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Double Extractor Trick

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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1 2 Next All
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
February 06 2010 03:20 GMT
#1
I was just thinking today that it would be kind of a cool build to instead of going 9 pool or 9-extractor trick-10pool, why not try something where you do a double extractor trick at your nat and main at 9? This ends you with 11/9 pop, which is pretty solid, and you can then send the drone that made the extractor at your nat out to scout as a slightly delayed 9drone scout.

11 drones is solid enough to do a 2nd hatch and have similar economy to a 12hatch, but without the time wasted on the lord.

This just seems like a cool idea, And I've never seen it done. What do you guys think of it?
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
da_head
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada3350 Posts
February 06 2010 03:35 GMT
#2
does that math work out? (i.e. do u end up with more minerals, and are your buildings too delayed?)

try it out and let us know
When they see MC Probe, all the ladies disrobe.
TimmyMac
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada499 Posts
February 06 2010 03:37 GMT
#3
Doesn't seem useful.

Try it and see how the timings work out in your replay for 6 lings, or any other transition you like compared with a standard opening.
R A V
Profile Joined November 2009
United States217 Posts
February 06 2010 03:37 GMT
#4
I think it's inefficient if I remember correctly. I think I read even doing an extractor trick once is barely worth it.
Jaedong? More like JDAWG
nodule
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada931 Posts
February 06 2010 03:43 GMT
#5
I think the lost minerals + lost mining time would make it unworthwhile, but feel free to prove us wrong.
hayata2.0
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada655 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-06 03:48:52
February 06 2010 03:47 GMT
#6
It might be better on a map like Vampire with two geysers in your main. You'd lose less mining time. Then again, maps like that aren't common.
Archaic
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States4024 Posts
February 06 2010 03:51 GMT
#7
I remember Combat-EX used to do extractor + creep colony. It works for him... Gotta be for pros.
Nightmarjoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
United States3360 Posts
February 06 2010 03:54 GMT
#8
I don't think gas trick is ever useful except with 4/5pool, you lose 12.5 minerals by canceling + any minerals you would've gotten with the drone had it not done the gas trick. I don't think having that drone slightly sooner makes up for that loss. With an all-in ling build it can be useful, but not for drones imo.
aka Lyra; My favourites: July, Stork, Draco, MistrZZZ, TheStc, LastShadow - www.broodwarmaps.net - for all your mapping needs; check my stream: high masters mech terran: twitch.tv/lyrathegreat
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
February 06 2010 03:59 GMT
#9
I'm going to go time it, i'll be back
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
m1LkmaN
Profile Joined January 2010
Australia82 Posts
February 06 2010 04:04 GMT
#10
If you time a drone scout to be at the natural's gas at the right time then sure, otherwise probably not
LxRogue
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States1415 Posts
February 06 2010 04:28 GMT
#11
It's not going to work out. If you did this when 9 pooling, you would only have 2 larvae when your pool finishes, and your overlord would be late since you spent an extra 50 minerals.

Plus you are losing a bunch of mining time by sending that drone out so far.
Catch]22
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden2683 Posts
February 06 2010 04:31 GMT
#12
On February 06 2010 13:28 LxRogue wrote:
It's not going to work out. If you did this when 9 pooling, you would only have 2 larvae when your pool finishes, and your overlord would be late since you spent an extra 50 minerals.

Plus you are losing a bunch of mining time by sending that drone out so far.


I think he means like 11pooling without an overlord, so he wont start his pool until after this
Adeny
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Norway1233 Posts
February 06 2010 04:39 GMT
#13
On February 06 2010 12:54 Nightmarjoo wrote:
I don't think gas trick is ever useful except with 4/5pool, you lose 12.5 minerals by canceling + any minerals you would've gotten with the drone had it not done the gas trick. I don't think having that drone slightly sooner makes up for that loss. With an all-in ling build it can be useful, but not for drones imo.


What now? Gas trick when you 4/5 pool? For what purpose?
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
February 06 2010 04:41 GMT
#14
5pool
make two drones
make six lings
gas trick
make two more lings
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
February 06 2010 04:47 GMT
#15
Well, Its not inefficient (I don't think), but the advantages are razor thin. Event the difference between a 12 hatch with no extractor trick and one with is only around 3 seconds to lings and maybe a tiny bit more cash. So I'm not really sure what to think with the double trick 11 hatch, it is faster than a 12 hatch, but you end with several less drones, and it is still slower than a 9 hatch. I dunno.

As far as i can tell, it is a legitimate build, probably not bad if you are planning on alot of lings or a 9drone scout, but its certainly not anything special.

Timing stuff like this is very hard and time consuming, and I didn't measure alot of factors, but this seems to be my conclusion.

I'll probably still do it occasionally, makes me feel like a pro
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-06 04:55:16
February 06 2010 04:53 GMT
#16
I've tried it, and timed it with normal openings, and it's not worth it.

edit: To describe better, I usually scout with my 9th drone, so what I tried was send out 9th drone to scout, and on the way, double extractor trick into 11hatch... etc. It's just not as good as a normal 12hatch.
ix
Profile Joined July 2003
United Kingdom184 Posts
February 06 2010 05:23 GMT
#17
I don't think gas trick is ever useful except with 4/5pool, you lose 12.5 minerals by canceling + any minerals you would've gotten with the drone had it not done the gas trick.


How much mining time roughly in seconds does it cost you and how much mining time do you gain? It shouldn't be that hard to get a theoretical answer, you're looking at around 64 minerals per minute at that stage per worker.
Chen
Profile Joined June 2009
United States6344 Posts
February 06 2010 05:37 GMT
#18
could you use this instead of a 12-hatch? how much faster, if at all, would you get the expo up?
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
February 06 2010 07:43 GMT
#19
wouldn't it be better to use a creep colony ? considering it is a tad bit more expensive but you don't ahve to go outside your base and lose tons of mining time
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32274 Posts
February 06 2010 08:27 GMT
#20
On February 06 2010 12:54 Nightmarjoo wrote:
I don't think gas trick is ever useful except with 4/5pool, you lose 12.5 minerals by canceling + any minerals you would've gotten with the drone had it not done the gas trick. I don't think having that drone slightly sooner makes up for that loss. With an all-in ling build it can be useful, but not for drones imo.


Why would you do the gas trick when going 4 pool?
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