's a rep. i'm still low d+ this season and my opponent was c-rep
when i watched the rep, i felt that even if he had gone for a forge right after his core, he wouldn't have had enough goons in time to defend against my superior goon number with range. coupled with the fact that my attack would happen when you are either having at most 1-2 cannons up and probably a few more building.

i follow up with dts because my assumption is that since you are committing so many cannons in the front, you wouldn't be able to afford making any in either the main or a few defended cannons at the min lines. so if my goon harass is successful, then the dts will most likely seal the game.

hope for some of your feedback.

edit: i watched the rep of you against photo and i felt that he dealt with it poorly. not undermining his skill because he is probably way superior than i am.

firstly, he played against you with the intention of teching to dts. even with your scouting probe in his base, he still started his citadel. for you, all it needed was just a cannon or 2 in your nat and you'd be far ahead.

in contrast, me getting a second gateway slightly earlier will give me the goon numbers i need to combat against the first 5 zealots that will be sent out.


the 5 zealot timing hits when you have two zealots and one goon with the second goon about to finish. how are you getting 4-5 goons out in time to defend it? are you opening 10/15 gate? why would a dt follow up be good? if you break his canon line he is dead already so there is no point of dt. if anything your dts are are slowing down your timing for a goon bust.

the best way of deal with this is straight zealots out of 1 gate and even cancelling your gas if you can. followed up with a second gateway. and then you can play from even footing from there
i can take you
JMave
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Singapore1803 Posts
January 10 2011 00:46 GMT
#129
if u push out with your 1 zeal and 2 goons, you have ground to micro your goons against his zealot to wear them down and to delay them.

by this time, you'd have around 3-4 goons already, which is way enough to push the 5 zealots back.

and why would you just spam zeals out of 1 gate? his build is essentially a delayed 2 gate zeal rush with 5 zealots but a much better economy. since you are ahead in tech, you can do so much harassment with your much faster goon range.

and maybe ur right with the dt thing. probably 3 gate goons can finish him off.
火心 Jealous. I always loved that feeling when I was young. Embrace it.
HaFnium
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United Kingdom1074 Posts
January 10 2011 13:42 GMT
#130
I think the DT goon follow can be good, I have lost to this kind of builds when i coudlnt correctly guess they are going DTs. I usually just build 2-3 cannons, becoz i prefer more gateways to have a higher goon count, so i think ur build can be ok. You just need to prevent ur opponent from guessing what u are doing.
BW forever!
foppa
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Canada451 Posts
January 12 2011 17:05 GMT
#131
On January 10 2011 09:46 JMave wrote:
if u push out with your 1 zeal and 2 goons, you have ground to micro your goons against his zealot to wear them down and to delay them.

by this time, you'd have around 3-4 goons already, which is way enough to push the 5 zealots back.

and why would you just spam zeals out of 1 gate? his build is essentially a delayed 2 gate zeal rush with 5 zealots but a much better economy. since you are ahead in tech, you can do so much harassment with your much faster goon range.

and maybe ur right with the dt thing. probably 3 gate goons can finish him off.


last time i checked 2 zeals and 1 goon dont kill 5 zealots. by the time the zeals get there you have your second goon. again if you want to practice this i am all for it. the nexus first build actually sacks a lot of probes so no it isnt that strong economically so by expanding right behind him your actually pretty even.

if you put goon pressure on, you HAVE to follow up with a robo. how are you suppose to know if the follow up is templar tech or not? if you expand off of goon pressure then you will die to dt. 3 gate goon wont kill it. he just needs to build canons and hes safe. hes still a whole lot ahead of you because hes making probes from two nexus as well as having 8 more mineral patches. on top of your goon pressure you have to get a robo which slows down your expo sooo much.

again your idea might work vs low ranked players but come the blue ranks with good execution of nexus first, you are going to end up behind
i can take you
JMave
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Singapore1803 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-12 23:46:26
January 12 2011 23:40 GMT
#132
On January 13 2011 02:05 foppa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2011 09:46 JMave wrote:
if u push out with your 1 zeal and 2 goons, you have ground to micro your goons against his zealot to wear them down and to delay them.

by this time, you'd have around 3-4 goons already, which is way enough to push the 5 zealots back.

and why would you just spam zeals out of 1 gate? his build is essentially a delayed 2 gate zeal rush with 5 zealots but a much better economy. since you are ahead in tech, you can do so much harassment with your much faster goon range.

and maybe ur right with the dt thing. probably 3 gate goons can finish him off.


last time i checked 2 zeals and 1 goon dont kill 5 zealots. by the time the zeals get there you have your second goon. again if you want to practice this i am all for it. the nexus first build actually sacks a lot of probes so no it isnt that strong economically so by expanding right behind him your actually pretty even.

if you put goon pressure on, you HAVE to follow up with a robo. how are you suppose to know if the follow up is templar tech or not? if you expand off of goon pressure then you will die to dt. 3 gate goon wont kill it. he just needs to build canons and hes safe. hes still a whole lot ahead of you because hes making probes from two nexus as well as having 8 more mineral patches. on top of your goon pressure you have to get a robo which slows down your expo sooo much.

again your idea might work vs low ranked players but come the blue ranks with good execution of nexus first, you are going to end up behind


i don't think he sacks alot of probes to make his nexus? its a 12 nexus through constant probe production. the only way i see it is that he's cutting probes is for 2 gateways and pumping out the 5 zealots.

so like you said that even if i didn't expand and stayed on 2 gate and my army size would be far inferior to his 5 zealots, that means me expanding right after him is going to kill me?

maybe my opponent in the rep i posted was lack luster but i was able to kill off his 5 zealots with 1 zeal, 2 goons and following up with reinforced goons. if killing his 5 zealots happens, then he will have to spam alot of cannons, sacrificing resources for cannons instead of goons. at this point, his nat economy hasn't really kicked in. so he should not have that many goons himself and cannons still warping in. this is the timing to hit.

so what kind of build will you be suggesting? if i expand right away, i die to his 5 zealots. if i apply goon pressure i need to follow up with a robo but that would slow down my expansion. since you're saying goon pressure won't work against his cannons, then what build should i go?

edit: missed out something.
On January 10 2011 01:50 foppa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2011 01:21 JMave wrote:
hi i have been playing against this for quite a bit now.

since you have a much delayed tech, the idea is to abuse this with goon range. even with the first 5 zealots, it is hard for the zealots to deal with 4-5 goons microed to kill each off 1 by 1.

because of the delayed tech, your goon numbers are much smaller to mine. even with 2-3 cannons, using 6-8 goons to snipe each cannon can negate cannon defence.


here's a rep. i'm still low d+ this season and my opponent was c-rep
when i watched the rep, i felt that even if he had gone for a forge right after his core, he wouldn't have had enough goons in time to defend against my superior goon number with range. coupled with the fact that my attack would happen when you are either having at most 1-2 cannons up and probably a few more building.

i follow up with dts because my assumption is that since you are committing so many cannons in the front, you wouldn't be able to afford making any in either the main or a few defended cannons at the min lines. so if my goon harass is successful, then the dts will most likely seal the game.

hope for some of your feedback.

edit: i watched the rep of you against photo and i felt that he dealt with it poorly. not undermining his skill because he is probably way superior than i am.

firstly, he played against you with the intention of teching to dts. even with your scouting probe in his base, he still started his citadel. for you, all it needed was just a cannon or 2 in your nat and you'd be far ahead.

in contrast, me getting a second gateway slightly earlier will give me the goon numbers i need to combat against the first 5 zealots that will be sent out.


the 5 zealot timing hits when you have two zealots and one goon with the second goon about to finish. how are you getting 4-5 goons out in time to defend it? are you opening 10/15 gate? why would a dt follow up be good? if you break his canon line he is dead already so there is no point of dt. if anything your dts are are slowing down your timing for a goon bust.

the best way of deal with this is straight zealots out of 1 gate and even cancelling your gas if you can. followed up with a second gateway. and then you can play from even footing from there


i still don't understand this. the whole point about getting the 5 zealots is to force your opponent to match your zealot count. even with my second gateway, there's nothing i'll be able to do to disrupt his economy. with his 5 zealots at my ramp and him seeing me having alot of zealots, he can just retreat into a cannon defense in his nat. i'll have to play catch up all game because firstly, i need to cannon up my nat before i can take it because like you said, i don't know if he's going for templar tech, leaving me even further behind.
火心 Jealous. I always loved that feeling when I was young. Embrace it.
foppa
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Canada451 Posts
January 12 2011 23:56 GMT
#133
you skip probes at 12. because youre doing 12/14 gate. then throughout the build you need to skip a couple of probes to make everything fit. economically it isnt as good as you think. and my bad i really messed up what i wanted to say. the best thing to do is get 1 gate then expand then get the second gate to match his zealot count. so youre doing something like expand off of 1 zeal at like 18 food. Continuous zealot production off of that 1 gate and adding another. this way you go into the mid game absolutely even.

im not saying goon pressure cant work, im saying it shouldnt work because he just needs canons and to get to templar tech to survive and then you are behind. reaver play can be good but its essentially all in in this situation in the sense that if you dont kill him straight up, your expo isnt up until 2 gates (or 3) and reaver tech while he has had his since 12 food. dt drop is just retarded because you can get blind countered by goons and a canon in the main as well as you need to rely on very few units at the start to get a good timing on your drop.
i can take you
iw-darins888
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada32 Posts
January 13 2011 04:54 GMT
#134
what if both you and your opponent decided to go for this build? What should you do to take the advantage?? and how would you react to it?
Macro= large Micro=small
No_eL
Profile Joined July 2007
Chile1438 Posts
January 13 2011 14:49 GMT
#135
a really nice guide, i love it, thanks again!
Beat after beat i will become stronger.
Sayle
Profile Joined October 2010
United Kingdom3685 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-13 15:35:06
January 13 2011 15:32 GMT
#136
On January 13 2011 13:54 iw-darins888 wrote:
what if both you and your opponent decided to go for this build? What should you do to take the advantage?? and how would you react to it?


I second this question.

I actually found myself in this situation against Kiante a while back. When I scouted it, I basically just didn't build any cannons and went straight for gateways and templar tech since I knew I could just match his unit count. If you see it early, you could probably even get away with not building a forge, although you might want it anyway for upgrades. Overall, I think you'll both reach the mid game pretty quickly and with no huge advantage for either player.

Edit: Also, a practice partner of mine did something interesting after I used this build a couple of times against him. In the third game, he just assumed I was doing the same build and blindly went 14 nex in response. Obviously, this won't work in a normal ladder game, but it's just some food for thought.
OneOther
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States10774 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-13 19:29:31
January 13 2011 19:02 GMT
#137
Hey guys, I have been really busy with school but I will address your questions (JMave, Sayle, etc) this weekend when I have some time. Thanks for your patience.
OneOther
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States10774 Posts
January 13 2011 19:09 GMT
#138
On January 13 2011 13:54 iw-darins888 wrote:
what if both you and your opponent decided to go for this build? What should you do to take the advantage?? and how would you react to it?

On January 06 2011 05:58 OneOther wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2011 04:37 Entaro[AoV] wrote:
OneOther, how do you think an FE vs FE pvp game ought to be played? Any difference in timings? I assume you don't need as many cannons since neither player is getting faster goons. You might not need forge too early either actually.

Also I just played a teammate going FE and he went standard and he was able to kill like 6 of my probes . It was harder to defend a zealot + probe than I thought. He was already up my ramp when my first lot came out.

FE vs FE should be played like a standard game on maps like Blue Storm where you usually go up to three/four gates into robotics/citadel at the same time. Get a cannon only if you feel that he's doing some sort of fast DT rush. Otherwise, just position your goons well along the choke and you should be fine. To be able to maximize your advantage, it's important that you scout well to figure out how many units he's exactly getting so you can pump out as many probes as possible while getting the necessary units and tech. Again, it becomes an adjustment game. If you are opponent is doing some early push (and you need to scout this), you will obviously need to add more cannons. If not, push the advantage. I know this is easier said than done, but it will take some practice and experience. Players skip reavers most of the time and opt straight for templar tech, using the robo only for observers. This is usually a solid play. Then it becomes the regular map control/templar drops/expanding battle in the center. Please do not hesitate to upload a replay if you would like more specific advice.
ArvickHero
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
10387 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-27 04:16:03
January 27 2011 04:04 GMT
#139
Watching the reps from IEF 2010, one of the foreigners (I think it was Vulture) tried this build against Stork on Andromeda. Needless to say, Vulture got totally manhandled. It helped that Stork scouted him first, but Stork just rallied his gateway to Vulture's base and killed an ungodly amount of probes w/ his Zealots, while taking an expo of his own. Can I get your thoughts on this OneOther?
Writerptrk
OneOther
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States10774 Posts
January 27 2011 05:58 GMT
#140
Hey ArvickHero, could you upload the replay if possible?

I have not watched the game and I am not sure what exactly happened. I am sure the fact that Stork is probably the best Protoss player ever, especially in 2010, would not help Vulture's case though. I have never even heard of Vulture haha.

But if you could upload it, I'd love to watch it and write my thoughts on it.
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