• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:04
CEST 20:04
KST 03:04
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash1[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy9ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool48Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win42026 KungFu Cup Announcement6BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2) Potential Updates Coming to the SC2 CN Server Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational
Tourneys
RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) WardiTV Mondays World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat Mutation # 516 Specter of Death
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash Pros React To: SoulKey vs Ample ASL21 General Discussion RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site KK Platform will provide 1 million CNY
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro24 Group D [ASL21] Ro24 Group C [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group B
Strategy
What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Darkest Dungeon Path of Exile
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1268 users

S-class indicator - Page 9

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 7 8 9 10 Next All
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
August 18 2009 09:24 GMT
#161
On August 17 2009 22:14 sidesprang wrote:
bisu/flash/jaedong = s-class

effort/calm/fantasy = a+-class, anyone of those can become s-class if they keep up the good work.

leta was a+, but has dropped down to only a-class.


A+ class? Oh god don't try to add something like that please. I know what you mean, but keep it to A class or S class.
Brokenlamp
Profile Joined June 2009
United States39 Posts
August 18 2009 16:28 GMT
#162
I think its pretty obvious that Jaedong's recent drop in play shows the overwhelming negetive effect that being TOO successful can have on a players career.

For example, Jaedong's first 6 months of 2009 looked like this:

overall
72-26 (73.47%)

vZ: 28-4 (87.50%)
vT: 24-12 (66.67%)
vP: 20-10 (66.67%)

Thats 100 games in 6 months. I dont think that anyone can argue that being active in both starleagues plus GOM, AND being his teams only ace player (while trying to hold on to first place) didnt cause his play in all of them to drop off a little bit. Its kind of unfair, and I know other players like Flash have experienced it in the past, and I definately saw some signs of it happening to Effort as well. Your own success is your undoing. The mental fatigue and sleep deprivation just add up over time and become too much to overcome. Hopefully the dude is getting some sleep now that he is down to just the OSL.

Still, its remarkable how many games Jaedong is on pace to play this year. He's already at 130. thats 5 more than he played in all of 2008. And just 6 shy of how many Flash played last year. I believe his end of year game totals are going to be pretty unprecedented. And unfortunately, its inevitable that his winning percentages are adversely effected by it.

nonduc
Profile Joined May 2009
Russian Federation405 Posts
August 18 2009 17:00 GMT
#163
TPLD is incomplete.
In 2008 JD played 149 games (102–47; 68.5%).
In 2007 — 131 (90–41; 68.7%).
In 2006 — 78 (51–27; 65.4%).
티라노사저그 렉스 화이팅~!
Hayarok
Profile Joined December 2008
Israel95 Posts
August 18 2009 17:15 GMT
#164
"Kinda like being a bonjwa. You just are."
+1
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
November 08 2010 01:19 GMT
#165
I have a different definition for this. You have to look at a player's performance in relation to other players.

I propose that a player is S-class if no more than 2 players of each race are elo-favored against him.

So S-class now is:

Flash (no one favored against him)
Jaedong (only an underdog against Flash)
Kal (underdog vs Flash, fantasy, Jaedong, Calm, Horang2)

And fantasy is almost S-class (underdog vs Flash, Skyhigh, Jaedong, ZerO, Stork, BeSt, and Snow)
Kimaker
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2131 Posts
November 08 2010 03:02 GMT
#166
Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Effort (if he was still playing)

Are all S class in my book. I look at them and EXPECT then to be able to ROFL-stomp any other players, excluding each other. Bisu I would have on that list, if not for his abysmal performance last season, but there's certainly no argument that Bisu was/has the potential to be S class again, and is looking to do just that given his recent tear.

Maybe:

Fantasy....maybe. I've never liked they guy, so I won't make a call because of my unnatural biases against his play.
Entusman #54 (-_-) ||"Gold is for the Mistress-Silver for the Maid-Copper for the craftsman cunning in his trade. "Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall, But Iron — Cold Iron — is master of them all|| "Optimism is Cowardice."- Oswald Spengler
McDonalds
Profile Joined March 2010
Liechtenstein2244 Posts
November 08 2010 03:03 GMT
#167
My first reaction is that S-class is bigger than that. It's not scientific but if a player is consistently sent out for ace matches and keeps a good win percentage, then I probably consider them S-class. For me A-class just denotes solid A-team material and there must be more than a couple of players who stand out.
High five :---)
Lightwip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5497 Posts
November 08 2010 03:09 GMT
#168
Right now I'd say Bisu, Jaedong, and Flash are S class. Effort was when he was still around, and Fantasy is just slightly under, something like S-(assuming he plays like he did at the end of last season). A step below would be Kal, Stork, and Zero because they are heavy slumpers.
If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you.
Gummy
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States2180 Posts
November 08 2010 03:21 GMT
#169
On November 08 2010 12:09 Lightwip wrote:
Right now I'd say Bisu, Jaedong, and Flash are S class. Effort was when he was still around, and Fantasy is just slightly under, something like S-(assuming he plays like he did at the end of last season). A step below would be Kal, Stork, and Zero because they are heavy slumpers.


Bisu, while he's been stomping in PL recently, hasn't really shown any results in individual leagues. It would be jumping the gun at this point to say he's back. I mean, he's definitely a solid A-class player regardless, but until he's shown his previous invincible mentality, I'm unconvinced.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ There are three kinds of people in the world: those who can count and those who can't.
Kibibit
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1551 Posts
November 08 2010 03:32 GMT
#170
On November 08 2010 10:19 jalstar wrote:

Kal (underdog vs Flash, fantasy, Jaedong, Calm, Horang2)

This made me giggle like a schoolgirl. incessantly at that.
R.I.P. 우정호 || Do probes dream of psionic sheep?
matjlav
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Germany2435 Posts
November 08 2010 03:47 GMT
#171
On November 08 2010 10:19 jalstar wrote:
I have a different definition for this. You have to look at a player's performance in relation to other players.

I propose that a player is S-class if no more than 2 players of each race are elo-favored against him.

So S-class now is:

Flash (no one favored against him)
Jaedong (only an underdog against Flash)
Kal (underdog vs Flash, fantasy, Jaedong, Calm, Horang2)

And fantasy is almost S-class (underdog vs Flash, Skyhigh, Jaedong, ZerO, Stork, BeSt, and Snow)


That criteria is kind of disproven by Kal's presence in that list... he's simply not S-class.

I would just stick with the overall consensus that S-class players "just are" S-class.
Conversion
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3308 Posts
November 08 2010 04:03 GMT
#172
if anything kal would be the S-class choker

-___- one too many games lost when he has the potential
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
November 08 2010 04:06 GMT
#173
On November 08 2010 12:47 matjlav wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2010 10:19 jalstar wrote:
I have a different definition for this. You have to look at a player's performance in relation to other players.

I propose that a player is S-class if no more than 2 players of each race are elo-favored against him.

So S-class now is:

Flash (no one favored against him)
Jaedong (only an underdog against Flash)
Kal (underdog vs Flash, fantasy, Jaedong, Calm, Horang2)

And fantasy is almost S-class (underdog vs Flash, Skyhigh, Jaedong, ZerO, Stork, BeSt, and Snow)


That criteria is kind of disproven by Kal's presence in that list... he's simply not S-class.

I would just stick with the overall consensus that S-class players "just are" S-class.


It is a pity that his criterion would work, if only Kal is not a huge choker. Kal has gone toe-toe- with Flash/Jaedong, many times building huge leads, only to lol it away.* So you need to add in a "massively elo-favored" against him requirement, as Kal's H2H with LeeSsang is really bad, which kind of ruins it.

*This used to apply to Bisu too in the past, but since Kal won against Bisu while he was slumping, the fear seems to have disappeared.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
zenMaster
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada761 Posts
November 08 2010 04:17 GMT
#174
Kal is S-class at choking.
xxpack09
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States2160 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-08 04:23:18
November 08 2010 04:21 GMT
#175
My definition:

S-class in one matchup = 2200 elo in that matchup

S-class = 2200 elo in all matchups

So:

Overall S-class:
Flash
Jaedong

vs T S-class
Skyhigh
Best
Snow
(Stork and Fanta are close)

vs Z S-class
Bisu
Light

vs P S-class
no one but F/J (though Fanta is close)

I think it's a decent definition
dRaW
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada5744 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-08 04:32:52
November 08 2010 04:30 GMT
#176
Yeah the only way that you can account for this is something of an ELO rating over the past year. As Stork WAS maybe S-Class, no way is he S-Class atm.

Also, I go by people who can take out potential other S classes in a bo5, namely someone like Fantasy. (He ALWAYS plays epic vs JD/Flash)

Current S-Class IMO: Flash/JD (or Super S Class) - Also the retired Effort
Potentials are Bisu/Fantasy... Not sure who else...

Lately: Stats+ForGG are playing decent, Soulkey is improving, Zero has potential but needs to get out of a PL only player. Similarly, all the Leta hate is unwarranted, he really has exceptional PL stats, however him and Sea alike need to get better results in individual leagues.
I don't need luck, luck is for noobs, good luck to you though
xxpack09
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States2160 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-08 04:34:14
November 08 2010 04:30 GMT
#177
Oh, and for A-class, lets use the same criteria but 2100 elo

Overall A-class:

(Effort)
Fantasy
Kal
Bisu
Free
Sea

vs T:
Stork
Zero
Leta
Iris
M18M (lol)
Roro
ForGG
Much
Mind
Light
Hiya
Hydra
Stats
Soulkey

vs Z:

Shine
ForGG
Movie
Midas
Ruby
Kwanro
Stork
Roro
Great

vs P:

Horang2
Calm
Shuttle
Zero
July (lolwut)
Leta
Jangbi
Hyuk
Pure
Iris
Really
(Best is close)

Also B-class could be 2050, and C-class 2000? Below 2000 doesn't really work well since a player can play one game and be 2000 in 2 matchups
dRaW
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada5744 Posts
November 08 2010 04:31 GMT
#178
On November 08 2010 12:02 Kimaker wrote:
Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Effort (if he was still playing)

Are all S class in my book. I look at them and EXPECT then to be able to ROFL-stomp any other players, excluding each other. Bisu I would have on that list, if not for his abysmal performance last season, but there's certainly no argument that Bisu was/has the potential to be S class again, and is looking to do just that given his recent tear.

Maybe:

Fantasy....maybe. I've never liked they guy, so I won't make a call because of my unnatural biases against his play.


Please check Stork, his performance was god awful himself.
I don't need luck, luck is for noobs, good luck to you though
RezChi
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada2368 Posts
November 08 2010 05:07 GMT
#179
Stork is beast, no matter what happens he is still the one most likely to beat Bisu, Flash, and Jaedong. He even recently destory JD with a rofl build.
Nitan
Profile Joined September 2008
United States3401 Posts
November 08 2010 06:28 GMT
#180
The best S class indicator is that you like the player. Your tastes are impeccable so it's inconceivable that a player you like is not S class, even if it's only S class in spirit.

That popular player that you don't like though? Totally not S class. He's just over hyped.
Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes.
Prev 1 7 8 9 10 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 56m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
LamboSC2 349
BRAT_OK 56
ROOTCatZ 6
Vindicta 3
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 32771
EffOrt 1011
ggaemo 356
Mini 335
Soulkey 213
firebathero 143
hero 101
Hyun 55
Aegong 29
Bale 21
[ Show more ]
GoRush 18
Dota 2
Gorgc8700
qojqva1632
Counter-Strike
allub1
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King100
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu549
Khaldor545
MindelVK12
Other Games
Grubby3570
Liquid`RaSZi1706
singsing1666
B2W.Neo1300
KnowMe329
RotterdaM268
crisheroes163
Hui .126
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1996
BasetradeTV192
StarCraft 2
angryscii 38
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 24 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH144
• musti20045 19
• LUISG 12
• Adnapsc2 11
• Reevou 6
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 40
• Airneanach39
• HerbMon 18
• RayReign 1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV613
League of Legends
• Jankos5685
• Nemesis3215
Other Games
• imaqtpie844
• Shiphtur198
Upcoming Events
BSL
56m
Replay Cast
5h 56m
Replay Cast
14h 56m
Afreeca Starleague
15h 56m
Light vs Calm
Royal vs Mind
Wardi Open
16h 56m
Monday Night Weeklies
21h 56m
OSC
1d 5h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 15h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 15h
Rush vs PianO
Flash vs Speed
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
BeSt vs Leta
Queen vs Jaedong
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
BSL
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-27
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
2026 Changsha Offline CUP
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
NationLESS Cup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
Escore Tournament S2: W1
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.