EPTeven if s class appears to be vulnerable in a mu, nobody's gonna discount him still. that's s class.
the s class players are flash, jaedong, and bisu atm. I'd say flash jaedong, bisu, stork if it were last year.
S-class indicator - Page 8
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
even if s class appears to be vulnerable in a mu, nobody's gonna discount him still. that's s class. the s class players are flash, jaedong, and bisu atm. I'd say flash jaedong, bisu, stork if it were last year. | ||
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geod
Vietnam450 Posts
On August 17 2009 13:03 TheYango wrote: The Khan tosses have been playing terribly as of late. IMO S-class is a measure of current capabilities, not all-time career highs. Until they can step up and show they are still capable of playing at the top level, Bisu holds that spot. At this point in time, the only Protosses I would bet on taking a set from Flash or Fantasy in PvT are Bisu and maybe Kal on a good day. I believe the traditional argument that best-of sets are more reliable measures of skill are threefold: 1) They reduce the chance of luck wins 2) One cannot reliably cheese through a Bo5 set--generally this means the player with the stronger overall play will win out, whereas a weaker player can snipe a stronger player in single-game matches before the majority of their skill can be put to use. 3) It tests the player's mental fortitude over a longer period of game-time. 1) How? The ratio of luck wins decrease? How? 2) Why not? Boxer Yellow, July Best, Jeadong Fantasy. 3) The proleague final is the most important thing in SC. This is the result of 1 year working of all member of a team. You fight not just for you, you fight for your teammates, for your sponsors, for your team. This is the highest pressure you can ever imagine. Just look at the Jaedong kid face when he got raped in Ace match and you got the point. Mental wise, individual league is just a joke compared to proleague final. | ||
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StorrZerg
United States13922 Posts
On August 17 2009 10:10 Hinanawi wrote: I agree that JD/Bisu/Flash might be getting unfair treatment from their illustrious past histories, so let's cut off their past games at Jan 1 2009 and check out their stats from then until now.  Jaedong: 89-41 (68.46%)ZvZ: 34-12 (73.91%) ZvP: 23-11 (67.65%) ZvT: 32-18 (64.00%)  Bisu: 75-30 (71.43%)PvZ: 23-13 (63.89%) PvP: 25-6 (80.65%) PvT: 27-11 (71.05%)  Flash: 66-29 (69.47%)TvZ: 22-8 (73.33%) TvP: 17-10 (62.96%) TvT: 27-11 (71.05%) === Clearly, J-B-F are still dominating, and dominating in every one of their matchups (they're all still over 60% in every matchup only including games played this year). Let's look at Fantasy in the same time frame: fantasy: 45-26 (63.38%)TvZ: 14-13 (51.85%) TvP: 17-7 (70.83%) TvT: 14-6 (70.00%) === From these stats, it looks clear to me that Fantasy is CLOSE to breaking into the J-B-F 'S-class', but isn't quite there yet. He can definitely take games from S/A-class Zerg and Protoss, but he needs to establish the same aura of invincibility against B-class players that Flash has, and it would also help if he got an individual title. I like watching Fantasy play (when he doesn't bunker rush), and I hope he wins a title soon. When he does win an individual league, and if he keeps or improves his current percentages, I think he can be called S-class then. Fantasy first needs to win a league. Other wise its just gonna be a bleh come and go progamer | ||
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geod
Vietnam450 Posts
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
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SoMuchBetter
Australia10606 Posts
On August 17 2009 06:09 GTR wrote: As a Progaming Historian, I disdain the use of 'x-Class' and 'Bonjwa' Why? Because everyone has their own separate ideal for each of them. really? all this sort of thing is pretty obvious in hindsight, it just gets a bit messy when you start talking about current events | ||
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Presony-Boy
Israel812 Posts
44-19 (69.84%) overall 16-5 (76.19%) vs T 18-11 (62.07%) vs Z 10-3 (76.92%) vs P if u say fantasy is S-class, what stops calm from being an S-class? he beat jaedong and effort in his worst mu, he has been doing better than bisu this season (individual leagues) he probably has to win a title + keep his form till ppl might see him as an S-class u cant deny that calm has been doing great this year so far, but he still has something missing to be able to compare him to bisu/jd/flash, and so does fantasy. also, j-b-f have been playing more games than any1 else, so this also should be taken into consideration. so to sum it up, id say the only real S-class right now are bisu, jd and flash whereas the closest players to S-class r probably fantasy and calm. | ||
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baubo
China3370 Posts
On August 17 2009 16:11 Presony-Boy wrote: lets look @ calm (from jan 1 2009) 44-19 (69.84%) overall 16-5 (76.19%) vs T 18-11 (62.07%) vs Z 10-3 (76.92%) vs P if u say fantasy is S-class, what stops calm from being an S-class? The answer is simple. Calm needs to play on SKT1. If he Personally, I think Calm needs to maintain a high level of play for at least another half a year or so before he can be mentioned though. Plenty of players go on hot streaks. It's the ones who can maintain that high level of performance who are really the top players. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
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QibingZero
2611 Posts
On August 17 2009 13:25 geod wrote: 1) How? The ratio of luck wins decrease? How? 2) Why not? Boxer Yellow, July Best, Jeadong Fantasy. 3) The proleague final is the most important thing in SC. This is the result of 1 year working of all member of a team. You fight not just for you, you fight for your teammates, for your sponsors, for your team. This is the highest pressure you can ever imagine. Just look at the Jaedong kid face when he got raped in Ace match and you got the point. Mental wise, individual league is just a joke compared to proleague final. Are you really this clueless? It's clear you're just making a barely-veiled attempt to bash Jaedong here, and for no purpose whatsoever. One game of starcraft does not mean as much as five - it's that simple. If you can win more often, you're the better player. Are you trying to say that Boxer could not beat Yellow straight up, or that July couldn't beat the sub-50% PvZ Best without a drone drill? Those are terrible examples. What's even worse is that you somehow think that Jaedong won through cheesing Fantasy in their recent bo5. I'm sure you'll attempt to call a 9pool cheese, and then claim that Jaedong's win in the OSL Finals vs Fantasy meant nothing as well. | ||
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
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Navane
Netherlands2762 Posts
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nayumi
Australia6499 Posts
On August 17 2009 20:40 Navane wrote: btw did you know both bisu, flash and jaedong have their mirror matchup as best matchup? Because they all understand their race so well ? | ||
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Navane
Netherlands2762 Posts
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Ota Solgryn
Denmark2011 Posts
On August 17 2009 19:08 QibingZero wrote: Are you really this clueless? It's clear you're just making a barely-veiled attempt to bash Jaedong here, and for no purpose whatsoever. One game of starcraft does not mean as much as five - it's that simple. If you can win more often, you're the better player. Are you trying to say that Boxer could not beat Yellow straight up, or that July couldn't beat the sub-50% PvZ Best without a drone drill? Those are terrible examples. What's even worse is that you somehow think that Jaedong won through cheesing Fantasy in their recent bo5. I'm sure you'll attempt to call a 9pool cheese, and then claim that Jaedong's win in the OSL Finals vs Fantasy meant nothing as well. This. I was going to write something very long, but I guess geod is just clueless. As he writes himself, proleague is a meassure of the teams strengths so how can this tell more about one player than a 1v1 bo5? I mean, come on. Major selffuck. | ||
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MannerMan
371 Posts
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sidesprang
Norway1033 Posts
effort/calm/fantasy = a+-class, anyone of those can become s-class if they keep up the good work. leta was a+, but has dropped down to only a-class. | ||
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
On August 17 2009 20:23 SuperJongMan wrote: I believe you're all being quite silly. Hah, I rate you D-class. | ||
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johanes
Czech Republic2246 Posts
On August 17 2009 22:04 MannerMan wrote: If fantasy had beaten jaedong this conversation would be completely different. but he hasn't, that's the whole point | ||
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geod
Vietnam450 Posts
On August 17 2009 19:08 QibingZero wrote: Are you really this clueless? It's clear you're just making a barely-veiled attempt to bash Jaedong here, and for no purpose whatsoever. One game of starcraft does not mean as much as five - it's that simple. If you can win more often, you're the better player. Are you trying to say that Boxer could not beat Yellow straight up, or that July couldn't beat the sub-50% PvZ Best without a drone drill? Those are terrible examples. What's even worse is that you somehow think that Jaedong won through cheesing Fantasy in their recent bo5. I'm sure you'll attempt to call a 9pool cheese, and then claim that Jaedong's win in the OSL Finals vs Fantasy meant nothing as well. If you don't want to argue anymore then keep silent don't put words in others people's mouth. | ||
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