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On August 17 2009 22:14 sidesprang wrote:
bisu/flash/jaedong = s-class
effort/calm/fantasy = a+-class, anyone of those can become s-class if they keep up the good work.
leta was a+, but has dropped down to only a-class.
A+ class? Oh god don't try to add something like that please. I know what you mean, but keep it to A class or S class.
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I think its pretty obvious that Jaedong's recent drop in play shows the overwhelming negetive effect that being TOO successful can have on a players career.
For example, Jaedong's first 6 months of 2009 looked like this:
overall
72-26 (73.47%)
vZ: 28-4 (87.50%)
vT: 24-12 (66.67%)
vP: 20-10 (66.67%)
Thats 100 games in 6 months. I dont think that anyone can argue that being active in both starleagues plus GOM, AND being his teams only ace player (while trying to hold on to first place) didnt cause his play in all of them to drop off a little bit. Its kind of unfair, and I know other players like Flash have experienced it in the past, and I definately saw some signs of it happening to Effort as well. Your own success is your undoing. The mental fatigue and sleep deprivation just add up over time and become too much to overcome. Hopefully the dude is getting some sleep now that he is down to just the OSL.
Still, its remarkable how many games Jaedong is on pace to play this year. He's already at 130. thats 5 more than he played in all of 2008. And just 6 shy of how many Flash played last year. I believe his end of year game totals are going to be pretty unprecedented. And unfortunately, its inevitable that his winning percentages are adversely effected by it.
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Russian Federation405 Posts
TPLD is incomplete. 
In 2008 JD played 149 games (102–47; 68.5%).
In 2007 — 131 (90–41; 68.7%).
In 2006 — 78 (51–27; 65.4%).
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"Kinda like being a bonjwa. You just are."
+1
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I have a different definition for this. You have to look at a player's performance in relation to other players.
I propose that a player is S-class if no more than 2 players of each race are elo-favored against him.
So S-class now is:
Flash (no one favored against him)
Jaedong (only an underdog against Flash)
Kal (underdog vs Flash, fantasy, Jaedong, Calm, Horang2)
And fantasy is almost S-class (underdog vs Flash, Skyhigh, Jaedong, ZerO, Stork, BeSt, and Snow)
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Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Effort (if he was still playing)
Are all S class in my book. I look at them and EXPECT then to be able to ROFL-stomp any other players, excluding each other. Bisu I would have on that list, if not for his abysmal performance last season, but there's certainly no argument that Bisu was/has the potential to be S class again, and is looking to do just that given his recent tear.
Maybe:
Fantasy....maybe. I've never liked they guy, so I won't make a call because of my unnatural biases against his play.
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My first reaction is that S-class is bigger than that. It's not scientific but if a player is consistently sent out for ace matches and keeps a good win percentage, then I probably consider them S-class. For me A-class just denotes solid A-team material and there must be more than a couple of players who stand out.
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Right now I'd say Bisu, Jaedong, and Flash are S class. Effort was when he was still around, and Fantasy is just slightly under, something like S-(assuming he plays like he did at the end of last season). A step below would be Kal, Stork, and Zero because they are heavy slumpers.
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On November 08 2010 12:09 Lightwip wrote:
Right now I'd say Bisu, Jaedong, and Flash are S class. Effort was when he was still around, and Fantasy is just slightly under, something like S-(assuming he plays like he did at the end of last season). A step below would be Kal, Stork, and Zero because they are heavy slumpers.
Bisu, while he's been stomping in PL recently, hasn't really shown any results in individual leagues. It would be jumping the gun at this point to say he's back. I mean, he's definitely a solid A-class player regardless, but until he's shown his previous invincible mentality, I'm unconvinced.
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On November 08 2010 10:19 jalstar wrote:
Kal (underdog vs Flash, fantasy, Jaedong, Calm, Horang2)
This made me giggle like a schoolgirl. incessantly at that.
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On November 08 2010 10:19 jalstar wrote:
I have a different definition for this. You have to look at a player's performance in relation to other players.
I propose that a player is S-class if no more than 2 players of each race are elo-favored against him.
So S-class now is:
Flash (no one favored against him)
Jaedong (only an underdog against Flash)
Kal (underdog vs Flash, fantasy, Jaedong, Calm, Horang2)
And fantasy is almost S-class (underdog vs Flash, Skyhigh, Jaedong, ZerO, Stork, BeSt, and Snow)
That criteria is kind of disproven by Kal's presence in that list... he's simply not S-class.
I would just stick with the overall consensus that S-class players "just are" S-class.
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if anything kal would be the S-class choker
-___- one too many games lost when he has the potential
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On November 08 2010 12:47 matjlav wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2010 10:19 jalstar wrote:
I have a different definition for this. You have to look at a player's performance in relation to other players.
I propose that a player is S-class if no more than 2 players of each race are elo-favored against him.
So S-class now is:
Flash (no one favored against him)
Jaedong (only an underdog against Flash)
Kal (underdog vs Flash, fantasy, Jaedong, Calm, Horang2)
And fantasy is almost S-class (underdog vs Flash, Skyhigh, Jaedong, ZerO, Stork, BeSt, and Snow) That criteria is kind of disproven by Kal's presence in that list... he's simply not S-class. I would just stick with the overall consensus that S-class players "just are" S-class.
It is a pity that his criterion would work, if only Kal is not a huge choker. Kal has gone toe-toe- with Flash/Jaedong, many times building huge leads, only to lol it away.* So you need to add in a "massively elo-favored" against him requirement, as Kal's H2H with LeeSsang is really bad, which kind of ruins it.
*This used to apply to Bisu too in the past, but since Kal won against Bisu while he was slumping, the fear seems to have disappeared.
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Kal is S-class at choking.
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My definition:
S-class in one matchup = 2200 elo in that matchup
S-class = 2200 elo in all matchups
So:
Overall S-class:
Flash
Jaedong
vs T S-class
Skyhigh
Best
Snow
(Stork and Fanta are close)
vs Z S-class
Bisu
Light
vs P S-class
no one but F/J (though Fanta is close)
I think it's a decent definition
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Yeah the only way that you can account for this is something of an ELO rating over the past year. As Stork WAS maybe S-Class, no way is he S-Class atm.
Also, I go by people who can take out potential other S classes in a bo5, namely someone like Fantasy. (He ALWAYS plays epic vs JD/Flash)
Current S-Class IMO: Flash/JD (or Super S Class) - Also the retired Effort
Potentials are Bisu/Fantasy... Not sure who else...
Lately: Stats+ForGG are playing decent, Soulkey is improving, Zero has potential but needs to get out of a PL only player. Similarly, all the Leta hate is unwarranted, he really has exceptional PL stats, however him and Sea alike need to get better results in individual leagues.
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Oh, and for A-class, lets use the same criteria but 2100 elo
Overall A-class:
(Effort)
Fantasy
Kal
Bisu
Free
Sea
vs T:
Stork
Zero
Leta
Iris
M18M (lol)
Roro
ForGG
Much
Mind
Light
Hiya
Hydra
Stats
Soulkey
vs Z:
Shine
ForGG
Movie
Midas
Ruby
Kwanro
Stork
Roro
Great
vs P:
Horang2
Calm
Shuttle
Zero
July (lolwut)
Leta
Jangbi
Hyuk
Pure
Iris
Really
(Best is close)
Also B-class could be 2050, and C-class 2000? Below 2000 doesn't really work well since a player can play one game and be 2000 in 2 matchups
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On November 08 2010 12:02 Kimaker wrote:
Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Effort (if he was still playing)
Are all S class in my book. I look at them and EXPECT then to be able to ROFL-stomp any other players, excluding each other. Bisu I would have on that list, if not for his abysmal performance last season, but there's certainly no argument that Bisu was/has the potential to be S class again, and is looking to do just that given his recent tear.
Maybe:
Fantasy....maybe. I've never liked they guy, so I won't make a call because of my unnatural biases against his play.
Please check Stork, his performance was god awful himself.
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Stork is beast, no matter what happens he is still the one most likely to beat Bisu, Flash, and Jaedong. He even recently destory JD with a rofl build.
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The best S class indicator is that you like the player. Your tastes are impeccable so it's inconceivable that a player you like is not S class, even if it's only S class in spirit.
That popular player that you don't like though? Totally not S class. He's just over hyped.
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EPT
