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Being a relatively low-average player, I am wondering about the concept of expansions- playing Toss now (from playing Zerg before), I have a tough time knowing when and how much to expand. I generally expand around 40 control first time- basically when the opening strategies have been laid out, then I'm at a loss on when to expand again- typically after I feel I'm on even ground.
Toss seems to play mostly reactionary with their army- you can't really go around attacking with goons and zeals efficiently- just mass and flank; does this mean the really only ideal time to expand for toss is basically when you shut down an attack? Or also in situations where they are unable to attack you (i.e. 1 fac cc)?
Where should you expand? Naturals are no-brainers; however, what about it when people expand all over the map (i.e. zerg double expands after killing terran's push). Do you expand only where your army can stop a ground assault generally? So like 6 o clock if you are at 9 and 3 o clock if you are at 12?
Lastly, can someone explain worker/expansion dynamics? Conceptually when/why should you stop pumping peons (when you need army units?)- how do you know how much time it takes to get an advantage from the expansion- there was another post that talked at some point about timing your expansions- what's the logic behind that?
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Valhalla18444 Posts
I follow a rigorous schedule of Expo-When-He-Can't-Stop-You.
Naturally i take steps to ensure his can't-stop-you-ness 
IE after he fails a big attack, or loses a large amount of troops to a big attack. If you know he isn't going to be attacking anytime soon, grab an expo. That's how I do it.
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It all depends on your playing style, there are no set rules for expanding. Generally, if you feel like playing defensive, you expand before your opponent does, try to live and then outproduce him. If offensive, you skip on probes and go for units, and expand later than normal.
As for timing, you know you've got an advantage when your scouting confirms an advantage, eg if he has no expansions and you have one working for more than 1-2 minutes, and you've been spending all your money, you're bound to have some advantage:p
Where you expand depends again, if you see a dropship flying around in pvt and dont want to go shuttle just yet, or have only templar tech at the time you'll want to grab another main, or pvz you might go for an island while playing with corsairs early on, or any number for other reasons for you not to go for the usual natural+min only exps.
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eek i basically follow draegers OLDDD advice on expanding. in the context of terran, u NEED a 3/2 ratio of expandsto MAKE sure ur ahead. this is a guideline of course dont just expo constantly and have no troops. toss is expensive no doubt but they can really power with 1-2 more expands than the terran.
v. zerg grab wateva expand they give u ^^ even if u dont NEED it yet (even if u just hold on to it with a lone dt or a grid of a few cannons) cuz if u become severely behind in expos (they have 3/2 ratio on u) ur gonna be hardpressed to come back. against another toss just keep same with him and add 1 more expo if u have advantage.
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i like what casper said the best, altho if you have experience/knowledge with a matchup you'll have a pretty good idea of when those "else expand" events are going to occur and be able to play around them
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hum casper only describes the aggresive player, elky eg doesnt fit this :o
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Hmm..you expand when you feel like doing it
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Wow Freez, you're gosu.
Freez has godly macro btw. lol
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Mydnyte~+_+ today 2vs2+_+;;;
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Norway10161 Posts
easiest way to be sure is to expand when you ganed some kind of adventage, right?
e.g if you are forcing the zerg to ling for a ling time with 2 gates you can expand.
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Once u start playing more and more expanding will be like scratching ur left nut it comes natural and u just know when to (unless your elky and you make command centers all game and find a spot for them)
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On February 20 2004 11:53 ToKoreaWithLove wrote:
easiest way to be sure is to expand when you ganed some kind of adventage, right?
e.g if you are forcing the zerg to ling for a ling time with 2 gates you can expand.
Giving advice to the enemy? So bm 
The proper answer is: If you aren't choosing zerg, die!
I can't help here, why am I posting. I love Norway.
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Sweden33719 Posts
As a rule of thumb, dont expand before 30, and not after 40 o_O (And don't double expand if you see a terran doing 1fac cc and non stop tank from a fast second fac (or if he seems to be going for a fast push right after his expo etc. Then power up!
Meh, 1 expo = 8 gates, 2 expo = 12 gates.
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There is not a rule when you should exp or no. Just play many many games and you will feel when is the right moment to exp
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On February 14 2004 17:01 zdragon wrote:
Being a relatively low-average player, I am wondering about the concept of expansions- playing Toss now (from playing Zerg before), I have a tough time knowing when and how much to expand. I generally expand around 40 control first time- basically when the opening strategies have been laid out, then I'm at a loss on when to expand again- typically after I feel I'm on even ground.
Toss seems to play mostly reactionary with their army- you can't really go around attacking with goons and zeals efficiently- just mass and flank; does this mean the really only ideal time to expand for toss is basically when you shut down an attack? Or also in situations where they are unable to attack you (i.e. 1 fac cc)?
Where should you expand? Naturals are no-brainers; however, what about it when people expand all over the map (i.e. zerg double expands after killing terran's push). Do you expand only where your army can stop a ground assault generally? So like 6 o clock if you are at 9 and 3 o clock if you are at 12?
Lastly, can someone explain worker/expansion dynamics? Conceptually when/why should you stop pumping peons (when you need army units?)- how do you know how much time it takes to get an advantage from the expansion- there was another post that talked at some point about timing your expansions- what's the logic behind that?
One thing I can quickly tell you, if he goes 1 Fact CC STOP ALL SPENDING OF MONEY IMMEDIATELY AND MAKE TWO NEXUSES. This makes him attack and you can own the attack.
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Germany / USA16648 Posts
a good terran will kill u if u double expand
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not if a good toss double expands and he doesnt time it right
it's all about timing
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On February 29 2004 08:48 Carnac wrote:
a good terran will kill u if u double expand
Then why do good gamers do it... Don't be stupid.
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if terran double cc...i usually 4 zeal shuttle and 6 goons +_+;; try to finish the game right there +_+....if it fails +_+;;;well...trust your macro skills -_-
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On February 29 2004 11:06 FreeZEternal wrote:
if terran double cc...i usually 4 zeal shuttle and 6 goons +_+;; try to finish the game right there +_+....if it fails +_+;;;well...trust your macro skills -_-
That's the other thing if Terran goes fact/cc is that you need to get a shuttle pronto.
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EPT
