• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:17
CEST 06:17
KST 13:17
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
GSTL Returns in 2026!13Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-611
StarCraft 2
General
GSTL Returns in 2026! SC4ALL: II Talent Announcement! Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Protoss AoE skill expression Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) 2026 KungFu Cup Announcement Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 538 Media Blackout The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion StarCraft 64 is coming to Philly at SC4ALL II ASL22 General Discussion [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60 BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
Escore Tournament - Season 3 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-6
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Letting Off Steam Thread Iain M Banks Says He Has Cancer And Months To Live
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Chinese Gen Z: Between Dream…
TrAiDoS
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Hello guys!
LIN1s
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3699 users

S-class indicator - Page 9

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 7 8 9 10 Next All
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
August 18 2009 09:24 GMT
#161
On August 17 2009 22:14 sidesprang wrote:
bisu/flash/jaedong = s-class

effort/calm/fantasy = a+-class, anyone of those can become s-class if they keep up the good work.

leta was a+, but has dropped down to only a-class.


A+ class? Oh god don't try to add something like that please. I know what you mean, but keep it to A class or S class.
Brokenlamp
Profile Joined June 2009
United States39 Posts
August 18 2009 16:28 GMT
#162
I think its pretty obvious that Jaedong's recent drop in play shows the overwhelming negetive effect that being TOO successful can have on a players career.

For example, Jaedong's first 6 months of 2009 looked like this:

overall
72-26 (73.47%)

vZ: 28-4 (87.50%)
vT: 24-12 (66.67%)
vP: 20-10 (66.67%)

Thats 100 games in 6 months. I dont think that anyone can argue that being active in both starleagues plus GOM, AND being his teams only ace player (while trying to hold on to first place) didnt cause his play in all of them to drop off a little bit. Its kind of unfair, and I know other players like Flash have experienced it in the past, and I definately saw some signs of it happening to Effort as well. Your own success is your undoing. The mental fatigue and sleep deprivation just add up over time and become too much to overcome. Hopefully the dude is getting some sleep now that he is down to just the OSL.

Still, its remarkable how many games Jaedong is on pace to play this year. He's already at 130. thats 5 more than he played in all of 2008. And just 6 shy of how many Flash played last year. I believe his end of year game totals are going to be pretty unprecedented. And unfortunately, its inevitable that his winning percentages are adversely effected by it.

nonduc
Profile Joined May 2009
Russian Federation405 Posts
August 18 2009 17:00 GMT
#163
TPLD is incomplete.
In 2008 JD played 149 games (102–47; 68.5%).
In 2007 — 131 (90–41; 68.7%).
In 2006 — 78 (51–27; 65.4%).
티라노사저그 렉스 화이팅~!
Hayarok
Profile Joined December 2008
Israel95 Posts
August 18 2009 17:15 GMT
#164
"Kinda like being a bonjwa. You just are."
+1
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
November 08 2010 01:19 GMT
#165
I have a different definition for this. You have to look at a player's performance in relation to other players.

I propose that a player is S-class if no more than 2 players of each race are elo-favored against him.

So S-class now is:

Flash (no one favored against him)
Jaedong (only an underdog against Flash)
Kal (underdog vs Flash, fantasy, Jaedong, Calm, Horang2)

And fantasy is almost S-class (underdog vs Flash, Skyhigh, Jaedong, ZerO, Stork, BeSt, and Snow)
Kimaker
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2131 Posts
November 08 2010 03:02 GMT
#166
Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Effort (if he was still playing)

Are all S class in my book. I look at them and EXPECT then to be able to ROFL-stomp any other players, excluding each other. Bisu I would have on that list, if not for his abysmal performance last season, but there's certainly no argument that Bisu was/has the potential to be S class again, and is looking to do just that given his recent tear.

Maybe:

Fantasy....maybe. I've never liked they guy, so I won't make a call because of my unnatural biases against his play.
Entusman #54 (-_-) ||"Gold is for the Mistress-Silver for the Maid-Copper for the craftsman cunning in his trade. "Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall, But Iron — Cold Iron — is master of them all|| "Optimism is Cowardice."- Oswald Spengler
McDonalds
Profile Joined March 2010
Liechtenstein2244 Posts
November 08 2010 03:03 GMT
#167
My first reaction is that S-class is bigger than that. It's not scientific but if a player is consistently sent out for ace matches and keeps a good win percentage, then I probably consider them S-class. For me A-class just denotes solid A-team material and there must be more than a couple of players who stand out.
High five :---)
Lightwip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5497 Posts
November 08 2010 03:09 GMT
#168
Right now I'd say Bisu, Jaedong, and Flash are S class. Effort was when he was still around, and Fantasy is just slightly under, something like S-(assuming he plays like he did at the end of last season). A step below would be Kal, Stork, and Zero because they are heavy slumpers.
If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you.
Gummy
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States2180 Posts
November 08 2010 03:21 GMT
#169
On November 08 2010 12:09 Lightwip wrote:
Right now I'd say Bisu, Jaedong, and Flash are S class. Effort was when he was still around, and Fantasy is just slightly under, something like S-(assuming he plays like he did at the end of last season). A step below would be Kal, Stork, and Zero because they are heavy slumpers.


Bisu, while he's been stomping in PL recently, hasn't really shown any results in individual leagues. It would be jumping the gun at this point to say he's back. I mean, he's definitely a solid A-class player regardless, but until he's shown his previous invincible mentality, I'm unconvinced.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ There are three kinds of people in the world: those who can count and those who can't.
Kibibit
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1551 Posts
November 08 2010 03:32 GMT
#170
On November 08 2010 10:19 jalstar wrote:

Kal (underdog vs Flash, fantasy, Jaedong, Calm, Horang2)

This made me giggle like a schoolgirl. incessantly at that.
R.I.P. 우정호 || Do probes dream of psionic sheep?
matjlav
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Germany2435 Posts
November 08 2010 03:47 GMT
#171
On November 08 2010 10:19 jalstar wrote:
I have a different definition for this. You have to look at a player's performance in relation to other players.

I propose that a player is S-class if no more than 2 players of each race are elo-favored against him.

So S-class now is:

Flash (no one favored against him)
Jaedong (only an underdog against Flash)
Kal (underdog vs Flash, fantasy, Jaedong, Calm, Horang2)

And fantasy is almost S-class (underdog vs Flash, Skyhigh, Jaedong, ZerO, Stork, BeSt, and Snow)


That criteria is kind of disproven by Kal's presence in that list... he's simply not S-class.

I would just stick with the overall consensus that S-class players "just are" S-class.
Conversion
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3308 Posts
November 08 2010 04:03 GMT
#172
if anything kal would be the S-class choker

-___- one too many games lost when he has the potential
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
November 08 2010 04:06 GMT
#173
On November 08 2010 12:47 matjlav wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2010 10:19 jalstar wrote:
I have a different definition for this. You have to look at a player's performance in relation to other players.

I propose that a player is S-class if no more than 2 players of each race are elo-favored against him.

So S-class now is:

Flash (no one favored against him)
Jaedong (only an underdog against Flash)
Kal (underdog vs Flash, fantasy, Jaedong, Calm, Horang2)

And fantasy is almost S-class (underdog vs Flash, Skyhigh, Jaedong, ZerO, Stork, BeSt, and Snow)


That criteria is kind of disproven by Kal's presence in that list... he's simply not S-class.

I would just stick with the overall consensus that S-class players "just are" S-class.


It is a pity that his criterion would work, if only Kal is not a huge choker. Kal has gone toe-toe- with Flash/Jaedong, many times building huge leads, only to lol it away.* So you need to add in a "massively elo-favored" against him requirement, as Kal's H2H with LeeSsang is really bad, which kind of ruins it.

*This used to apply to Bisu too in the past, but since Kal won against Bisu while he was slumping, the fear seems to have disappeared.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
zenMaster
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada761 Posts
November 08 2010 04:17 GMT
#174
Kal is S-class at choking.
xxpack09
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States2160 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-08 04:23:18
November 08 2010 04:21 GMT
#175
My definition:

S-class in one matchup = 2200 elo in that matchup

S-class = 2200 elo in all matchups

So:

Overall S-class:
Flash
Jaedong

vs T S-class
Skyhigh
Best
Snow
(Stork and Fanta are close)

vs Z S-class
Bisu
Light

vs P S-class
no one but F/J (though Fanta is close)

I think it's a decent definition
dRaW
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada5744 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-08 04:32:52
November 08 2010 04:30 GMT
#176
Yeah the only way that you can account for this is something of an ELO rating over the past year. As Stork WAS maybe S-Class, no way is he S-Class atm.

Also, I go by people who can take out potential other S classes in a bo5, namely someone like Fantasy. (He ALWAYS plays epic vs JD/Flash)

Current S-Class IMO: Flash/JD (or Super S Class) - Also the retired Effort
Potentials are Bisu/Fantasy... Not sure who else...

Lately: Stats+ForGG are playing decent, Soulkey is improving, Zero has potential but needs to get out of a PL only player. Similarly, all the Leta hate is unwarranted, he really has exceptional PL stats, however him and Sea alike need to get better results in individual leagues.
I don't need luck, luck is for noobs, good luck to you though
xxpack09
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States2160 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-08 04:34:14
November 08 2010 04:30 GMT
#177
Oh, and for A-class, lets use the same criteria but 2100 elo

Overall A-class:

(Effort)
Fantasy
Kal
Bisu
Free
Sea

vs T:
Stork
Zero
Leta
Iris
M18M (lol)
Roro
ForGG
Much
Mind
Light
Hiya
Hydra
Stats
Soulkey

vs Z:

Shine
ForGG
Movie
Midas
Ruby
Kwanro
Stork
Roro
Great

vs P:

Horang2
Calm
Shuttle
Zero
July (lolwut)
Leta
Jangbi
Hyuk
Pure
Iris
Really
(Best is close)

Also B-class could be 2050, and C-class 2000? Below 2000 doesn't really work well since a player can play one game and be 2000 in 2 matchups
dRaW
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada5744 Posts
November 08 2010 04:31 GMT
#178
On November 08 2010 12:02 Kimaker wrote:
Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Effort (if he was still playing)

Are all S class in my book. I look at them and EXPECT then to be able to ROFL-stomp any other players, excluding each other. Bisu I would have on that list, if not for his abysmal performance last season, but there's certainly no argument that Bisu was/has the potential to be S class again, and is looking to do just that given his recent tear.

Maybe:

Fantasy....maybe. I've never liked they guy, so I won't make a call because of my unnatural biases against his play.


Please check Stork, his performance was god awful himself.
I don't need luck, luck is for noobs, good luck to you though
RezChi
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada2368 Posts
November 08 2010 05:07 GMT
#179
Stork is beast, no matter what happens he is still the one most likely to beat Bisu, Flash, and Jaedong. He even recently destory JD with a rofl build.
Nitan
Profile Joined September 2008
United States3401 Posts
November 08 2010 06:28 GMT
#180
The best S class indicator is that you like the player. Your tastes are impeccable so it's inconceivable that a player you like is not S class, even if it's only S class in spirit.

That popular player that you don't like though? Totally not S class. He's just over hyped.
Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes.
Prev 1 7 8 9 10 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
SEL Ladder Invitational
CranKy Ducklings98
LiquipediaDiscussion
OSC
20:00
Mid Season Playoffs
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft473
RuFF_SC2 189
ProTech65
FoxeR 32
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 4062
GuemChi 2181
Leta 444
Noble 92
Dota 2
The International34725
Gorgc5529
singsing1110
Fuzer 152
NeuroSwarm90
Counter-Strike
summit1g7624
minikerr66
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox823
C9.Mang0216
Mew2King51
Other Games
ViBE156
Maynarde132
ROOTCatZ49
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH260
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP7
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki27
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2862
League of Legends
• Rush1141
• Stunt860
Upcoming Events
Escore
5h 43m
PiG Sty Festival
7h 43m
ByuN vs HeRoMaRinE
ShoWTimE vs Zoun
Big Brain Bouts
11h 43m
Nicoract vs Neeb
TriGGeR vs ShoWTimE
CranKy Ducklings
1d 5h
PiG Sty Festival
1d 7h
herO vs Krystianer
Solar vs Cure
IPSL
1d 11h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
PiG Sty Festival
2 days
Maru vs Shameless
Reynor vs TriGGeR
IPSL
2 days
OSC
2 days
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Rush vs Hm
Bisu vs Shuttle
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
The Patches Monday
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Sharp vs Shinee
Action vs Shine
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
BeSt vs Paralyze
Jaedong vs Speed
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
KCM Race Survival
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-13
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
Escore Tournament S3: W7
RSL Revival: Season 6
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
META DYMY #4
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.