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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
Im a bit unsure about when I should pool. Basicly I'm no big fan of 9 pools either way, dosnt seem to be worth the sac in econ. 12 pool on the other hand, is a clear favorite. Im thinking 12 pool 12 hatch build. The part I am unsure about is really vs toss, because I fear that a strong zealot rusher can kill my low ling numbers if I do pool first. Thoughs on this? Preferably from good players. | ||
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PPV_Jimmy
United States641 Posts
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
If they proxy their gates, or its close positions like 12/3 on LT, or you're too slow/bad with lings, you'll die to 9/10gate  basically you go.. 9/9 overlord -> Ovie hatches, make 2 drones and send one off your minerals to make a hatchery So 11/17 hatchery 10/17 pool When your 2nd hatch is at around... 1000 hp or so send 2 drones and make sunkens, and make sure you have 6 lings or so asap after your pool finishes. I dunno how great anyone else feels this build is, but with some work on the timing I've made it impervious to 9/10 gate unless they proxy (ZERIUS?!?!)  | ||
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DevAzTaYtA
Oman2005 Posts
you just spent 250 + whatever your drones would have mined for nothing! | ||
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
Good point though, Someone who doesn't play like me (And I don't mean "bad"!  ) would just be wasting money | ||
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STIMEY d okgm fish
Canada6140 Posts
so i dont think u should only have one build. you should keep them guessing, to some extent, and play the odds. sometimes you need to screw them up, make them think twice about trying to do some stupid stuff easily killable by a rush. and the same way, sometimes you need to do something to make them think twice about not rushing you. you're guessing blind early on. the basic decision is: do you want to play to beat a given rush (beat meaning, you end up ahead, if they do it), or do you want to play to beat something different and be vulnerable (or worse) to that rush? you know what the worst rushes they might do will be, and now you decide what to do. and again, it goes back to you sizing up your opponent: what kind of player are they? so i would just 9 pool every game. you can switch back to drones and get a hatch or a fast lair or whatever you like, but you can also rush the countless fuckers who try to cheese you or early expo or tech too slowly etc. etc. | ||
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
On February 04 2004 21:34 FakeSteve)307 wrote: Well, Devaz, the way I play ZvP the sunkens are part of the plan anyway, so its really a good idea for my style of zvp. Good point though, Someone who doesn't play like me (And I don't mean "bad"! ) would just be wasting money Build one instead untill you see what he makes:o! | ||
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
On February 04 2004 21:51 stimey d okgm fish wrote: so i would just 9 pool every game. you can switch back to drones and get a hatch or a fast lair or whatever you like, but you can also rush the countless fuckers who try to cheese you or early expo or tech too slowly etc. etc. Which is why I would 12 pool instead, fast pool for the greedy. Gives you a much quicker 3rd hatch if needed. Still wondering tho. Not like I can't do 9 pool, I just don't like it .. | ||
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
On February 04 2004 20:20 FakeSteve)307 wrote: I dunno how great anyone else feels this build is, but with some work on the timing I've made it impervious to 9/10 gate unless they proxy (ZERIUS?!?!) This build should be good, its pretty standard It's what I've always done also, but I just like the option of a fast pool now and then, if for nothing else to put toss on defensive. But Im not really sure if I sac too much econ / lings with pool first.. | ||
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STIMEY d okgm fish
Canada6140 Posts
so if ur looking for 1 build to always do, it depends on where ur getting ur players from, will they know you? will they all be good, or will some be worse than you? will they know they are worse than you (i.e. will they try desperate shit?) this is how you decide when to pool, unless you strictly want to go safety rush and try to outskill them (the ilnp way) | ||
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SoMuchBetter
Australia10606 Posts
9pool speedlings is my favourite zvz strat and i like microing lings against protoss if i can get up their ramp :O | ||
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GroT
Belgium3003 Posts
it's never fun to lose in 5 mins right? | ||
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pheered.user
United States2603 Posts
when i "play" zerg i go 9pool every game and than put 2nd hatch at a safe expo defense place than i expo like art[s.r] did i have no idea why but it seems like you actually get units faster this way =\ | ||
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STIMEY d okgm fish
Canada6140 Posts
on the other extreme, if all you want is fast, many zerglings early, you might want to hatch as early as 7 or 8 (pool probably on 9, replace drone, then 1-3 lords depending on how long term u want lings), obviously hurting your economy but you'll sure get to 12+ zerglings faster than he expects, whatever that is worth. so somewhere in between, i dunno. how long term are you looking, and what short term strats of your opponent do you want to "take your chances" with? so zvp, the worst you expect him to do is 9/10 gate right? the fastest zeals he could do, if he was suicidal, would be like dual gate at 6, proxied, so if ur at 9, or at 6 and you send lord to 9, you can hatch a little later and be okay, provided he didn't proxy (drone scout), but if you're at 12 or 3, you send lord to 12 or 3, and you wait until you see if he's there or not, right? if you see him you build pool i think? or do you just always do an earlier hatch from that spot (like 7 8 or 9)? you could 9 lord and then 9 pool from there, too. if he's not there then he has to attack from 6, or worse, 9. and i dont know the answer i just said stuff u already know :/ | ||
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FroZZoR
China925 Posts
it's really good against any build except for 10 12 gate, but who does that anyway nowadays o-o | ||
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pheered.user
United States2603 Posts
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STIMEY d okgm fish
Canada6140 Posts
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
On February 05 2004 10:35 FroZZoR wrote: i prefer 10/9 hatch/pool with extractor trick it's really good against any build except for 10 12 gate, but who does that anyway nowadays o-o Against all races? Or only against toss? What do you think about 12 pool 12 exp vs terran? | ||
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Commander{+}
United States2878 Posts
tvz: 12 hatch, 11 pool zvz: 12 hatch 11 pool or 12 pool 13 hatch | ||
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AutumnLight
Ukraine2488 Posts
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FroZZoR
China925 Posts
this owns 9/10 gate, at least if they can't delay your hatch with a probe(i hate that when i use this build), it also is very good vs tech. in ZvT i'd just say do 12 hatch 11 pool, only build pool first if they send their scout and harrass your exp drone with an scv. | ||
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Casper...
Liberia4948 Posts
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STIMEY d okgm fish
Canada6140 Posts
it's interesting, people don't realize that their "hardcore" ling pumps and rushes and builds are actually pretty middle of the road, allowing them plenty of chance to afford teching up and expanding etc. | ||
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