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December 5th, 2009
Update!!!!
I apologize for the long delay, but after 4 reformats, 2 trojans, looking for my cd key, going through 3 different wireless usb(i know they're bad TT don't yell at me!), and a lot of cryihng due to my inadequacy in anything computer related, I finally(XXfingers) got everything to work!
That being said I will be streaming this lesson tonight at 8pm EST or 10am KST. Please tune in if you get the chance to as I will be going over why we should analyze maps and actually analyzing maps! I might open up questions afterwards and have a day8esk style, stealing some format from the legend himself!
That being said I hope to see you all tonight/tomorrow morning. It will be on demand so no worries if you msis it :-) Love you all!
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Hello everybody! This is Andre aka Gretorp aka Pr0terg and I'm here to share with you all my methods of map analysis and the formation of Plans. First off let me thank everyone that donated me and supported me going to IEF. I appreciate it so much. Now let me tell you all a bit before you go ahead and look at what I have done.
Currently, I have made a document of what I plan to teach. This will be your theoretical text book, or I at least hope to have it that way. In my opinion, learning is best when we have some learning material to base things off of, hence liquidpedia. Learning by mass gaming is quite inefficient, and I hope that as you learn to plan and analyze maps this will help immensely.
I plan on teaching and lecturing on this subject where I will discuss what the document says plus I will explain things more in detail.
The lecture will be up online as soon as I fix my internet so I can stream the lecture and have it saved, but currently, my internet has been so bad that I can't even stream anything without immense lag.
So why even learn Map analysis and forming plans? Having a goal oriented mindset will give you purpose while playing, and allows you to think how to optomize your actions to achieve the specific goal. For example, if you were just told to build, you woulnd't know what to do. Do I make SCVs or do I just make Battle Cruisers? When I tell you that you must kill the opposing player, now we start to prioritize what we make. This concept explains how a goal oriented mindset improves your play.
Due to the sheer mass of the subject on Map analysis, I will also be splitting it up into parts. I originally had this lecture as one of my lessons I would teach for Terran vs Protoss, however I need to expand it to more match ups for it to be more applicable to the community. This is Part 1.
I also use one example and try to generalize. This is logically is fundamentally incorrect, but by chance the logic does retain for most maps in my opinion.
I will keep you posted on when the lecture will happen.
Here is a link where you can get the document. Please read it over if you get the chance. That will probably help more when I lecture.
http://www.teampandemic.net/features/149
Comments, criticism, questions, concerns are always welcome!
Thank you all again.
Sincerely,
Andre
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Great work - will use the suggestions to analyze the TSL maps, and hoping for you to tackle some of those in your lecture. Take care.
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This is great! Will you be giving any lessons for analyzing maps from a Zerg point of view as well?
Thanks again!
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I plan on doing TvP PvZ and ZvT. It will take a lot of time however, so please be patient :-)
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Nice! I'm really looking forward to those too.
Thanks for putting all of this work together!
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
great stuff Gretorp. I'm looking forward to checking this out.
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Wow, that's fucking massive! Thanks! 
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rh3 suckors but looks kewl
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awesome thanks
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Finished reading, its brilliant.
Very indepth, and the diagrams are extremely helpful.
Big thanks
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Thank you. I realize that I couldn't talk about EVERYTHING in the text, but rest assured that I will in the lecture :-)
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Look at this sexy beast
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Thank you, I've just read this guide. Definitely helpful and a good read. Once again, thanks.
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For all those who doubted him giving back to the community, the evidence is staring back at you.
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United Kingdom12041 Posts
Thanks! I'll give this a read over later. :>
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
wow sweet writeup, looks really interestin i read a few pages :D:D
thanks!
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Very nice. Glad my donation is going to some use. 
Keep them coming, Andre!
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Nice article, thanks for sharing!
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downloaded: A few pages in... good stuff so far andre. Great work bro <3
-Life
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Thanks for the guide, has helped my pvt.
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AWESOME write-up. Someone make this kid a banner ^_^
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just finished reading it. Great read... I as a Protoss have difficulty with this kind of expanding.
I thought you were going to also put some key positions to mining with vults too, as they can inmensely aid against a counter attack. By doing this you leave Protoss with either a very slow conter attack or a direct fast counter against your already well positioned units.
I am looking forward for the PvZ guide man, as I am sure this will aid me greatly in my already best MU lol
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I feel like it would benefit this guide to talk about the likely protoss openings/play styles you will see on a map, as it tends to define the flow of the game, and can make certain styles of play not viable.
IE, destination is proxy heavy, with frequent 12 nexus, while maps like Luna frown on 12 nex and proxies, causing the toss to usually double expand with a very safe 1 gate tech opening. Some time is devoted to speaking of why arbs are good on the map, but are 2 base or 3 base arbs better? Or even later arbs? Etc. Things like this matter because you won't want to prepare exclusively 4 fac builds if the P will almost always 12 nex or 2 base arb.
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On November 21 2009 09:48 Nevuk wrote:
I feel like it would benefit this guide to talk about the likely protoss openings/play styles you will see on a map, as it tends to define the flow of the game, and can make certain styles of play not viable.
IE, destination is proxy heavy, with frequent 12 nexus, while maps like Luna frown on 12 nex and proxies, causing the toss to usually double expand with a very safe 1 gate tech opening. Some time is devoted to speaking of why arbs are good on the map, but are 2 base or 3 base arbs better? Or even later arbs? Etc. Things like this matter because you won't want to prepare exclusively 4 fac builds if the P will almost always 12 nex or 2 base arb.
This is a guide about map analysis not about TvP.
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Great stuff Proterg!! I am looking forward to your lectures. This helped me put a new perspective on certain maps.
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On November 21 2009 09:48 Nevuk wrote:
I feel like it would benefit this guide to talk about the likely protoss openings/play styles you will see on a map, as it tends to define the flow of the game, and can make certain styles of play not viable.
IE, destination is proxy heavy, with frequent 12 nexus, while maps like Luna frown on 12 nex and proxies, causing the toss to usually double expand with a very safe 1 gate tech opening. Some time is devoted to speaking of why arbs are good on the map, but are 2 base or 3 base arbs better? Or even later arbs? Etc. Things like this matter because you won't want to prepare exclusively 4 fac builds if the P will almost always 12 nex or 2 base arb.
Yeah, as Kawaii said, this is focused on analyzing a map to developing a plan. We're looking to see how to play properly and what to do with our units and how to construct our preparations to optomize our actions. Obviously this isn't useful if you're getting 7 gated every game, and I disregard that type of line. Notice how I didn't even talk about Terran openings either :O
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Warning: Receiving lessons from Gretorp has been proven to cause anal cancer.
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does it still hurt louder? I know there was some leakage last time you told me.
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Hey Andre great guide! really professional and nice looking, makes reading through so much easier.
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Amazing work! So happy someone made this.
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On November 21 2009 10:04 KawaiiRice wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2009 09:48 Nevuk wrote:
I feel like it would benefit this guide to talk about the likely protoss openings/play styles you will see on a map, as it tends to define the flow of the game, and can make certain styles of play not viable.
IE, destination is proxy heavy, with frequent 12 nexus, while maps like Luna frown on 12 nex and proxies, causing the toss to usually double expand with a very safe 1 gate tech opening. Some time is devoted to speaking of why arbs are good on the map, but are 2 base or 3 base arbs better? Or even later arbs? Etc. Things like this matter because you won't want to prepare exclusively 4 fac builds if the P will almost always 12 nex or 2 base arb. This is a guide about map analysis not about TvP.
If the map prevents or encourages certain openings, that's a huge part of the map, and what it encourages/discourages is rarely immediately apparent.
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Very good stuff... thanks for such an in-depth guide about this.
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This is awesome! Key knowledge that too many low level T's play without...
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Could you do a ZvP analysis on a new map in TSL such as fighting spirit? :D
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The point of this guide is so you don't have to ask me to do it, because you should be able to do it yourself. You should try using this theory of map analysis >>making plans for yourself. Don't wait for someone else to do it!
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I'm trying to apply this knowledge to Heartbreak ridge, trying to figure out which ridge to push on, but I cant seem to make heads or tails, both carriers and arbiters are strong here, but it doesn't seem as overwhelming as it does on Rush Hour.
While pushing next to your own base means more reinforcements, aswell as already making your own main harder to recall, I often find that if I push the other way I can siege up on some gateways, or maybe even hit some troops coming out of the main to the natural.
Both ways lead me to a mineral-only and a gasexpansion, but whereas pushing by my main makes my main safer from recalls, it also weakens the defense of my third, which is strengthened by my push in the other lane.
Maybe I dont really know what I'm trying to accomplish, but I could imagine some goals being similar to those on rush hour.
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It's tough, but don't treat this as once you know this information you can instantly start doing it. Just like learning everything, you need to continually practice both the game and planning, and as you start to become more comfortable with it, you can start to develop plans a lot more naturally.
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On November 23 2009 10:51 Catch]22 wrote:
I'm trying to apply this knowledge to Heartbreak ridge, trying to figure out which ridge to push on, but I cant seem to make heads or tails, both carriers and arbiters are strong here, but it doesn't seem as overwhelming as it does on Rush Hour.
While pushing next to your own base means more reinforcements, aswell as already making your own main harder to recall, I often find that if I push the other way I can siege up on some gateways, or maybe even hit some troops coming out of the main to the natural.
Both ways lead me to a mineral-only and a gasexpansion, but whereas pushing by my main makes my main safer from recalls, it also weakens the defense of my third, which is strengthened by my push in the other lane.
Maybe I dont really know what I'm trying to accomplish, but I could imagine some goals being similar to those on rush hour.
Almost every single time I pushed on those ridges I get destroyed .. I hate that map so much. I tried using dropships to ferry tank/vult into P's base before when I pushed the other ridges though. Maybe you can try that instead of going through his nat.
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I actually think the correct way that map is to not attack. Defensively speaking, the ridges and narrow chokes provide such good postures. if you mass turtle and stay robust to recalls, the amount of bases on the map doesn't allow for heavy late game.
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Update!!!!
I apologize for the long delay, but after 4 reformats, 2 trojans, looking for my cd key, going through 3 different wireless usb(i know they're bad TT don't yell at me!), and a lot of cryihng due to my inadequacy in anything computer related, I finally(XXfingers) got everything to work!
That being said I will be streaming this lesson tonight at 8pm EST or 10am KST. Please tune in if you get the chance to as I will be going over why we should analyze maps and actually analyzing maps! I might open up questions afterwards and have a day8esk style, stealing some format from the legend himself!
That being said I hope to see you all tonight/tomorrow morning. It will be on demand so no worries if you msis it :-) Love you all!
But not peter.
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Yeah, bring it on. The last guide was so helpful to start dissecting my strategies on different maps.
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So this is happening in about 28 minutes?
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Damn, I fell asleep during your lecture. Do you upload it to YouTube or something? Would be much appreciated.
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Very informative and entertaining (especially when you got zealotswarmed after destroying that 12nex
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You were streaming yesterday and I noticed you doing a weird opening tvp where you do 10 depot rax gas into 1 fact vult mines and then expansion. Can you talk me through that? Meaning what to do in order to adjust it to the opponent's play and all.
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EPT
