im suppose to cut scv thus 10/10 supply,rax,refinery.
i was practicing with a friend i made on iccup. i then realized how horrible i was executing it...he had 4 goons when i just started pushing out... soon he told me to try reg. fd....and i was able to make the push vs his three goons...
so obviously im fucking up somewhere. but i dont know where exactly. i may cut the scv at 10 but i dont know how to modify the standard fd timings... the liqui states he did a video (or showed publicly his variation yet i cannot find it?on google or youtube).
so can anyone elaborate on this? or should i abandon this and do strong fd (despite making it really weak towards fast tech builds??)
Well, I've never heard of this build, but unless you play at B level or higher, the 10 seconds faster isn't going to throw anyone off. I'd suggest you stick with the standard build. This is similar to proxying reavers/dt, it's only logical to do at extremely high levels because people know the non-proxy timing down to +/- 5 seconds, and the extra 10 seconds you gain from proxying can win you the game.
If you could post the replay it'd help. It's hard to know exactly where you went wrong without one.
This is a type of FD is generally used to attack during the timing before goon range. You can do a variation of strong FD with only 1 tank which will be later but safer. Hwasin's build can be done by waiting until around 250~350 minerals to build your supply depot, barracks and refinery all at once. This is very important as it maximizes your mining and allows you to build the factory earlier than 14 supply. This build is very vulnerable to early zealots and probe harass since you are very low on minerals and shouldn't build marines until after the factory begins. Also, you should scout after the factory begins because your economy will be very bad.
As you can see, this is a very risky build that requires you to do a large amount of damage early. I wouldn't suggest it, but it should work. Also, without a replay we can't see why your tanks are late.
As far as I know, you just cut scvs to get rax/gas at 10 and then factory at 14, and your tank pops like 10 seconds faster. I've never really done any research on the topic though.
This is an old video and the information might be dated, but you could try it out.
I don't recommend doing this 10 second faster FD build. It's rather bad for your economy compared to the normal FD build (and not to mention getting probe harassed). I would prefer to squeeze out a few extra scvs than to have a tank 10 seconds faster (which will probably end up not doing too much damage anyway).
this was the 10/10/10 with stylish on medusa strong fd opening
No. Strong FD is usually done with 9/10/10 (although it probably doesn't matter THAT much)
And the 10 sec faster FD is nice against 1 gate nexus, but not that good against anything else. I'hve done it a few times, but it hurts your economy ALOT for something that usually never kills the P anyway, besides a Strong FD is ALOT better against 1 gate nexus anyway.
And dont listen to Iazz, Flash and Fantasy are mostly doing FDs these days.
im suppose to cut scv thus 10/10 supply,rax,refinery.
i was practicing with a friend i made on iccup. i then realized how horrible i was executing it...he had 4 goons when i just started pushing out... soon he told me to try reg. fd....and i was able to make the push vs his three goons...
so obviously im fucking up somewhere. but i dont know where exactly. i may cut the scv at 10 but i dont know how to modify the standard fd timings... the liqui states he did a video (or showed publicly his variation yet i cannot find it?on google or youtube).
so can anyone elaborate on this? or should i abandon this and do strong fd (despite making it really weak towards fast tech builds??)
I added that build to liquipedia, but didn't have enough time to finish it nicely.
The thing is, you don't make supply at 9 like usually. You make it at 10 which will naturally make you supply stuck and the minerals will pile up. Then you use your minerals to make Barracks at 10 and refinery at 10. Then your supply finishes and you proceed like in a normal FD, except you're probably like 2 SCVs short.
ok so the quick fd isnt something i wanna really do i suppose. whats the downfall with strong fd other then quick techs will rape it. i mean will it put me that far behind in economics then regular fd?
On March 13 2010 02:03 heroyi wrote: ok so the quick fd isnt something i wanna really do i suppose. whats the downfall with strong fd other then quick techs will rape it. i mean will it put me that far behind in economics then regular fd?
It beats 1 gate nexus or 1 gate obs nexus and loses to everything else. In other words it pretty much sucks unless you are playing someone in a series who you know will 1 gate expand.
Siege expand is the best opening for both lower level and top players, there's really no reason to focus on anything else until you have it down pat.
This is one of those small things that you'd want to consider when the game has a small difference, like close v. far positions. Otherwise, it isn't worth cutting SCVs for.
On March 13 2010 02:03 heroyi wrote: ok so the quick fd isnt something i wanna really do i suppose. whats the downfall with strong fd other then quick techs will rape it. i mean will it put me that far behind in economics then regular fd?
It beats 1 gate nexus or 1 gate obs nexus and loses to everything else. In other words it pretty much sucks unless you are playing someone in a series who you know will 1 gate expand.
Siege expand is the best opening for both lower level and top players, there's really no reason to focus on anything else until you have it down pat.
ok but i just wanna add some mix to the bo list i wanna implement. it gets boring opening up the same bo everytime you know. i just want something new. i heard alot of things about fd and i was like lets give it a shot other then the 2fact.
I do a standard FD with no SCV cut where I go 3 fact after expanding but before ebay or siege mode, with an early academy. It's not very good against fast reaver, but it allows you to be really aggressive. Like, at the very least, you can force him to use his reaver to defend your push while you get turrets up. The only reason why I do FD is because it allows this transition into a fast push with a lot of vultures really nicely. Most iccup protosses don't do greedy builds any more, other than 12 nexus :|
Don't do either of those versions of FD. I'd recommend 12/12 or 11/12 for FD these days, and follow that up with 3-5 tank timing pressure into fast third and upgrades.
Siege expandings probably easier if you're slow and bad, so I'd stick to that until your hands are faster and you have a better idea of the game.
Edit: sorry Ver , I misread, thought you were saying that FD is not viable anymore.
On March 13 2010 02:03 heroyi wrote: ok so the quick fd isnt something i wanna really do i suppose. whats the downfall with strong fd other then quick techs will rape it. i mean will it put me that far behind in economics then regular fd?
It beats 1 gate nexus or 1 gate obs nexus and loses to everything else. In other words it pretty much sucks unless you are playing someone in a series who you know will 1 gate expand.
Siege expand is the best opening for both lower level and top players, there's really no reason to focus on anything else until you have it down pat.
ok but i just wanna add some mix to the bo list i wanna implement. it gets boring opening up the same bo everytime you know. i just want something new. i heard alot of things about fd and i was like lets give it a shot other then the 2fact.
Actually, I recommend doing the normal FD instead of siege expand because it helps you to establish some map control earlier on. Siege expand, while being the best for your economy forces you to be defensive and invites the Protoss to harass you.
On March 13 2010 02:03 heroyi wrote: ok so the quick fd isnt something i wanna really do i suppose. whats the downfall with strong fd other then quick techs will rape it. i mean will it put me that far behind in economics then regular fd?
It beats 1 gate nexus or 1 gate obs nexus and loses to everything else. In other words it pretty much sucks unless you are playing someone in a series who you know will 1 gate expand.
Siege expand is the best opening for both lower level and top players, there's really no reason to focus on anything else until you have it down pat.
ok but i just wanna add some mix to the bo list i wanna implement. it gets boring opening up the same bo everytime you know. i just want something new. i heard alot of things about fd and i was like lets give it a shot other then the 2fact.
Actually, I recommend doing the normal FD instead of siege expand because it helps you to establish some map control earlier on. Siege expand, while being the best for your economy forces you to be defensive and invites the Protoss to harass you.
that is exactly what i mean. 2fact is too slow for my taste so im gonna try this shit out
EPT
