EPT[G] Frozen's FE PvP Guide - Page 6
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NotJumperer
United States1371 Posts
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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k.taeyang
Peru145 Posts
I really like it when the person bms me after the match  I often get 4gate timing and getting storm up right in time to his reaver goon timing. I really got used to this build | ||
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tryummm
774 Posts
I can typically beat it rather easily but I'm not very comfortable playing it and my build seems really sloppy. I don't know whether I should focus on getting range quickly and not dying in the process, getting goons out, getting cannons out, etc.. I also seem to follow up pretty much in the dark when contained. | ||
OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On January 03 2011 03:41 Jumperer wrote: I rarely lost to this FE build when I was active, but then again I've never actually played you using this build. I'm actually pretty curious to see how I do against it. Are you down for a game or two Mr. PvP FE master? You do realize the build isn't AS strong if you KNOW I am going to do it? lol | ||
Kiante
Australia7069 Posts
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saltywet
Hong Kong1316 Posts
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On January 04 2011 12:13 saltywet wrote: i dont think there are any adjustments that you can make to a pvp FE build that can fend off 3 gate speedlots. right, i wouldn't have to make any adjustments because 3 gate speed zealot build is terrible against it. (it's a horrible build in most circumstances). dont jump to those conclusions without trying / putting in some effort | ||
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On January 03 2011 09:25 Kiante wrote: what do you do when someone 9 scouts you in close positions and their probe enters your base before the nexus goes down? go ahead with it? or throw a late gate go ahead and build the nexus. if he's doing some hardcore all-in build, cancel the nexus and defend the ramp. you will have more probes | ||
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HaFnium
United Kingdom1076 Posts
Becomes my standard pvp build. One thing that I'm struggling with is the timing of the forge/gas/cybercore, sometimes i find my cannons not fast enough to stop the goons aggression (mainly because of my poor micro against early 1-2- zealot harassment), will you have to build the forge before core sometimes? | ||
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Entaro[AoV]
United States184 Posts
On January 05 2011 04:09 HaFnium wrote: I really like this build. Becomes my standard pvp build. One thing that I'm struggling with is the timing of the forge/gas/cybercore, sometimes i find my cannons not fast enough to stop the goons aggression (mainly because of my poor micro against early 1-2- zealot harassment), will you have to build the forge before core sometimes? i face the same problems. My gas/core/forge timing is ALWAYS off. By the time i see he has a couple goons and all i have are lots I'm like shit shit gotta build forge. its usually cuz i'm busy microign the lots and the build doesn't specify a specific timing for gas/core/forge. I feel like with specific supply timings, i would still be able to micro my lots and get them up. | ||
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Muff2n
United Kingdom251 Posts
So I just faced this on FS and my response was to keep making zealots from 1 gate whilst i teched to 3 gate goon. It started very well for me as I sent my zealots to probe hunt (your zealots are trash when i get goons so why kill them?) and traded my 3 zealots for 5 probes. Then he cannoned just enough and when I pushed in and we traded armies, which was very unit efficient for me but was equaled due to his greater economy and I expanded whilst doing so. This left us very very equal (similar tech and food). I should have been ahead however - Im not used to 3 gating so I made too many probes on 1 bases and my nat should have been taken way earlier (also I only had 2 probes on gas lol so couldn't transition to anything fast). So my argument is that assuming he micros probes better and loses less, but I do my response better next time (was winging it this last game) and get a much faster nat, I think we will be in equal positions. BUT my BO is very very safe, yours makes you vulnerable to some cheese. (I will admit that if I scouted you in cross positions I would scout you late and have to proxy my +2 gates which creates weaknesses for me however). So in short. Add me muff2n on iccup and face meh! I think that I can arrive into the midgame on par with you. I also have a question. I followed my goons with cannons because I was worried that he would be teching to dt. If I am 3 gate gooning, can you realistically spare the cash for Dt tech? Or can I just go 3 gate nex robo obs and be fine (assuming I remember 3 probes on gas next time)? I built a forge and 2 cannons because I was scared of the unknown. Thanks. Good guide btw. | ||
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Entaro[AoV]
United States184 Posts
I also have a question. I followed my goons with cannons because I was worried that he would be teching to dt. If I am 3 gate gooning, can you realistically spare the cash for Dt tech? Or can I just go 3 gate nex robo obs and be fine (assuming I remember 3 probes on gas next time)? I built a forge and 2 cannons because I was scared of the unknown. 3 gate goon will be defended with a few lots and goons, and mostly cannons. once those are up, the FE-er can def spare the cash for dt as well as temp. I highly doubt you'll be on par econ wise in the midgame against FE. Even if you manage to get 5 probes in the beginning (which is huge), you're gonna have way less gas than him, and fast gas allows him to go dt while getting storm and temps right after the dt, and he can also get obs at the same time. | ||
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Muff2n
United Kingdom251 Posts
On January 05 2011 05:53 Entaro[AoV] wrote: 3 gate goon will be defended with a few lots and goons, and mostly cannons. once those are up, the FE-er can def spare the cash for dt as well as temp. I highly doubt you'll be on par econ wise in the midgame against FE. Even if you manage to get 5 probes in the beginning (which is huge), you're gonna have way less gas than him, and fast gas allows him to go dt while getting storm and temps right after the dt, and he can also get obs at the same time. Definitely the thing that worries me most is his access to gas. I don't have enough experience against the build yet, but I am hoping that 3 gate pressure is going to keep him so strapped for cash that he can't afford to go for the 2nd geyser. If he can then Ima have to reevaluate and say Oo. As the aggressive player, Im calling the shots. Ofc Im sure he can read my BO very well but at the end of the day, I can either chose to go for the attack or be satisfied that he spent a lot of cash on cannons. | ||
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On January 05 2011 05:37 Muff2n wrote: Hmm, I don't think the bo is that good. I am a big fan of standard play is the best So I just faced this on FS and my response was to keep making zealots from 1 gate whilst i teched to 3 gate goon. It started very well for me as I sent my zealots to probe hunt (your zealots are trash when i get goons so why kill them?) and traded my 3 zealots for 5 probes. Then he cannoned just enough and when I pushed in and we traded armies, which was very unit efficient for me but was equaled due to his greater economy and I expanded whilst doing so. This left us very very equal (similar tech and food). I should have been ahead however - Im not used to 3 gating so I made too many probes on 1 bases and my nat should have been taken way earlier (also I only had 2 probes on gas lol so couldn't transition to anything fast). So my argument is that assuming he micros probes better and loses less, but I do my response better next time (was winging it this last game) and get a much faster nat, I think we will be in equal positions. BUT my BO is very very safe, yours makes you vulnerable to some cheese. (I will admit that if I scouted you in cross positions I would scout you late and have to proxy my +2 gates which creates weaknesses for me however). So in short. Add me muff2n on iccup and face meh! I think that I can arrive into the midgame on par with you. I also have a question. I followed my goons with cannons because I was worried that he would be teching to dt. If I am 3 gate gooning, can you realistically spare the cash for Dt tech? Or can I just go 3 gate nex robo obs and be fine (assuming I remember 3 probes on gas next time)? I built a forge and 2 cannons because I was scared of the unknown. Thanks. Good guide btw. Your opponent was either terrible or he does not know how to do this build if you killed 5 probes with your initial zealots. The build is only good if the player knows how to executive it properly. Sure, I will play you. However, I am not sure why you guys think it makes sense to evaluate a build's strength by playing against it when you know that I am going to use it. That's like saying, let me see how strong the PvT Fast Carrier is by playing against it when I know for a fact that you are going to do it. (I am going to adjust everything to counter it) By doing this, you are taking out huge advantage of this build: surprise and uncertainty. Either way, I will still play you, even though I have not touched Brood War since June. Can you play in a couple hours? | ||
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Muff2n
United Kingdom251 Posts
It doesnt matter that I know your BO as I shall play as if I do not know it is coming until the moment I scout that nexus. The same old 8 scout 11 gate 12 gas 14 zeal 18 core 19 zeal that I have used for my last 50 odd games until I scout you. | ||
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On January 05 2011 09:27 Muff2n wrote: I'd rather make it the weekend as I am GMT+0. It doesnt matter that I know your BO as I shall play as if I do not know it is coming until the moment I scout that nexus. The same old 8 scout 11 gate 12 gas 14 zeal 18 core 19 zeal that I have used for my last 50 odd games until I scout you. I can't play starting the weekend. Can you play right now? Seeing you are on TL you might as well | ||
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Entaro[AoV]
United States184 Posts
Also I just played a teammate going FE and he went standard and he was able to kill like 6 of my probes  . It was harder to defend a zealot + probe than I thought. He was already up my ramp when my first lot came out. | ||
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On January 06 2011 04:37 Entaro[AoV] wrote: OneOther, how do you think an FE vs FE pvp game ought to be played? Any difference in timings? I assume you don't need as many cannons since neither player is getting faster goons. You might not need forge too early either actually. Also I just played a teammate going FE and he went standard and he was able to kill like 6 of my probes . It was harder to defend a zealot + probe than I thought. He was already up my ramp when my first lot came out.FE vs FE should be played like a standard game on maps like Blue Storm where you usually go up to four gates into robotics/citadel at the same time. Get a cannon only if you feel that he's doing some sort of fast DT rush. Otherwise, just position your goons well along the choke and you should be fine. Players skip reavers most of the time and opt straight for templar tech, using the robo only for observers. This is usually a solid play. Then it becomes the regular map control/templar drops/expanding battle in the center. Please do not hesitate to upload a replay if you would like more specific advice. You should never, ever lose six probes. I am not quite sure what the problem was, but it was most likely a micro problem. That just takes experience and practice. | ||
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Kiante
Australia7069 Posts
Also getting supply blocked or forgetting a zealot when being 2-3 gate zealot'd is pretty much game over (happened to me a bit lol) | ||
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