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So i decided to start a new topic about this. As i'm random player it's interesting for me in every matchup. I'll try to give a description of what happens in every matchup when the opponent offensive gases, and i'm interested what do you think about it. I'd like to add, that i've seen a way of countering the offensive gas: preventing it (when you see the opponent worker comin to your base, you immediately start a gas). Is this always a good idea?
In general, when the opponent spends money for an off gas (assuming that he does not cancel it.. that's a different story), he must've spent less money on workers/army. That's what you must use, but it's not that simple how. You could attack but he could have static defense, that is powerfull in early game, or you could power and you could die to fast tech.
And now for every matchup:
ZvZ: He off gas and delays your muta. You can try to kill him with lings (speed later than him) but this does not work always, he can sunken up etc.
ZvP: He delays your tech, and teches himself. You don't have lurker in time vs +1 speedzeal, muta vs reaver etc. You must turtle with some sunkens -> he can expand.
ZvT: That's a pain in the ass. Delays your muta so he can cliff, or delays lurk and he can 3rax mm.
PvP: Delays obs/reaver/dt. He goes fast reaver you have to go goons, he can defend his exp with reaver tech. You can try to zeal rush, but usually a battery on ramp+micro is enough for him.
PvT: Another pain in the ass. Delays obs, makes super-hard to stop bamboo/double upgraded vult rush.
PvZ: Delays tech, i've seen this very rarely. It seems to be effective with a hydra rush, cause he will have speedzeal/storm later.
TvT: Uhh. That's the most tuff one. Later vult, later tank, later goli, later everything.
TvP: Umm ya. This is hard too. Delays your tank so it's hard to stop 2gate rangegoon, or he can proxy reaver drop which can be hard too. Dt drop can be painfull too.
TvZ: Delays your tank vs lurk so you must use bunkers, he can expand freely meanwhile. A rine+scv rush could work sometimes if microed well and he doesn't see you in your way.
Thanks in advance for your advicec responses, i hope this wasn't posted (too many times) yes :D
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If he does offensive gas, 99% of the time I return him the favor with my own offensive gas (PvP)
(PvT)When the terran does this, I just grab 5-6 probe and attack the gas when he is starting to make it, so it is gone in like...5 sec?
(PvZ)I really don't care -_-;;
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1. In PvP he could already have a gas so u can't off gas yourself.
2. PvT:It sounds ok, but you lose more minerals (the ones the probes would give to you) that him (like 25 if cancel)
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other thing you can do in pvt is pylon his wallin and zealot rush him
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Firstly this belongs to Strategy Forum, no doubt some admin will move it there
As for comments...
ZvZ: If it happens and you get some 400-500 gas behind and dont kill him with lings, its a huge advantage in muta fights. But in maps such as temple it rarely happens, since you gotta send a drone quite early on to get his gas(but if he tries to 9pool without gas he's in for it:p )
ZvT and ZvP its of no consequence unless you're 12v3(and not 3v12 i think) since you'll expand early enough to get the 2nd geyser.
PvP off gas means he either skips a zealot or delays his tech, so its not THAT much of a bother.
PvT scv must go directly to your base and leave from his base really early on, since you gas at 11, I've never seen it happen really:o
PvZ its more of a keep your zeals in your base thing, he could always go forge and try to exp though with his zlots still attacking you early on.
TvT same as PvT, terran's scv must leave base real early and get lucky to make off gas, if it happens its not as severe a situation as in zvz though.
TvP it only happens in 12v3 situations, and its very annoying, since protoss forces you to not attack very early on, still thats the only drawback you get from it, doesnt hurt mid game(if you dont die to some fast reaver drop)
TvZ same case with PvZ me thinks, more of a dont bunker me move than anything, terrans have many options left without gassing early on anyway.
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(PvZ)I really don't care -_-;;
Yeah no shit. I just mass lots and kill him while he's teching. That'll teach him to take out my early gas templar rush! haha...
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On February 13 2004 05:33 Overlord wrote:
1. In PvP he could already have a gas so u can't off gas yourself.
2. PvT:It sounds ok, but you lose more minerals (the ones the probes would give to you) that him (like 25 if cancel)
If toss already has gas I usually give him pressure with a two gate zealot. While I'm doing that, I start minning gas and then add cyber,robo ob,1 more gate and mass.And of course you have to stop probe production to keep making more units.+_+;;
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On February 13 2004 05:39 Chuiu wrote: Yeah no shit. I just mass lots and kill him while he's teching. That'll teach him to take out my early gas templar rush! haha...
LOL thats right~haaha
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from my experience , offensive gas only works in TvT , PvT , sometimes TvP and rarely ZvZ (if he goes late pool, which is pretty rare)
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On February 13 2004 05:37 Taguchi wrote: Firstly this belongs to Strategy Forum, no doubt some admin will move it there
Ooops right, sorry
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Norway28781 Posts
okay what I do I guess (although it always depends on what im scouting from him etc)
tvp = I counter with 2 rax rine and attack with like 6 rines and 8 scvs. pretty much always works unless you fuck up / he does really really good with probes (which kinda requires you to fuck up though) OR if he goes cannon, but if you see a forge from him really fast (pretty much the only way he can safely defend if he took your gas and gassed himself) I stop rines at 6, kill his gas and expand instead. then acad and marine range+bunker to defend vs ranged goon while I play safe and power (but also building m&m so I can deny any reckless expanding from him. )
basically, I like being gassed tvp. cause that strat works like a charm. 
tvt = well this one is hard. I think the best way to defend against it would be taking your gas before he takes it. =[ you're kinda screwed if your fact is 2 minutes later and you have way less gas than him.
tvz = just rally rines next to it and when it finishes, (if he doesn't cancel) attack with some scvs too. then gas immediately and honestly your build isn't particulary slower than a normal build would be. going exp or 3 raxing is also an option tho.
zvz = well personally I tend to expand in zvz so I can just take my exp gas if I want to ^^
actually that goes for all my zerg matchups.
but on maps like nostalgia where you have no gas in natural, it's way harder. zvz I'd probably end up either going all ling and also send 3 drones or so to build sunkens or powering up hard. I sometimes delay my gas until my opponent's lair is almost finished anyway, cause I tend to go hydra-.-
pvt = sometimes I counter with 1 gate zealot + forge and cannon below his depot. depends on his skill tho cause usually really good terran defend against it. 
expanding is also an option
pvp = counter with 2 gate zealot. he has to 2 gate zealot as well to defend considering the 100 he spent on gassing me, and then you can just kill his gas in your main and you won't be far behind, some in gas, but not in tech.
pvz well that's really annoying if you're zealot rushing, cause you can't have some zealots in your main attacking the gas, then you won't have enough to actually do any damage. if possible you can just try blocking his ramp if he didn't expand and then let your zealots kill the gas.. basically I think you just have to know whether your zealot rush will give you a big advantage or not. if it will, you attack, if it won't you attack gas. : D
I guess it's most annoying if he combines it with a 9 pool speedling into fast lurker, cause then you have to block your ramp immediately thus you can't kill the gas right away :E
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imo most of what you wrote doesnt make too many sense
in pvp pvz tvz tvt and tvp off gas doesnt make sense. (1st race is the one the off gases)
tvt and tvp because the opponent will already have taken his gas before your scout arrives if he isnt newb in which case off gas wouldnt make any sense either because you wont need it to win
pvp if you can steal his vespine it means that he didnt go for a strat in which he would need vespine early so ( like fast exp, 2gate zeal rush ) so taking his vespine would just cost you 100 mins that you might need to survive his rush or kill his exp. And if either of that happens the game is usually yours, whether or not you took his gas.
pvz and tvz it's basically useless to take his main gas because he will either have vespine at his expansion early enough or if he went for chokehatch in zvt he will already have his vespine taken when you arrive if he isnt newb
However if he decides to take your vespine anyway it means that he wants to hurt you with early tech so just prepare for the common early tech harass (like going hydra den before lair vs cors or putting up a spore colony if you're 100% sure ; getting lair as fast as possible and, depending on what you scouted, put up a sunk in your main/near your cliff or getting a few early hydras to prevent him cliffing/dropping your main/ going 2port wraiths/2fac vultures.)
In any case off gassing doesnt delay you long enough to not be prepared for anything like that. and also if he did it just to fake any early tech and goes for standard 2gate/2rax you shouldnt have any problems either with proper scouting .
so for the matchups in which off gas changes the game situation more or less drastically.
zvz: i'm not too experienced at zvz but from my knowledge/common sense what you can do if he took your vespine is either rush him hard with 1-0 lings or 3hatch lings and hope that you will kill him before he gets mutas or try to pressure him a while and go for scourge/ling which obviously needs less vespine or go for a fast expand and try to even his vespine advantage by taking early 2nd gas.
tvp: probably the matchup where off gas effects your game the most.
Theres just too many possibilties you have after being off gassed to list all, the most common ones are
-scv+rine or m&m rushing him
-simply kill his extractor asap with scvs+1rax rines and live with the later fac
- using the additional mins for a cc and try to survive with fast exp
My tip would be to not waste any scvs on killing the extractor and just go for tanks+ m&ms with good econ.
m&m or rine only will most probably be countered easily by a good p and a fast exp should die to one as well.
pvz: The only point in taking a toss' gas in this matchup is when you see him going for a hard 2gate rush. If you feel comfortable and safe vs such a rush you might wanna sacrifice the 50 mins because they really delay his vespine for a long time since he has to send all his zealots to your base and probably went for low econ so he needs all his probes at mins to be able to constantly pump zealots.
Best counter then imo is either rushing even harder and hope to kill him right away/do enough damage or to go for 2gate+forge expansion with late temps
tvz: Basically it simply reduces your possible strats. A tankpush/cliffdrop/early maindrop will usually be too late to do any significant damage so you can choose to either go
-fast exp
-3rax rines (with or without +1 attack)
-simply getting fact/port/dship/vessel a few minutes later and relying on a good 2rax m&m force.
However i think off gas is usually not a question of how good it is but of how it fits your style.for example if you feel like dying a lot to early drops or tankpushs in zvt but can handle a fast expanding terran quite well you should off gas whenever you can.
Of course off gasing can often ruin your opponents game plan, especially in pvt and zvz. However I've seen a lot of pro tvps and zvz where one player gets off gassed and still rapes his opponent easily, so imo the more experienced/skilled the player is the easier he'll be able to adjust
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Thanks to your responses, feel free to add more. I'd like to add, that w/ zerg i usually go hatch in main 1st (i hate rine scv rushes when early exping) so i can't rely on my exp gas. And on the other hand it happened to me once, that the terran off gased both my exp and my main 
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Eri, I think good micro P typically rape any sort of two rax strat off an offensive gas. If you've ever seen the PuSan vs XellOs 12/3 rep, Xellos plays it really well until he has bad control vs Reaver, loses a lot of SCVs and its pretty much over from there. Either way if P can get 5 goons your m&m won't work.
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i build my gas if his worker getting near it, unless i dont care (depending on matchup), my choice...
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Norway28781 Posts
obsolete I think good p usually rapes zealot+ scv rush
but not if he offensive gasses. having 1 zealot less or simply getting a core significantly later makes a pretty big difference.
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M&M melt goons without support.
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TvT - If you are offensive gassed leave the game, you can't win. Shouldn't ever happen though.
TvP - Go 2 Rax M&M, the ground strength will overwhelm him and force him to play defensive.
TvZ- Early expand (easy to do if he doesn't 9 pool) out of two rax.
In any of these cases remember to send 3 SCVs WITHOUT DELAY to kill the offensive gas.
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offensive gas in zvt wont make much of a difference. if i ever get my first gas taken, i'd happyly switch to 3 hat and mass drones first.
Upgrade ling's speed then lurkers+spire at once. With that build, i can normally stop anything the terran throws at me...unless its 12v3 or 3v12...
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On February 14 2004 11:47 x[ReaPeR]x wrote:
TvT - If you are offensive gassed leave the game, you can't win. Shouldn't ever happen though.
TvP - Go 2 Rax M&M, the ground strength will overwhelm him and force him to play defensive.
TvZ- Early expand (easy to do if he doesn't 9 pool) out of two rax.
In any of these cases remember to send 3 SCVs WITHOUT DELAY to kill the offensive gas.
lol, didnt nada got "gassed" vs xello in the ktf semi-final? And he outplayed xello like he was just retired from fastest$$$
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Valhalla18444 Posts
When i get offensive gassed by a P, i go 3hatch ling->burrow/speed for shenanigans, or expo and take a gas there.
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hmmm i personally dont get too fussed by people gassing.
often many players begin to TECH hard when they gas, which can pay off unless a 2 or 3 gate zeal rams down their ass ^^
thats when im p, i dont care if someone gasses. as reaper said 3 workers or so can take down a gas fairly quick.
when im t its a bit more of an issue, but then again if ur the sort whos worried bout that put ur rax near ur ramp and if ur paranoid (which it sounds some of the people in here are) then throw an scv on the ramp and keep him there.
once a T gassed me at 12 (he was 3, LT) so i popped a second rax, floated em both to his base and started to bunker down. he was upgrading vults at the time so that didnt help him then i went straight for tank/scv/rine pushing and managed to bewilder him into defeat... if someone cheeses me, i cheese em back :p
i was obbing another game where my friend was gassed. the P then found 4 bats a few minutes later take out his min line in less than 2 seconds from a mysterious rax (and he couldnt break the bunker w/2 rine on my friends ramp)... gg 
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I think it's very effective when you o-gas and then cancel it at the very end, and perhaps try to build/cancel again. In that event, you lose an insignificant amount of $$ but delay your opponent's tech effectively. It's especially aggrivating when I'm T and a Protoss does that to me.
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Terran can do it even more effectevely, cause scv can just leave the construction.
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EPT
