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JohannesH
Finland1364 Posts
On October 19 2009 17:41 Vekzel wrote:Finally, I agree that we shouldn't call BackHo's build 'stupid'. I would use word 'bold' instead. However, his win is not a solution to Toss' overall weakness in recent PvZ. In fact rather supports the thesis of PvZ imbalances, because if P needs to play that crazy to win the games, then it must really be a desperate situation for Aiur. Or, it might just be that Backho vs Calm, Backho needs to play like that to win games. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17850 Posts
And if BackHo is such a revolutionist and has found the way to beat Zergs on a consistent basis, how would you explain his next 2 games vs Calm? | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
It's a harassment build. Then All of Fantasy's TvP games are his opponents fault for letting the vultures into their base? | ||
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rredtooth
5464 Posts
On October 20 2009 11:38 Avidkeystamper wrote: if backho can consistently pull something off like this against other good players then this is a good strategy. fantasy's tvp games are consistently centered around his vulture harass and has proven time and again that it is a viable strategy."It was Calm's mistake that let BackHo win." It's a harassment build. Then All of Fantasy's TvP games are his opponents fault for letting the vultures into their base? i got stoved the other day by a jerk korean. does that make it a good strategy? no (though chef would argue otherwise). the stove is a harassment build with its scouts. does that make mass scouts a good harass move? no. did it win that jerk korean the game? yes. i responded incorrectly and went on tilt. same thing: calm responded incorrectly and went on tilt vs backho's mass DTs. if backho can do this every game and pull it off successfully, then yes it becomes a good strategy. else, like the stove, it is a cool build but not viable in the long run. | ||
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Monokeros
United States2493 Posts
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
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JohannesH
Finland1364 Posts
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rredtooth
5464 Posts
On October 20 2009 12:11 JohannesH wrote: but that isn't the purpose of the thread. the purpose of the thread is to discuss whether or not this is a good, viable build that can be used as another alternative post-forge FE opening.You dont need to be able to pull it off every game for it to be a good strategy. It's enough that it works when you use it. look at the op: On October 19 2009 02:48 Whiplash wrote: I have only played this on the D/D+ level but I believe that it could be viable on higher levels with someone that has good mechanics. | ||
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druj
137 Posts
If the zerg is able to clump his buildings together to keep the slow moving dts from hitting hydras/sunks up a ramp or a choke, its a complete fail for him, zerg will secure a strong economic advantage from there, and freely expo with all those units saved up. A few months ago I saw a youtube highlights clip of some game, diagonal positions, toss player went pure dts vs a zerg that apparently went 3 hatch? Wasn't an FE though, was absolutely sick timing, killed him before he could get his lair tech up, but I doubt it could be a consistent build. | ||
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O-ops
United States4236 Posts
On October 20 2009 13:16 druj wrote: A rather risky strategy, if the Zerg even manages to keep the units running astray, he won't be able to get his money's worth for the lost gas spent on those DT's that could have went for ht and tech upgrades. If the zerg is able to clump his buildings together to keep the slow moving dts from hitting hydras/sunks up a ramp or a choke, its a complete fail for him, zerg will secure a strong economic advantage from there, and freely expo with all those units saved up. A few months ago I saw a youtube highlights clip of some game, diagonal positions, toss player went pure dts vs a zerg that apparently went 3 hatch? Wasn't an FE though, was absolutely sick timing, killed him before he could get his lair tech up, but I doubt it could be a consistent build. Yellow vs Anytime? That game made the pimpest play list. And if it is on the Pimpest play list, it's probably not reliable after it's been done. | ||
KwarK
United States44361 Posts
Feel free to use it at D rank because D ranks won't have all the basic shit down and won't lolblock it. But if you're playing at D rank then you'll probably forget the archives anyway so whatever. This isn't new or revolutionary though. It's a dead end build, as skill levels increase the effectiveness decreases, a D will beat a D with this, a B will beat a C with this, a B won't beat a B with this and an A might lose to a B with this. When you do a build you're investing your time in getting good at that build. Your mechanics and multitasking improve but at the same time your familiarity with the build you're using will improve. You should invest your time in builds that do not have skill ceilings because otherwise you reach a point where your skills are decent but you're being let down by using weak builds or unfamiliarity with the builds that work at any level. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
On October 20 2009 21:29 Kwark wrote: This is a build I have a great deal of experience with because it featured in my ongoing research into finding out every single way to beat a superior player using dark templars. You are now officially my least favourite player ever. :D | ||
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micropede
United States47 Posts
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On October 19 2009 16:00 Ver wrote: this widespread misconception is hilarious yet annoying. Foreigners are bad not because they lack mechanics. Quite the contrary, a fair number of foreigners (especially the Chinese) have excellent mechanics. But at the same time they have no idea what they are doing, that is their weakness. Korean amateurs have great decision making and solid builds, and most pros *cough Rock cough* can be trusted to consistently make strong or great decisions. foreigners are bad both because of mechanics and because of decision making, and most korean amateurs are robots. they do have solid builds but its not a result of their decision making or intelligence. | ||
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538
Hungary3932 Posts
On October 20 2009 21:29 Kwark wrote:It's a dead end build, as skill levels increase the effectiveness decreases, a D will beat a D with this, a B will beat a C with this, a B won't beat a B with this and an A might lose to a B with this. Using everyday logic, regardless of my starcraft knowledge: Why is it then that an A++ player opted for this build against an other A++ player? And what did he scout in Calm's build that made him stick with it? I cannot believe that it only worked because its so bad, he shouldnt have been using it in the first place:-p There must be something to this build that we're missing... | ||
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kulik-
Czech Republic305 Posts
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
On October 20 2009 22:16 538 wrote: Using everyday logic, regardless of my starcraft knowledge: Why is it then that an A++ player opted for this build against an other A++ player? And what did he scout in Calm's build that made him stick with it? I cannot believe that it only worked because its so bad, he shouldnt have been using it in the first place:-p There must be something to this build that we're missing... I think you are severly overrating Backho. As I mentioned earlier, this is the guy who suicided reaver filled shuttles despite scouting that Canata had gone for wraith. That's what he does; stupid shit. Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't. Against Calm, his stupid shit worked. | ||
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Stimpacked
Philippines368 Posts
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On October 20 2009 22:59 Stimpacked wrote: i like this build.. i think the timing is right that the hydras are still not that many and the zealot/dt army can still fight off the amount of hydras which makes the probability of sneaking a dt bigger.. Except the timing isn't really like that. | ||
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