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Excel Excel
142 Posts
So far my only solution is to prevent the P from getting carriers to start with, but I don't want to think of carriers as a game-ending unit: they have it and I'm done for? That's a pretty pessimistic view of the game. P.S. Before you suggest devourers, try it out yourself. | ||
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Switchb4ck
United States2 Posts
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SoMuchBetter
Australia10606 Posts
just be sure to keep all the expansions scouted during early-mid so he doesnt get away with taking them behind your back while youre building up | ||
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Papvin
Denmark610 Posts
Anyway, general guidelines against protoss mass air is simply to mass hydras. At the time he has many carriers, you should be closed to maxed with hydra/devourer and eventually just transitioning into mass mut/devourer, which will eat carrier/sair alive. Also, you seem to not understand how powerful devourers and defilers are against mass p air. Plague against carriers is DEVASTATING!! Carriers have 4 natural armor, so removing all their hitpoints (which is 2/3 of it's total life) make them so vulnarable, and, they can't heal it up :D. And, I have tried devourers out myself. They are insanely as support units against corsairs, because acid spores completely negates corsairs. They're not that good against carriers, but the p will always have sairs in his army, so devourers rock! Again, post a replay, it'll help us help you immensly. | ||
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Piste
6179 Posts
devourers + plague is damn effective. Don't know what makes you think otherwise. Carriers are damn slow and as a zerg your hydra army moves fast especially when you have nydus canals. Use also queens for ensare and parasite. Plague also interceptors and they will not come out of the carrier before plague has gone off. Remember upgrades. | ||
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
Hydra+swarm pretty much makes them invincible. With plague they'll get eaten pretty fast by hydras. Maybe burrow would help? | ||
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holyhalo5
United States187 Posts
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
good answers! | ||
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Severedevil
United States4839 Posts
You counter sair/reaver or sair/carrier by having a massive economy. And then you get a buttload of hydra/devourer/scourge/muta with plague and upgrades. | ||
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blahman3344
United States2015 Posts
On May 03 2010 01:44 holyhalo5 wrote: bisu did this to jaedong (my favorite rep of all time). why didnt JAEDONG go for devourers? even pro gamers make some bad decisions sometime. in the most recent jaedong vs stork (on match point i think), stork had mass zealots, while jaedong knew this, he could have made lurkers, but he continued to pump ultras. but on topic: carriers have nothing on hydras + swarm. and for a protoss player to be able to mass carirers and corsairs, he shouldn't be able to do anything about you expanding over the map and powering an econ. also if mobility is a problem, that's why zergs have nydus canals =P edit: as the others have been saying, you need to post a replay in order for me to zero in on what it is you need to do. =\ | ||
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DarkSaieden
South Africa254 Posts
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kineSiS-
Korea (South)1068 Posts
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Papvin
Denmark610 Posts
On May 03 2010 03 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 03 2010 03 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:54 kineSiS- wrote: Devours get raped by carriers I am not even joking. The only good thing they do is tank the damage of the corsairs and slow down the sairs attack seriously. I'm pretty sure I've seen a Sair/Reaver transition into Carrier/Sair/Reaver/Disruptor Web against somoene else besides Bisu vs Jaedong, Devours get OHKO'd by carriers and on Andromeda with someone like Bisu' 350 APM, it's easy to own the shit out of the zerg. Also on map's like outsider, it's freaking annoying to see a carrier/sair transition from early/mid game Sair/Reaver It seems like you don't play the devourers as they're supposed to be played. They're a support unit. Pure devourer is aweful against anything. And yes, devourers are not good against carriers, but they're imba against sairs, which the protoss will always have. | ||
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TriniMasta
United States1323 Posts
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GeMicles
Canada307 Posts
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jolenar
United States23 Posts
Also morph a Guardian here and there to harass his expansions/islands and force him to split off Corsairs to deal with them. | ||
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seRapH
United States9762 Posts
On May 03 2010 06:00 jolenar wrote: There was a game on Andromeda between Stork and some Zerg where the Zerg used Devourers to neutralize Sairs and then Scourged all the Carriers. With Plague, Carriers die to 2 Scourge. 9 acid spore'd Corsairs can't kill Scourge at all. Also morph a Guardian here and there to harass his expansions/islands and force him to split off Corsairs to deal with them. ggplay? epic game. devourers > corsairs, and tanks damage well. complement them with either mutalisks or mass, mass scourge (a bit harder to micro). | ||
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Saracen
United States5139 Posts
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lone_hydra
Canada1460 Posts
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CakeOrI)eath
United States327 Posts
Carriers are such a huge investment not just in resources but in time (it takes a long time before the money you put into them becomes useful). As such there either is some sort of timing window where you can either attack and kill him OR, more likely, you can be confident that the toss can only harass and not do a full powered attack. In this second case you have to focus on defending the harass (sair reaver or sair DT) and out expanding/macroing the toss so that when carriers DO show up, you might not have a cost effective option to fighting them but you will still win because you will have a stronger econ. | ||
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Ideas
United States8117 Posts
generally carriers are a good transition from heavy sair/reaver builds. If he he has air dominance it's not good to try to counter with air units (sairs are really good), so you need to use defilers/queens to support your hydras as well as you can. scourge are risky but pay off pretty well if you can catch him offguard (IE sairs not there to kill them). If you want to go air vs it, ensnare + carapace upgrades are absolutely essential. Devourers are good but dont JUST get devourers. Mutas have a higher DPS with their splash, so it's good to just get a few devourers and mix them with your mutas because acid spores are really good. watch this game for good zerg air vs protoss air: | ||
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kineSiS-
Korea (South)1068 Posts
On May 03 2010 03:59 Papvin wrote: It seems like you don't play the devourers as they're supposed to be played. They're a support unit. Pure devourer is aweful against anything. And yes, devourers are not good against carriers, but they're imba against sairs, which the protoss will always have. OBVIOUSLY, you don't go pure devours... That'd be the most retarded thing ever. But the thing is unless you have pro gamer EAPM, you can't control, defilers + plague + swarm + hydras + scourge + mutaliks + devours at the same time. So the most efficient army at this level would be air units I.E. Scourge, Mutalisks, and Devours. | ||
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kineSiS-
Korea (South)1068 Posts
On May 03 2010 08:15 Ideas wrote: i don't know if it's considered legal or not but there's that plagued interceptors bug that stops interceptors from being deployed that works pretty good lol generally carriers are a good transition from heavy sair/reaver builds. If he he has air dominance it's not good to try to counter with air units (sairs are really good), so you need to use defilers/queens to support your hydras as well as you can. scourge are risky but pay off pretty well if you can catch him offguard (IE sairs not there to kill them). If you want to go air vs it, ensnare + carapace upgrades are absolutely essential. Devourers are good but dont JUST get devourers. Mutas have a higher DPS with their splash, so it's good to just get a few devourers and mix them with your mutas because acid spores are really good. watch this game for good zerg air vs protoss air: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIcqHlVfGnY Plagued interceptors are illegal. | ||
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MuffinDude
United States3837 Posts
One major flaw with hydra swarm is that they have so many corsairs that d web makes all your hydra worthless. | ||
GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
not on iccup >.> Bugs/tricks in game: Allowed to use: — Plague on interceptor — Units pressed through — drops to defuse mines — Mineral walk — Manner Pylon — Lurker hold position — Observer Over turret http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/sc_ladder_rules.html | ||
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Ideas
United States8117 Posts
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
Plagued interceptors are illegal. How is it possible for this to be enforced whatsoever? I mean, are you not allowed to plague carriers or something, what if you go to plague carriers and accidentally plague some interceptors, are you just S.O.L.? Seems like during a fight would be a common time to plague carriers, and its hard to imagine interceptors not getting plagud inadvertently. | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
What you should do is bring your forces to his base. In an elimination game, your pure dps to buildings (with your hydras) should far outclass his carriers. Since he will lose if he attempts to trade bases, he will have to engage your army with his carrier/sair. this is when the protoss gets to say "hydra imba". If you don't destroy his entire fleet or the majority of his production buildings, econ, or pylons by now and your attack force is wiped out, simply make another round of hydra defiler and continue. Your production speed of hydradefiler >>> carrier building speed. | ||
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Metaspace
Austria670 Posts
Later on, you could add defilers for dark swarm and plaguing carriers, but not really needed. | ||
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DarkSaieden
South Africa254 Posts
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NguN
Australia1322 Posts
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SubtleArt
2710 Posts
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AmstAff
Germany949 Posts
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